IGM: Moto Delays In Chips Mean New PBs In Late August?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
From Insanely Great Mac:

Quote:

Rumor: 1.33GHz PowerBook G4s Coming End of August? Delay Due to Motorola?

by Remy Davison, Insanely Great Mac

July 20th 2003



Apple is scheduled to deliver 1.33GHz, 1.25GHz and 1.13GHz PowerBook G4s at the end of August, MacBidouille reports from "highly reliable" sources. The reason for the delay is reportedly Motorola's inability to deliver sufficient quantities of its PowerPC 7457 chip.



Rumors these may be, but the details, if accurate, are tantalizing: FireWire 800 across the range of 12, 15 and 17" models; USB 2.0 for all models; 1.133Ghz 7457s for Mini-Me (PowerBook 12); 1.25GHz or 1.33GHz for the 15s, and 1.33GHz for the 17s. Interestingly, it's not clear whether there will be one or two 15" models in Apple's new line-up.



As for G5-based PowerBooks, the jury is still out, but February is apparently a possible release date. There is still reportedly a lot of work to do on the mobo, particularly the memory controller, which is problematic in terms of heat dissipation. For the PowerBook G5s, the microprocessor will apparently need to be manufactured using a 0.09 micron process.





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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Wow, new PB's held up by Moto's inability to ship CPU's? No way! Sadly, this rumor is too believable. Confirmed: Motorola staffed by incompetent idiots.



    The specs look decent for the new Powerbooks. I can see having two 15 inch models, since it has the best screen size for a laptop. I am more curious to see what the price of the new machines will be.
  • Reply 2 of 27
    Quote:

    Wow, new PB's held up by Moto's inability to ship CPU's? No way! Sadly, this rumor is too believable. Confirmed: Motorola staffed by incompetent idiots.







    Macobserver has a story about an interview whereby Apple/IBM top brass get soft balled by an interviewer. Regards G5 Powerbook and relationship with Moto'.



    Looks like we're stuck with Moto' for the near future. At least until early 04. In the meantime, it means no G5 for Powerbooks or iMac2 anytime soon. We could be talking this time next year before we see such products.



    Well into next year at the earliest.



    Late August for Powerbook revamp? Probably. 1.3 G4s probably don't look too bad against low mhz Centrinos.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 3 of 27
    I always seem to be in the ridiculous position of defending Moto, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the story is backwards. 7457 was due in Q4 of this year and the rumor (which I believe is from the Register) is that it has been moved UP.
  • Reply 4 of 27
    thttht Posts: 3,301member
    Motorola's own press release on the 7457 states that large quantities of 7457 CPUs will not be available until Q4 2003. Which means, after September. So, it's really not a surprise.



    What is a surprise is why Apple is not shipping a 1.33 GHz PPC 970 Powerbook in the very near future. The PowerMacs already do frequency cycling, and if they do voltage cycling along with frequency cycling, PPC 970's are more than ready for notebook usage. The benifits of a 7457 are very few compared to a 970, if any.
  • Reply 5 of 27
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BrunoBruin

    I always seem to be in the ridiculous position of defending Moto, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the story is backwards. 7457 was due in Q4 of this year and the rumor (which I believe is from the Register) is that it has been moved UP.



    That's true, but look at it this way. If you tell your customer you're going to do a job really slowly and you end up doing it only slightly less slowly, should you really be applauded for it? Granted they moved up production but really a processor like the 7457 should've been ready before now.
  • Reply 6 of 27
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Motorola's own press release on the 7457 states that large quantities of 7457 CPUs will not be available until Q4 2003. Which means, after September. So, it's really not a surprise.



    And I'm not counting on Motorola to meet any dates they have in a press release, why would Apple??



    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    What is a surprise is why Apple is not shipping a 1.33 GHz PPC 970 Powerbook in the very near future. The PowerMacs already do frequency cycling, and if they do voltage cycling along with frequency cycling, PPC 970's are more than ready for notebook usage. The benifits of a 7457 are very few compared to a 970, if any.



    This is the most vexing question. And I would add the iMac with a lower clocked G5 with the powerbook you listed. IBM probably wouldn't turn down the extra sales, in light of recent reports on their lower than anticipated demand for processors made at their Fishkill plant.
  • Reply 7 of 27
    philbyphilby Posts: 124member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

    1.3 G4s probably don't look too bad against low mhz Centrinos.



    With heavy emphasis on probably, too and low mhz.



    Looks like I'll have to keep using my soundless (broken MB) TiBook 800 for a while.
  • Reply 8 of 27
    cliveclive Posts: 720member
    I don't believe this rumour, or at least not in its entirety. I think it's very unlikely that Apple would put FW800 on the 12" PB.



    Seems to me that would require an additional port - space for which the 12" does not have - and a significantly revised motherboard.
  • Reply 9 of 27
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,535member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    ...

    What is a surprise is why Apple is not shipping a 1.33 GHz PPC 970 Powerbook in the very near future. The PowerMacs already do frequency cycling, and if they do voltage cycling along with frequency cycling, PPC 970's are more than ready for notebook usage. The benifits of a 7457 are very few compared to a 970, if any.




    The main benefit of the 7457 is that it uses less power.



    It is clear that the overall power consumption of a 970 based laptop (including the faster memory bus and peripheral chips) is much higher than that of a comparable G4 based laptop. My guess is we'll see g5 based laptops sometime next summer. (speculating)



    Apple could slow down the clock of the 970 to ease the power requirements. Perhaps they did the math and figured that the processing throughput left after trying that was too slow to be worth it.
  • Reply 10 of 27
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Delphiki

    Granted they moved up production but really a processor like the 7457 should've been ready before now.



