Unfortunately the states with public schools that rival private offerings are few.... California, Virginia, Michigan..... Pennsylvania maybe. What else... Washington?
North Carolina. Having been out of undergrad for a few years, the answer really is: it depends. If you're not going to continue on and get some sort of a graduate degree, than it MAY matter for a job early in your career. If you're getting a graduate degree, no one gives a rat's ass where you got your undergrad degree from. Seriously. It's an afterthought. So, think seriously about your plan post-graduation.
As far as the "college experience" goes, I'd have to say that the name means nothing. I'm a UNC grad. I loved UNC. I learned a lot in my classes, but the academic climate was AMAZING. Lots of activism on all sorts of issues, political discussion, outspoken stances on controversial issues, etc. Dook, where I was last year for my year internship, has a very different academic climate. Yes, it's academic, but there's no activism or even a sense that anyone cares. The Chronicle (Dook's paper) was a nice rehashing of mainstream republican ideas. Not that being conservative is necessarily a bad thing, but it was the UTTER LACK OF any sort of new thinking that was depressing.
Many private schools also have an isolationist attitude towards their surrounding communities (someone mentioned Princeton - Dook's the same way). Durham is a cesspool. Dook is completely cut off from the community. If Dook students want to go out, they go to Chapel Hill and hang out at UNC's places.
If you want to be a snob and feel entitled, then spending big bucks on a private school is for you. If you want to learn something about life, look a little more closely at where you go.
If you want to be a snob and feel entitled, then spending big bucks on a private school is for you. If you want to learn something about life, look a little more closely at where you go.
i dont really like that generalization. especially considering out of state tuition is often times more than a private university's tuition when all is said and done.
i dont really like that generalization. especially considering out of state tuition is often times more than a private university's tuition when all is said and done.
it was for me
I didn't mean it to be a generalization. I was saying that if being a snob is for you, then you should go to a private school without thinking twice about it. BUT if you want something deeper, you may be able to find it someplace else, so think about your other options. But you may also still end up at a private school, and that's perfectly fine. I know that not everyone at private school are snobs.
Unfortunately the states with public schools that rival private offerings are few.... California, Virginia, Michigan..... Pennsylvania maybe. What else... Washington?
...
Funny you should mention those states. I went to school in Virginia (fyi UVA and W&M are under the state system and cost the same in state as VaTech and others). I might add Illinois to that list too, went to grad school in that state ...private. UIUC is a great school and the others are good as well. Right now I'm working at UofM. I guess I stick to the states with good pubic schools
Except the admissions committees at the grad schools.
I guess it depends on what program you're trying to get into. MBA is probably a different ball of wax than, say, art. For me, the admissions committee really came down to my major professor saying he wanted me. Sure, going to Podunk Tech won't get you into a good grad school, but going to a middle of the road public school won't keep you out, either.
i hate to tell you but the majority of private school students get financial aid.
public schools are where middle income families get hurt with financial aid but luckily they are cheap as it is when you are in state. I wasn't in state for any of the public universities I applied to and well..... let's just say tuition aint too pretty.
one of my best friend's family makes around 40k with 6 jobs and he still doesnt get financial aid. he goes to duke university now too.
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college? and it has nothing to do with grades or not graduating high school....its all based on the financial aspect. thats pretty f-ed up if you ask me...shows that the system doesnt work huh?
i dont go to school anymore....was a waste of my time and money. some people gotta pay for they ish themselves, and im not about to do that.
college is overrated. it may be for some depending on what you wanna do with your life but definitely not for me. i hate how people act like going to college for half they life is the only way you gonna succeed in life.
okay, i know that subject line is pretty open-ended, but something's been bugging me lately. namely, the ridiculous costs associated with some universities, and how their admins state that their education "is worth it." on headline news today, they were saying that at present escalation, a 4-year degree at harvard, including housing, fees, etc. will cost about a QUARTER-MILLION DOLLARS in about 18 years.
now, i went to tulane university, a private university in new orleans, mostly because i had a full scholarship and the locale was more interesting and a culture deeper than anywhere else i was looking at. for those who don't know, tulane is also one of the most expensive private universities anywhere, even over ivy leagues. so i was dirt-poor, but managed to go (though i am still paying TONS of loans back for everything that scholarship didn't cover). was the education worth it? was it any better than, say, university of florida, where i could have gone for almost free since i was a florida resident at the time??? am i any smarter or better prepared for life with a different name on a college diploma that no one has asked to see since 1996???
and i got in because i was stupid poor, and got the scholarships. i went to class with a lot of kids who were only there to get drunk and screw for four straight years because their parents were rich enough to pay for it. but what about those middle income families, not poor enough for scholarships, but not rich enough to pay it out-of-pocket. and while people are probably earning more on average than they were ten years ago (maybe not), i have to think that college costs are far outpacing the increase of cash in the public sector.
anyway, i don't regret having gone where i did, as i met my wife there and made many good friends, and can say that i lived in new orleans for four years and really feel at home in this area. but there are a lot of conflicting issues with this topic in my head, but i just don't see why education is something that people have to pay through the nose for.
