Language Purity
I had been discussing France's various structures to protect their language from becoming too infiltrated by foreign words and I found myself unable to work up enough fervor to truly care either way.
However, there has been a certain change in my life that brought the question to bear against my own language (English, obviously).
While dating I always found the word "girlfriend" to describe her inadequate. After all, it was the same word used by my friends to refer to the girl they met during Spring Break and had been dating for a couple of months. Surely my 4-year relationship of rock-solid fidelity and commitment weighed more heavily than flings? Well I never got around that, and now I find myself with a new word I'm not comfortable with; "fiancé".
I am not necessarily averse to using a French word, as blustering and snobby as I am I feel no special need to protect my beloved language. Quite the contrary, as an American I know all too well what wonderful things come from cultural mixing. However there is an air. And I fully understand that the word is merely an intermediary for "wife" coming from "girlfriend", but I would like something better.
Unfortunately only one option has surfaced, and this from a conversation with my favorite grandfather. He said that his unit in WWII had a particular dislike of the French (Vichy cooperation with the Nazis, you know) and the group didn't like French words, so he had taken to calling my grandmother his "intended".
As much as I like the old-world formality and romanticized sense of obligation and commitment the word brings, it doesn't get around my main gripe with "fiancé"; it is too awkward.
Perhaps I am thinking too much of it and giving too much deference to my infatuation with my grandfather's relationship with my grandmother, which has withstood with shining strength the test of time. At 77 he beams with happiness at the mere mention of her name and tells anyone who will listen how she is the most wonderful woman in the world; and though she rolls her eyes her smile gives away how deep her love is as well. After living a life of people whining/griping about marriage and their wives/husbands (my parents and all my friends' parents), perhaps I will abandon the words they use and take up my grandfather's.
Will(does) anyone know what the hell I'm talking about?
However, there has been a certain change in my life that brought the question to bear against my own language (English, obviously).
While dating I always found the word "girlfriend" to describe her inadequate. After all, it was the same word used by my friends to refer to the girl they met during Spring Break and had been dating for a couple of months. Surely my 4-year relationship of rock-solid fidelity and commitment weighed more heavily than flings? Well I never got around that, and now I find myself with a new word I'm not comfortable with; "fiancé".
I am not necessarily averse to using a French word, as blustering and snobby as I am I feel no special need to protect my beloved language. Quite the contrary, as an American I know all too well what wonderful things come from cultural mixing. However there is an air. And I fully understand that the word is merely an intermediary for "wife" coming from "girlfriend", but I would like something better.
Unfortunately only one option has surfaced, and this from a conversation with my favorite grandfather. He said that his unit in WWII had a particular dislike of the French (Vichy cooperation with the Nazis, you know) and the group didn't like French words, so he had taken to calling my grandmother his "intended".
As much as I like the old-world formality and romanticized sense of obligation and commitment the word brings, it doesn't get around my main gripe with "fiancé"; it is too awkward.
Perhaps I am thinking too much of it and giving too much deference to my infatuation with my grandfather's relationship with my grandmother, which has withstood with shining strength the test of time. At 77 he beams with happiness at the mere mention of her name and tells anyone who will listen how she is the most wonderful woman in the world; and though she rolls her eyes her smile gives away how deep her love is as well. After living a life of people whining/griping about marriage and their wives/husbands (my parents and all my friends' parents), perhaps I will abandon the words they use and take up my grandfather's.
Will(does) anyone know what the hell I'm talking about?
Comments
But, I get you're point. I never felt too comfortable calling my g/f of 7 years (before we got engaged) my girlfriend. After a point, you know neither of you is going anywhere, but there was no word to describe that. "Intended" sounds a little too possessive to me (much like "husband" sounds), but the point is well taken.
(And I believe the pronunciation you're looking for is "homer-saxuals".)
Originally posted by groverat
Ah, even worse!
(And I believe the pronunciation you're looking for is "homer-saxuals".)
Mebbe that's how they say it down in Texas but up here, we civilized folk say homer-sexuals. Damn chicanos dirtyin'-up the language...
Anyway, what about "betrothed"?
edit: damn kitchen utensil beat me to it.
Originally posted by groverat
I had been discussing France's various structures to protect their language from becoming too infiltrated by foreign words and I found myself unable to work up enough fervor to truly care either way.
However, there has been a certain change in my life that brought the question to bear against my own language (English, obviously).
While dating I always found the word "girlfriend" to describe her inadequate. After all, it was the same word used by my friends to refer to the girl they met during Spring Break and had been dating for a couple of months. Surely my 4-year relationship of rock-solid fidelity and commitment weighed more heavily than flings? Well I never got around that, and now I find myself with a new word I'm not comfortable with; "fiancé".
I am not necessarily averse to using a French word, as blustering and snobby as I am I feel no special need to protect my beloved language. Quite the contrary, as an American I know all too well what wonderful things come from cultural mixing. However there is an air. And I fully understand that the word is merely an intermediary for "wife" coming from "girlfriend", but I would like something better.
Unfortunately only one option has surfaced, and this from a conversation with my favorite grandfather. He said that his unit in WWII had a particular dislike of the French (Vichy cooperation with the Nazis, you know) and the group didn't like French words, so he had taken to calling my grandmother his "intended".