    Nobody's arguing that, but I'm saying MacB is wrong if they think the reason we have no new PowerBooks is because Apple is waiting for chips from Moto that were due earlier. I really doubt Apple had any plans for revising the 12s or 17s before the fall anyway. The TiBooks were unveiled at MWSF too and didn't see their first rev until October.
  • Reply 11 of 27
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rickag

    IBM probably wouldn't turn down the extra sales, in light of recent reports on their lower than anticipated demand for processors made at their Fishkill plant.



    I think this, more than anything else, points to more G5s in more Apple products, and sooner. If IBM has extra capacity and cuts Apple a deal on prices, and if the rumors are true that Moto cancelled the 7457-RM...
  • Reply 12 of 27
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    Okay just release the 1.3 G4's...

    With the pent up demand for a new 15" (with all the updated features of the 12 & 17" models), I'm guessing it'll still perform and sell pretty well.
  • Reply 13 of 27
    taliesintaliesin Posts: 117member
    I think what is at issue is the 42w of power that the 970 draws. Battery life would be abyssmal. Apple wants to get some experience with this new chip and also wait for the smaller die sizes ibm will be producing in the not-tooo-distant future. The 7457 is a logical bridge to that goal.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    Quote:

    Originally posted by satchmo

    With the pent up demand for a new 15" (with all the updated features of the 12 & 17" models), I'm guessing it'll still perform and sell pretty well.



    I'll be buying one, whatever the hell it is, as long as it's a 7457.



    I wonder if Apple is dragging out the introduction to make us so exasperated that we won't care that they jack the prices up $300; we just buy anyway because we've been waiting so long!
  • Reply 15 of 27
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BrunoBruin

    Nobody's arguing that, but I'm saying MacB is wrong if they think the reason we have no new PowerBooks is because Apple is waiting for chips from Moto that were due earlier. I really doubt Apple had any plans for revising the 12s or 17s before the fall anyway. The TiBooks were unveiled at MWSF too and didn't see their first rev until October.



    Well, yes there was quite a bit of lag between the introduction of the Ti book and the first refresh of the Ti book. Of course at the time, Moto was trying to get some G4's that could go at a respectable speed. Moto was incapable of producing G4's at the time and I think that this is what caused the unexpected lag.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    macsrgood4umacsrgood4u Posts: 3,007member
    Clive,



    I seem to remember reading something about a dual use Firewire port. There would be an adapter so that it would also be 2.0 as well as the original. Anybody remember this?
  • Reply 17 of 27
    why is the middle speed on a 167 bus and the upper and lower ends on a 133 bus? Maybe its because its from a reliable source!Maybe its a 1.34,that would be 8x on a 167 bus.
  • Reply 18 of 27
    ensign pulverensign pulver Posts: 1,193member
    Oh good, another PowerBook thread. Now there are only 14 for me to wade through. Thanks!



    This IGM "rumor" is just the Mac Doobie rumor that's already been beaten to death in the other threads.



    Mods, help!
  • Reply 19 of 27
    ompusompus Posts: 163member
    Macbidouille talks about 1.33GHz, 1.25GHz and 1.13GHz g4s. This puzzles me.



    When I look at Motorola's information they give the following chip speeds for the "L" and "N" 1.3GHz, 1.2GHz, 1.067GHz, .933GHz and .867GHz. This covers the gamut, since we won't see the "P" version of the 7457 in the notebooks...they run too hot. Therefore, it seems safe to say that whatever speed bump we get out of the 7457 will be either 1.3GHz, 1.2GHz, 1.067GHz, .933GHz or .867GHz. And against that supposition... a rumour of forthcoming speeds of 1.33GHz, 1.25GHz and 1.13GHz seems dubious.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    thttht Posts: 3,301member
    I think the exclusion of the PowerPC 970 in the next Powerbooks because of heat dissipation and power consumption is just a convenient excuse for rumorologists hedging their bets. Most simply don't know and are looking at what is the most reasonable.



    IBM estimates a 1.1V 1.2 GHz PPC 970 has 19 Watts. The real numbers won't be more than 10% off that. If they are, someone is doing their math wrong. Really really wrong. Possible, but it's something I find really hard to believe. 19 Watts is a perfectly acceptable power consumption number for notebooks. Along with frequency cycling, which the PowerMac already does, I don't see anything holding it back. The key for a good notebook CPU is a combination of voltage cycling and frequency cycling, so hopefully the 970 will be able to do voltage cycling too (maybe it does, I don't know).



    Yes, this is higher power consumption than a 7457, but it's not that much higher, and will reduce power consumption by maybe 10% to 7457, but battery life may not even change compared to today's Powerbooks. The advantages of a 970 looks to be better performance and maybe even lower cost. 1 to 1.3 GHz PPC 970 chips may be even cheaper than 1 to 1.3 GHz 7457. Moto's press release says a 1 GHz 7457 will cost $180. It's really easy to believe a PPC 970 chips at the same clock as the 7457 would cost less than that.



    Maybe the best reason for not using it is because Apple simply didn't want to, or didn't have the resources, to design a Powerbook G5 system at the same time as the PowerMac G5. The more I think about it, PPC 970 systems at equivalent clock rates as 7457 systems make a whole more sense from a cost, performance and manufacturing standpoint.
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