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college? and it has nothing to do with grades or not graduating high school....its all based on the financial aspect.
No, the biggest problem I've seen is that lower class students are not given enough information about how to get school paid for. There are a bazzillion ways to get school paid for. If nothing else, try for a year to get a job at a university and get ~85% off tuition.
Quote:
i dont go to school anymore....was a waste of my time and money. some people gotta pay for they ish themselves, and im not about to do that.
college is overrated. it may be for some depending on what you wanna do with your life but definitely not for me. i hate how people act like going to college for half they life is the only way you gonna succeed in life.
You seem sore about it. Take some time off, but I can't think of a single job that someone in my social group holds that doesn't require a good college degree, and most of the time in a specific field. You wouldn't even be able to get the jobs of their employees. For example, a job equivalent to mine in another department was recently open and had ~130 applicants. The person that got it had 15 years of work experience, but there would be no way in hell he would have gotten the job without a undergrad degree. Hell, it was a huge deal that my boss didn't have the right kind of masters degree when she was hired a year ago.
I have a very good college education and am going for a graduate degree. I used to think school was BS, too. That was until I started taking it seriously and realizing the oportunities it provided.
That's more or less my perspective -- professional sector. Your degree follows you around in those areas.
Quote:
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college?
The financial situation is typically figured out after you've been accepted to the college. Most private universities are need-blind for admissions. Once you're in, then they try to figure out what you can afford to pay, what they can afford to give, where other sources are to make up the difference, what other incentives they can give you to go there if they want you that much, etc.
None of this is simple stuff. There are no hard and fast rules about who gets what, and whether everyone gets the same deals or not. Few can afford the full cost of college, so even well-off families need help. A lot of low-income families can't afford college even with help. Same is true for middle-income families.
No, the biggest problem I've seen is that lower class students are not given enough information about how to get school paid for. There are a bazzillion ways to get school paid for. If nothing else, try for a year to get a job at a university and get ~85% off tuition.
You seem sore about it. Take some time off, but I can't think of a single job that someone in my social group holds that doesn't require a good college degree, and most of the time in a specific field. You wouldn't even be able to get the jobs of their employees. For example, a job equivalent to mine in another department was recently open and had ~130 applicants. The person that got it had 15 years of work experience, but there would be no way in hell he would have gotten the job without a undergrad degree. Hell, it was a huge deal that my boss didn't have the right kind of masters degree when she was hired a year ago.
I have a very good college education and am going for a graduate degree. I used to think school was BS, too. That was until I started taking it seriously and realizing the oportunities it provided.
what makes you think that? its my decision whether or not i wanna go back to school. who are you to say that im sore about it or what is for me? while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
what makes you think that? its my decision whether or not i wanna go back to school. who are you to say that im sore about it or what is for me? while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
what would a music producer want with college?
Perhaps to be able to write in proper English? (of course, English doesn't really matter)
Anyways I'm attending Carnegie Mellon Univ for engineering (private) and have to pay 60% of the $40k. We seem to be able to pay and are trying not to get unsubsidized loans; we are not rich either, just a lot of careful planning took place. Education is excellent and hopefully will show when I'm off to find a job, though I'm probably going to attempt a doctoral degree first.
I think the question could better be phased, "is education worth the expense?" It's time and money. Getting something worthwhile out of college or whatever has a bunch of aspects to it, only one of which is the tuition bill.
Motivated students really max'ing out what the school has to offer get the most out of college. Similarly, great colleges and universities have depth and accessibility which translate into opportunities for their students. This combination can be found in a lot of environments, public and private, but it's usually, to my mind, not cheap.
That being said, colleges can't be ranked by their price tags, even if we do live in a society where a large segment of people believe paying more for something denotes it is more valuable. But it means the reverse is also true: the cheapest degree is not automatically equivalent to other degrees with the same name.
