I don't believe that you can seperate chip design from fab so easily.
From what I understand, chips need to be designed for manufacturability.
Just saying that Mot's design may actually have something to do with their fab problems, so having someone else fab them isn't necessarily a magic cure-all.
True, although IBM's relative success fabbing the original G4 seems to indicate that Moto's problems are significantly in the actual production stage.
Maybe Moto will just design newer G4's and outsource production to IBM's Fishkill plant. No, they're probably too stupid to do something sensible like that.
I'm really looking forward to the day when Steve gets up on stage and announces that Moto is no more, and then cusses them out (probably not going to happen either).
...or maybe it (Apple/MOT relationship) will come out if suit is ever filed with regards to MOT non-performance of contractural obligations whether implied or actually in writing (although I'd expect cash to exchange before the dirty laundry gets aired). (Note a "suit" is based solely on Stevies comment to one of the share holders at the last shareholder meeting when asked about Apple/MOT problems)
Source?, Sure! apple.com, can you find an apple product that is running >1GHz, that is not in PMac?. And how long has apple gleefuly remained at 1GHZ for the majority of its products. Oh yeah, Moto's doing a great job, everyone give them a round of applause!
I guess nobody here is applauding. But predicting the future from past is still a heurism. (Otherwise branch prediction or page replacement would be a piece of cake ) We all know how Mot has failed, no need to bring it up over and over again. Fact is that SPS Mot has to get their thing done or they're done. It seems to me that some here actually want Mot to fail as some kind of childish revenge. Get over it! What will Apple gain if Mot fails in comparison to what they gain when Mot succeeds? I well aware the Mot SPS has let down the mac fans but still I think everybody should hope that they get their act together and help the PPC to take the lead. Some forget that when Mot and IBM delivered the fastest CPUs Apple failed in delivering what the market wanted. Did you wish Apple to die at that time?
I would love that Motorola could get their G4 act together for the selfish reason that it would mean cheaper/faster G4 upgrades for my G4/400! For Apple a big stock of cool running 1.6 GHz G4 would be a big boost to their iMac/eMac and perhaps PB.
However I do find 1 GHz 970 by IBM more likely to be aviable than 1.6-1.8 GHz G4 by Motorola. We might even see the fabled 90nm 970 before we se G4s anyway near 2 GHz...
I guess nobody here is applauding. But predicting the future from past is still a heurism. (Otherwise branch prediction or page replacement would be a piece of cake ) We all know how Mot has failed, no need to bring it up over and over again. Fact is that SPS Mot has to get their thing done or they're done. It seems to me that some here actually want Mot to fail as some kind of childish revenge. Get over it! What will Apple gain if Mot fails in comparison to what they gain when Mot succeeds? I well aware the Mot SPS has let down the mac fans but still I think everybody should hope that they get their act together and help the PPC to take the lead. Some forget that when Mot and IBM delivered the fastest CPUs Apple failed in delivering what the market wanted. Did you wish Apple to die at that time?
End of Line
Firstly, UserTron nothing personal, I was directing my frustration at Moto not you. Hint: I have a vested interest in Apple's success!
I agree, its in our collective/apple's interest in seeing Moto succeed and get out better G4's. Particularly, when at least 50% (shipping units) of apple's product line depends on them!.
I for one would like to see great G4's in the Consumer range, now that we have great G5's in the key part of the PRO range. Im sure ive said this before but moto should be credited with great low power/high performance G4's when the powerbooks were announced in 2001, they are now well behind the performance curve, as well as I dont see any IBM chips that are comparable in power/performance today.
Firstly, UserTron nothing personal, I was directing my frustration at Moto not you. Hint: I have a vested interest in Apple's success!
I agree, its in our collective/apple's interest in seeing Moto succeed and get out better G4's. Particularly, when at least 50% (shipping units) of apple's product line depends on them!.
I for one would like to see great G4's in the Consumer range, now that we have great G5's in the key part of the PRO range. Im sure ive said this before but moto should be credited with great low power/high performance G4's when the powerbooks were announced in 2001, they are now well behind the performance curve, as well as I dont see any IBM chips that are comparable in power/performance today.