As much as I like the old-world formality and romanticized sense of obligation and commitment the word brings, it doesn't get around my main gripe with "fiancé"; it is too awkward.
Perhaps I am thinking too much of it and giving too much deference to my infatuation with my grandfather's relationship with my grandmother, which has withstood with shining strength the test of time. At 77 he beams with happiness at the mere mention of her name and tells anyone who will listen how she is the most wonderful woman in the world; and though she rolls her eyes her smile gives away how deep her love is as well. After living a life of people whining/griping about marriage and their wives/husbands (my parents and all my friends' parents), perhaps I will abandon the words they use and take up my grandfather's.
Will(does) anyone know what the hell I'm talking about?
Just call her "the girl I tied up in the basement 4 years ago" or "the kidnapped" for short.
It's funny though, that I initially thought your post was going to be about the infiltration of non-English words into English in the modern, globally interconnected kind of world, in which case I was going to point out that English got pretty Frenchified for the 400 years after 1066. But since that's not what you were all about (you were instead on a much more interesting issue of a kind of semiotic inadequacy, I suppose), I won't point that out.
How does that joke go? English is the kind of language that beats up other languages in dark alleyways and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar.
Anyway. What I did with my now-wife was just not give her any kind of "title" at all. I'd just say "This is Shelley" if I was introducing her to someone.
Cheers
Scott
The important thing is to find a sweet name. Engaged remind me more legal issues, than anything romantic. Fiancée is more romantinc, but sounds a little old game.
When i make "Fiancaille" with the woman that is now my wife, it was a great family ceremony, where i offer her a ring. However i don't remember to have presented her at any moment as my Fiancée.
My advice, do not give any name while you present her, or just say it's "insert her first name" we are going to getting married. Or it's my beloved victim, or whatever you like.
Names have not really a big importance, what is important are your feelings.
Fiancée
Doesn't that make you the financer, as the old joke goes?
In German, girlfriend becomes "Freundin", which is also a just female friend. The distinction is in the context. It is similar in Italian (ragazzi), which also means "girl."
If you don't like "betrothed," and if you don't mind getting all touchy-feely, how 'bout soulmate? I find this transcends girlfriend and wife.
The "girl I tied up in the basement..." is awful— it's too long in formal introductions.
Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights
Doesn't that make you the financer, as the old joke goes?
In German, girlfriend becomes "Freundin", which is also a just female friend. The distinction is in the context. It is similar in Italian (ragazzi), which also means "girl."
If you don't like "betrothed," and if you don't mind getting all touchy-feely, how 'bout soulmate? I find this transcends girlfriend and wife.
The "girl I tied up in the basement..." is awful— it's too long in formal introductions.
Maybe he should introduce himself as the defendant and the girl as the plaintiff.
[i]Originally posted by torifile
Grover.......your woman is your fiancée, not fiancé.
Except when she's rich...then she can be your financier..
Originally posted by aquafire
Except when she's rich...then she can be your financier..
I've been gone too long... I can't even spell "financier."
[B]Doesn't that make you the financer, as the old joke goes?
In German, girlfriend becomes "Freundin", which is also a just female friend. The distinction is in the context. It is similar in Italian (ragazzi), which also means "girl."
Sorry but in Italian it's pretty similar to French = fidanzata-fiancee. ragazza/o (feminine-masculine) it's more similar to girlfriend.
When you say that a word comes from French you should think of it's origin: Latin.
And I'm sorry to tell that your language it's full of greek words too.
As intelligent people, we often overthink things, the labels we give the people we love most often, girlfriend, fiance, etc... But how we refer to someone is important, it is the language of it all, to bad I can't think of a word that encompasses friend, lover, companion and beloved all together.
I can't think of a word that encompasses friend, lover, companion and beloved all together.
bitch 4 life? Damn, that's three words.
Which is to indicate that I know what you're saying (not from experience, but it's not hard to imagine), but I have no suggestions. Any comfortable, widely-used word would probably be or get diluted like fiancée, since you can't really stop careless people from using it to describe their lesser relationships. Basically, anything common would be dragged down by common problems, and anything uncommon would suffer from the reasons why it is uncommon.
Originally posted by groverat
I find myself with a new word I'm not comfortable with; "fiancé".
I'm not sure you've adequately expressed your problem with fiancee. It means "the girl you're going to marry" (or more compactly "bride-to-be") which is what she is I assume, so the problem is where? Pronunciation? Putting the funny squiggle above the e in emails?
Maybe you want to give up trying to condense an entire human relationship into a single word.
Now if you were to say that the entire institution of marriage was devalued these days by the number of idiots getting wed on the spur of the moment (lasting less than week in some cases) and disrespecting the vows they solemnly(!) took from day 1 then I'd be on the same wavelength.
Originally posted by Scott
But wait. We need something between "girlfriend" and "betrothed".
butt buddy
Originally posted by LiquidR
Weren't the British trying to implement something similar for English, but found that the language was already too permeated by French and Latin influences? They would have to get rid of the word beef.
I want to say that there was some kind of language purity movement in the 19th century, but I'd have to check to be sure. I can only imagine that the development of the OED scared the Victorians half to death.
Cheers
Scott