Nothing is more important than taking charge of your education by being direct and involved with what you learn and for what reason. Good schools can help with this. Great schools have a reputation for this, which, to my mind, is worth paying for.
A note on snobbery: it exists and it's real (though how real it is varies greatly across the country). There can be, in many people's minds, a hierarchy with degree granting institutions, and they're not going to be as comfortable evaluating candidates from schools they've never heard of. It isn't that important, but at the same time we shouldn't pretend some people (often in positions of power over us) don't think this way.
The financial situation is typically figured out after you've been accepted to the college. Most private universities are need-blind for admissions. Once you're in, then they try to figure out what you can afford to pay, what they can afford to give, where other sources are to make up the difference, what other incentives they can give you to go there if they want you that much, etc.
That's naive talk Yes, admission tend to be need-blind. But they are NOT donation blind. If your family is a benefactor of a private institution, or has the potential to be a benefactor, guess what? Your chances of getting in just shot up. And because poor families don't generally have the means to be making substantial donations.... well, you get the point.
That's a 100% true. Or at least used to be. One of my prof's when I was in undergrad married someone from the admissions office at Princeton. High on the list was "the potential for you or your parents to donate money to the university". That was years ago. But it's a private university so they can do just about anything they want. Plus if they get two poor kids in off of letting one rich kid in who's hurt in the end?
The worth of your schooling depends entirely on what happens later. If you need handholding, one-on-one sessions with profs, etc. to get through college, then any price is better falling by the wayside in a supersized public school where you compete with 500+ other students in every lecture.
while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
So you're young. Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
Quote:
what would a music producer want with college?
Maybe to get a real job. Anyone that calls themselves a music producer and talks like above hasn't gotten too far in it and probably won't.
Maybe if you went to school someone would clue you into what you need to do to actually survive in the business and make enough money to actually raise kids. Here's a hint: jump in some cold water and wake up.
Comments
Originally posted by applenut
Unfortunately the states with public schools that rival private offerings are few.... California, Virginia, Michigan..... Pennsylvania maybe. What else... Washington?
North Carolina. Having been out of undergrad for a few years, the answer really is: it depends. If you're not going to continue on and get some sort of a graduate degree, than it MAY matter for a job early in your career. If you're getting a graduate degree, no one gives a rat's ass where you got your undergrad degree from. Seriously. It's an afterthought. So, think seriously about your plan post-graduation.
As far as the "college experience" goes, I'd have to say that the name means nothing. I'm a UNC grad. I loved UNC. I learned a lot in my classes, but the academic climate was AMAZING. Lots of activism on all sorts of issues, political discussion, outspoken stances on controversial issues, etc. Dook, where I was last year for my year internship, has a very different academic climate. Yes, it's academic, but there's no activism or even a sense that anyone cares. The Chronicle (Dook's paper) was a nice rehashing of mainstream republican ideas. Not that being conservative is necessarily a bad thing, but it was the UTTER LACK OF any sort of new thinking that was depressing.
Many private schools also have an isolationist attitude towards their surrounding communities (someone mentioned Princeton - Dook's the same way). Durham is a cesspool. Dook is completely cut off from the community. If Dook students want to go out, they go to Chapel Hill and hang out at UNC's places.
If you want to be a snob and feel entitled, then spending big bucks on a private school is for you. If you want to learn something about life, look a little more closely at where you go.
Originally posted by torifile
If you want to be a snob and feel entitled, then spending big bucks on a private school is for you. If you want to learn something about life, look a little more closely at where you go.
i dont really like that generalization. especially considering out of state tuition is often times more than a private university's tuition when all is said and done.
it was for me
Originally posted by applenut
i dont really like that generalization. especially considering out of state tuition is often times more than a private university's tuition when all is said and done.
it was for me
I didn't mean it to be a generalization. I was saying that if being a snob is for you, then you should go to a private school without thinking twice about it. BUT if you want something deeper, you may be able to find it someplace else, so think about your other options. But you may also still end up at a private school, and that's perfectly fine. I know that not everyone at private school are snobs.
just out of curiousity.... who goes to private and who goes to public here?
If i had to guess id say we have more private schoolers here
Originally posted by applenut
Unfortunately the states with public schools that rival private offerings are few.... California, Virginia, Michigan..... Pennsylvania maybe. What else... Washington?
...