Nothing to be sorry about! Having a different opinion that mine is no crime (at least until I become ruler of world ). But seriously, I guess we agree a lot on this matter anyway.
...or maybe it (Apple/MOT relationship) will come out if suit is ever filed with regards to MOT non-performance of contractural obligations whether implied or actually in writing (although I'd expect cash to exchange before the dirty laundry gets aired). (Note a "suit" is based solely on Stevies comment to one of the share holders at the last shareholder meeting when asked about Apple/MOT problems)
Well that would be interesting. A real burn the bridges moment between Apple and Moto. My guess is that Moto didn't sign any contracts specifying yields. I would still be fine with Steve just saying in public (for ten to twenty minutes) what he really thinks about Moto. Heck, I would pay good money for such an event- kind of a moment of catharsis for all the Mac world. I would expect cash before Moto let Jobs verbally berate them. Moto has no self esteem, but they aren't into letting former customers trash them- it just looks bad.
I am not looking forward for SJ to use 4 letter words about Moto rola (that is two 4 letter words in it self )
The important thing is getting out of the G4 for all towers/iMac and eMACs ASAP. The plans are for a 1.6 GHz G4 next year! Hardly impressive as a single CPU desktop in 2004. Even a dual G4 iMac would be run over by a G5 iMac. The 7457 can be a good stop gap CPU. But to be that it has to come out pretty soon in large number while IBM work on the migration of the 970 to 90nm as it appears to have no hope of matching the performance of a dieshrunk 970...
Here Moto has an excellent opportunity to shoot them self in the foot (feet?) by having manufacturing problems with the 7457 something they have a proven trackrecord of
I am not looking forward for SJ to use 4 letter words about Moto rola (that is two 4 letter words in it self )
The important thing is getting out of the G4 for all towers/iMac and eMACs ASAP. The plans are for a 1.6 GHz G4 next year! Hardly impressive as a single CPU desktop in 2004. Even a dual G4 iMac would be run over by a G5 iMac. The 7457 can be a good stop gap CPU. But to be that it has to come out pretty soon in large number while IBM work on the migration of the 970 to 90nm as it appears to have no hope of matching the performance of a dieshrunk 970...
Here Moto has an excellent opportunity to shoot them self in the foot (feet?) by having manufacturing problems with the 7457 something they have a proven trackrecord of
Yea, Moto seems to be slipping again. Reports today indicate that the 7457 will come late this year, apparently due to process problems (and this is only at 130, not 90).
Yea, Moto seems to be slipping again. Reports today indicate that the 7457 will come late this year, apparently due to process problems (and this is only at 130, not 90).
Link? (not that I don't believe you- saying moto has slipped is like saying that the sky is blue).
Comments
Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe
I don't believe that you can seperate chip design from fab so easily.
From what I understand, chips need to be designed for manufacturability.
Just saying that Mot's design may actually have something to do with their fab problems, so having someone else fab them isn't necessarily a magic cure-all.
True, although IBM's relative success fabbing the original G4 seems to indicate that Moto's problems are significantly in the actual production stage.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Maybe Moto will just design newer G4's and outsource production to IBM's Fishkill plant. No, they're probably too stupid to do something sensible like that.
I'm really looking forward to the day when Steve gets up on stage and announces that Moto is no more, and then cusses them out (probably not going to happen either).
...or maybe it (Apple/MOT relationship) will come out if suit is ever filed with regards to MOT non-performance of contractural obligations whether implied or actually in writing (although I'd expect cash to exchange before the dirty laundry gets aired). (Note a "suit" is based solely on Stevies comment to one of the share holders at the last shareholder meeting when asked about Apple/MOT problems)
Originally posted by hasapi
Source?, Sure! apple.com, can you find an apple product that is running >1GHz, that is not in PMac?. And how long has apple gleefuly remained at 1GHZ for the majority of its products. Oh yeah, Moto's doing a great job, everyone give them a round of applause!
I guess nobody here is applauding. But predicting the future from past is still a heurism. (Otherwise branch prediction or page replacement would be a piece of cake
End of Line
However I do find 1 GHz 970 by IBM more likely to be aviable than 1.6-1.8 GHz G4 by Motorola. We might even see the fabled 90nm 970 before we se G4s anyway near 2 GHz...