Funny you should mention those states. I went to school in Virginia (fyi UVA and W&M are under the state system and cost the same in state as VaTech and others). I might add Illinois to that list too, went to grad school in that state ...private. UIUC is a great school and the others are good as well. Right now I'm working at UofM. I guess I stick to the states with good pubic schools
Originally posted by torifile
If you're getting a graduate degree, no one gives a rat's ass where you got your undergrad degree from. Seriously. It's an afterthought.
Except the admissions committees at the grad schools.
Originally posted by BRussell
Except the admissions committees at the grad schools.
I guess it depends on what program you're trying to get into. MBA is probably a different ball of wax than, say, art. For me, the admissions committee really came down to my major professor saying he wanted me. Sure, going to Podunk Tech won't get you into a good grad school, but going to a middle of the road public school won't keep you out, either.
Originally posted by applenut
um... where do you go?
i hate to tell you but the majority of private school students get financial aid.
public schools are where middle income families get hurt with financial aid but luckily they are cheap as it is when you are in state. I wasn't in state for any of the public universities I applied to and well..... let's just say tuition aint too pretty.
one of my best friend's family makes around 40k with 6 jobs and he still doesnt get financial aid. he goes to duke university now too.
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college? and it has nothing to do with grades or not graduating high school....its all based on the financial aspect. thats pretty f-ed up if you ask me...shows that the system doesnt work huh?
i dont go to school anymore....was a waste of my time and money. some people gotta pay for they ish themselves, and im not about to do that.
college is overrated. it may be for some depending on what you wanna do with your life but definitely not for me. i hate how people act like going to college for half they life is the only way you gonna succeed in life.
Originally posted by rok
okay, i know that subject line is pretty open-ended, but something's been bugging me lately. namely, the ridiculous costs associated with some universities, and how their admins state that their education "is worth it." on headline news today, they were saying that at present escalation, a 4-year degree at harvard, including housing, fees, etc. will cost about a QUARTER-MILLION DOLLARS in about 18 years.
now, i went to tulane university, a private university in new orleans, mostly because i had a full scholarship and the locale was more interesting and a culture deeper than anywhere else i was looking at. for those who don't know, tulane is also one of the most expensive private universities anywhere, even over ivy leagues. so i was dirt-poor, but managed to go (though i am still paying TONS of loans back for everything that scholarship didn't cover). was the education worth it? was it any better than, say, university of florida, where i could have gone for almost free since i was a florida resident at the time??? am i any smarter or better prepared for life with a different name on a college diploma that no one has asked to see since 1996???
and i got in because i was stupid poor, and got the scholarships. i went to class with a lot of kids who were only there to get drunk and screw for four straight years because their parents were rich enough to pay for it. but what about those middle income families, not poor enough for scholarships, but not rich enough to pay it out-of-pocket. and while people are probably earning more on average than they were ten years ago (maybe not), i have to think that college costs are far outpacing the increase of cash in the public sector.
anyway, i don't regret having gone where i did, as i met my wife there and made many good friends, and can say that i lived in new orleans for four years and really feel at home in this area. but there are a lot of conflicting issues with this topic in my head, but i just don't see why education is something that people have to pay through the nose for.
Only worth it if you become lawyer or doctor
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college? and it has nothing to do with grades or not graduating high school....its all based on the financial aspect.
No, the biggest problem I've seen is that lower class students are not given enough information about how to get school paid for. There are a bazzillion ways to get school paid for. If nothing else, try for a year to get a job at a university and get ~85% off tuition.
i dont go to school anymore....was a waste of my time and money. some people gotta pay for they ish themselves, and im not about to do that.
college is overrated. it may be for some depending on what you wanna do with your life but definitely not for me. i hate how people act like going to college for half they life is the only way you gonna succeed in life.
You seem sore about it. Take some time off, but I can't think of a single job that someone in my social group holds that doesn't require a good college degree, and most of the time in a specific field. You wouldn't even be able to get the jobs of their employees. For example, a job equivalent to mine in another department was recently open and had ~130 applicants. The person that got it had 15 years of work experience, but there would be no way in hell he would have gotten the job without a undergrad degree. Hell, it was a huge deal that my boss didn't have the right kind of masters degree when she was hired a year ago.
I have a very good college education and am going for a graduate degree. I used to think school was BS, too. That was until I started taking it seriously and realizing the oportunities it provided.
Originally posted by JRC
Only worth it if you become lawyer or doctor
That's more or less my perspective -- professional sector. Your degree follows you around in those areas.
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
you tellin me that upper class fools can get financial aids, assistance, loans, for college or private schools yet only a couple families on the block i grew up on can actually go to college?
The financial situation is typically figured out after you've been accepted to the college. Most private universities are need-blind for admissions. Once you're in, then they try to figure out what you can afford to pay, what they can afford to give, where other sources are to make up the difference, what other incentives they can give you to go there if they want you that much, etc.
None of this is simple stuff. There are no hard and fast rules about who gets what, and whether everyone gets the same deals or not. Few can afford the full cost of college, so even well-off families need help. A lot of low-income families can't afford college even with help. Same is true for middle-income families.
Originally posted by giant
No, the biggest problem I've seen is that lower class students are not given enough information about how to get school paid for. There are a bazzillion ways to get school paid for. If nothing else, try for a year to get a job at a university and get ~85% off tuition.
You seem sore about it. Take some time off, but I can't think of a single job that someone in my social group holds that doesn't require a good college degree, and most of the time in a specific field. You wouldn't even be able to get the jobs of their employees. For example, a job equivalent to mine in another department was recently open and had ~130 applicants. The person that got it had 15 years of work experience, but there would be no way in hell he would have gotten the job without a undergrad degree. Hell, it was a huge deal that my boss didn't have the right kind of masters degree when she was hired a year ago.
I have a very good college education and am going for a graduate degree. I used to think school was BS, too. That was until I started taking it seriously and realizing the oportunities it provided.
what makes you think that? its my decision whether or not i wanna go back to school. who are you to say that im sore about it or what is for me? while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
what would a music producer want with college?
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
what makes you think that? its my decision whether or not i wanna go back to school. who are you to say that im sore about it or what is for me? while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
what would a music producer want with college?
Perhaps to be able to write in proper English?
Anyways I'm attending Carnegie Mellon Univ for engineering (private) and have to pay 60% of the $40k. We seem to be able to pay and are trying not to get unsubsidized loans; we are not rich either, just a lot of careful planning took place. Education is excellent and hopefully will show when I'm off to find a job, though I'm probably going to attempt a doctoral degree first.
Is an expensive education worth it???
I think the question could better be phased, "is education worth the expense?" It's time and money. Getting something worthwhile out of college or whatever has a bunch of aspects to it, only one of which is the tuition bill.
Motivated students really max'ing out what the school has to offer get the most out of college. Similarly, great colleges and universities have depth and accessibility which translate into opportunities for their students. This combination can be found in a lot of environments, public and private, but it's usually, to my mind, not cheap.
That being said, colleges can't be ranked by their price tags, even if we do live in a society where a large segment of people believe paying more for something denotes it is more valuable. But it means the reverse is also true: the cheapest degree is not automatically equivalent to other degrees with the same name.
Nothing is more important than taking charge of your education by being direct and involved with what you learn and for what reason. Good schools can help with this. Great schools have a reputation for this, which, to my mind, is worth paying for.
A note on snobbery: it exists and it's real (though how real it is varies greatly across the country). There can be, in many people's minds, a hierarchy with degree granting institutions, and they're not going to be as comfortable evaluating candidates from schools they've never heard of. It isn't that important, but at the same time we shouldn't pretend some people (often in positions of power over us) don't think this way.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
The financial situation is typically figured out after you've been accepted to the college. Most private universities are need-blind for admissions. Once you're in, then they try to figure out what you can afford to pay, what they can afford to give, where other sources are to make up the difference, what other incentives they can give you to go there if they want you that much, etc.
That's naive talk
As long as you're satisfied...
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
while all yall college cats are busy tryin to balance school and payin off loans and spendin hundreds of dollars on text books i will be happily doin my thing and makin it on my own.
So you're young. Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
what would a music producer want with college?
Maybe to get a real job. Anyone that calls themselves a music producer and talks like above hasn't gotten too far in it and probably won't.
Maybe if you went to school someone would clue you into what you need to do to actually survive in the business and make enough money to actually raise kids. Here's a hint: jump in some cold water and wake up.
TALENT WILL NOT:
NOTHING IS MORE COMMON THAN UNSUCCESSFUL PEOPLE WITH TALENT.
GENIUS WILL NOT:
UNREWARDED GENIUS IS ALMOST A PROVERB.
EDUCATION WILL NOT:
THE WORLD IS FULL OF EDUCATED DERELICTS.
PERSISTENCE & DETERMINATION ALONE ARE OMNIPOTENT..
PRESIDENT CALVIN COOLIDGE