Originally posted by User Tron
I guess nobody here is applauding. But predicting the future from past is still a heurism. (Otherwise branch prediction or page replacement would be a piece of cake
End of Line
Firstly, UserTron nothing personal, I was directing my frustration at Moto not you. Hint: I have a vested interest in Apple's success!
I agree, its in our collective/apple's interest in seeing Moto succeed and get out better G4's. Particularly, when at least 50% (shipping units) of apple's product line depends on them!.
I for one would like to see great G4's in the Consumer range, now that we have great G5's in the key part of the PRO range. Im sure ive said this before but moto should be credited with great low power/high performance G4's when the powerbooks were announced in 2001, they are now well behind the performance curve, as well as I dont see any IBM chips that are comparable in power/performance today.
Originally posted by hasapi
Firstly, UserTron nothing personal, I was directing my frustration at Moto not you. Hint: I have a vested interest in Apple's success!
I agree, its in our collective/apple's interest in seeing Moto succeed and get out better G4's. Particularly, when at least 50% (shipping units) of apple's product line depends on them!.
I for one would like to see great G4's in the Consumer range, now that we have great G5's in the key part of the PRO range. Im sure ive said this before but moto should be credited with great low power/high performance G4's when the powerbooks were announced in 2001, they are now well behind the performance curve, as well as I dont see any IBM chips that are comparable in power/performance today.
Nothing to be sorry about! Having a different opinion that mine is no crime (at least until I become ruler of world
End of Line
Originally posted by Bigc
...or maybe it (Apple/MOT relationship) will come out if suit is ever filed with regards to MOT non-performance of contractural obligations whether implied or actually in writing (although I'd expect cash to exchange before the dirty laundry gets aired). (Note a "suit" is based solely on Stevies comment to one of the share holders at the last shareholder meeting when asked about Apple/MOT problems)
Well that would be interesting. A real burn the bridges moment between Apple and Moto. My guess is that Moto didn't sign any contracts specifying yields. I would still be fine with Steve just saying in public (for ten to twenty minutes) what he really thinks about Moto. Heck, I would pay good money for such an event- kind of a moment of catharsis for all the Mac world. I would expect cash before Moto let Jobs verbally berate them. Moto has no self esteem, but they aren't into letting former customers trash them- it just looks bad.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
I would still be fine with Steve just saying in public (for ten to twenty minutes) what he really thinks about Moto.
Ha! It will go down in history as the first internet stream with 'bleeps'. A Colin Farrell interview will seem like talking to the Pope in comparison.
The important thing is getting out of the G4 for all towers/iMac and eMACs ASAP. The plans are for a 1.6 GHz G4 next year! Hardly impressive as a single CPU desktop in 2004. Even a dual G4 iMac would be run over by a G5 iMac. The 7457 can be a good stop gap CPU. But to be that it has to come out pretty soon in large number while IBM work on the migration of the 970 to 90nm as it appears to have no hope of matching the performance of a dieshrunk 970...
Here Moto has an excellent opportunity to shoot them self in the foot (feet?) by having manufacturing problems with the 7457 something they have a proven trackrecord of
Originally posted by DrBoar
I am not looking forward for SJ to use 4 letter words about Moto rola (that is two 4 letter words in it self
The important thing is getting out of the G4 for all towers/iMac and eMACs ASAP. The plans are for a 1.6 GHz G4 next year! Hardly impressive as a single CPU desktop in 2004. Even a dual G4 iMac would be run over by a G5 iMac. The 7457 can be a good stop gap CPU. But to be that it has to come out pretty soon in large number while IBM work on the migration of the 970 to 90nm as it appears to have no hope of matching the performance of a dieshrunk 970...
Here Moto has an excellent opportunity to shoot them self in the foot (feet?) by having manufacturing problems with the 7457 something they have a proven trackrecord of
Yea, Moto seems to be slipping again. Reports today indicate that the 7457 will come late this year, apparently due to process problems (and this is only at 130, not 90).
Originally posted by RBR
Yea, Moto seems to be slipping again. Reports today indicate that the 7457 will come late this year, apparently due to process problems (and this is only at 130, not 90).
Link? (not that I don't believe you- saying moto has slipped is like saying that the sky is blue).