Apple's Future Linux Killing Hardware

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
While checking the latest market news on Apple I found this article?



<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20030122/bs_nf/20535"; target="_blank">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20030122/bs_nf/20535</a>;



Basically it says Linux will continue to gain market share while Apple will fade away. The main argument the author uses is:



"Hardware is always the millstone that sinks Macintosh. Someone decided that if you want Macintosh, you have to buy an expensive Apple computer. It may have been the single worst business decision in tech history (closely followed by the merger of AOL and Time Warner).



But Linux works on any old box. And all those old PCs that people leave laying around after they've bought a newer, faster one? 'Hey, let's try this new Linux thing on that Dell in the basement.'"



What is Apple to do? Should/could Apple sell at Wal-Mart as well? They could still have their awesome product line as we know it today, but something for the masses as well. That way Linux doesn't take away Macintosh developers because we all know company's like Adobe will always support Windows.



Food for thought...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Jesus H. Christ. Do these analysts consider for a minute that different business models can be sucessful?



    The one thing that keeps the Mac alive is that it IS tied to hardware. People buy Macs not as $1000 typewriters, but as empowerment tools. Empowerment tools that PCs, even linux, cannot match in the consumer arena.



    What good would a Mac without FireWire, Ethernet, and a crappy G3 be??? No good. Goddamned 3rd golden age of computers. Digital Hub. The times may have changed, but the analysts haven't.



    Barto
  • Reply 2 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,129member
    God. The Internet has made it far too easy to write...even under the absence of talent.



    [quote] Linux has never had a reputation for ease of use. For example, when you install drivers on some Linux desktops, you may need to "recompile the kernel" to get your hardware working. That's frightening.



    Score one for Macintosh

    <hr></blockquote>



    NSS! Hell score two for Apple. Linux can't even match Windows in UI. Basic tasks can easily become ordeals. This one isn't even close. Apple winds this round 10/8 on a knockdown.



    [quote] But Linux works on any old box. And all those old PCs that people leave laying around after they've bought a newer, faster one? "Hey, let's try this new Linux thing on that Dell in the basement."



    Score one for Linux.

    <hr></blockquote>



    Geez that would be great but the object is to sell product. Linux can be downloaded free in many cases so linux is as beholden to new hardware sales as Apple and Microsoft. The fact that linux can run on old hardware means nothing. I can get System 7.6 free from Apple for my old machines. Linux 0



    [quote] Open source software's lack of industry-standard applications is a mega hurdle. And I don't see Microsoft welcoming Linux into the fold by releasing Word for Linux. That's like Rome welcoming the barbarians.



    Score one for Macintosh.

    <hr></blockquote>



    This is another 10/8 round. Gimp vs Photoshop?? Abiword vs Word..get real. Linux is far behind the 8ball. How many linux apps are we envious over? I can't think of one. iLife alone is superior to what ships on ANY linux distro.



    [quote] Apple will never be embraced by the corporate desktop market. It's not cost effective (see hardware section).



    Score one for Linux

    <hr></blockquote>



    I agree here. However Linux will remain a backoffice tool. The companies that can run Linux Desktop are probably the same that existed running DOS for so many years. No suprise.



    [quote] Although both OSes have pluses, some pluses are more important than others. Microsoft is the big dog because it understood that cost is king. Its OS can be used on any number of PCs, so it's a lot cheaper than Apple's <hr></blockquote>



    No Microsoft is the Big Dog because IBM was stuck in a mindset the Mainframes would remain viable much longer than they were in reality. IBM never saw the incredible potential of computers in our society and ended up making probably the largest gaffe in computer history by letting Microsoft sow up the OS rights and gain critical mass. The proverbial "Goose that lays Golden Eggs" Microsoft took it and ran.



    [quote] Linux is not hampered by this. So while Mac is currently the number two desktop OS, Linux will take its place -- probably within the next two years <hr></blockquote>



    But Mac users can also be Linux users. Hell I could run multiple distros. Linux can be downloaded for free. The fact that it's not already #1 points to the fact that it is truly YEARS away from being a threat on the Desktop. Lindows won't change that any quicker.



    [quote] But before Linux surpasses Mac OS, someone will need to create a Linux desktop that tech reviewers describe as "blindingly easy to use, and really no different than Windows." Considering the size of the market, there's considerable incentive to do so.



    <hr></blockquote>



    Well get to programming because linux has a LONG way to go. With OSX we have the vaunted Linux stability but we have a plethora of tools and apps that linux doesn't have. Linux was the 90's hype. It's great for people wanting to save a few bucks on a server but Apple is bed with BSD and it's every bit as good as Linux. I guess I'll just let the linux fanboys carp and continue to get things done with my "now 3rd rate OS" LOL
  • Reply 3 of 31
    cubecube Posts: 142member
    Im sitting on a linux system right now... Redhat 8.

    My first linux, had to eskape from windows... im goda swits to mac now



    but it looks nise. and is quite easy to use, exept fore instaling. som times i can figuer it out, and other thimes i have no clue.



    But the bigest flaw so far is that it dosent have Quick time... not eavern windows media player. This is not good fore the consumer market, thats my opinion. Its actualy quite anoying! And it dosent suport that mutsh hardware, like my printer... this is wy i cant use linux full tilme <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



    But its realy stable and newer chrashes, unlike windows. and its easy to use moustly.



    [ 01-25-2003: Message edited by: Cube ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 31
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    I don't pay attention to anything from OSOpinion/Newsfactor, or people like Rob Black on C|Net Radio who'd like to believe Apple is already dead.
  • Reply 5 of 31
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    "Microsoft is the big dog because it understood that cost is king. Its OS can be used on any number of PCs, so it's a lot cheaper than Apple's"



    Ah, so MacOS X 10.2 is more expensive than XP Pro. I see. Stupid people should be forbidden access to computers and the net in general.
  • Reply 6 of 31
    [quote]Originally posted by Cube:

    <strong>Im sitting on a linux system right now... Redhat 8.

    My first linux, had to eskape from windows... im goda swits to mac now



    but it looks nise. and is quite easy to use, exept fore instaling. som times i can figuer it out, and other thimes i have no clue.



    But the bigest flaw so far is that it dosent have Quick time... not eavern windows media player. This is not good fore the consumer market, thats my opinion. Its actualy quite anoying! And it dosent suport that mutsh hardware, like my printer... this is wy i cant use linux full tilme <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



    But its realy stable and newer chrashes, unlike windows. and its easy to use moustly.



    [ 01-25-2003: Message edited by: Cube ]</strong><hr></blockquote>





    please tell me that english is your second language or that you intentionally created new words and mauled dozens of others for dramatic effect. your post was nearly unreadable. perhaps you should invest in a low-tech dictionary?
  • Reply 7 of 31
    crusadercrusader Posts: 1,129member
    [quote] your post was nearly unreadable. <hr></blockquote>

    I was able to read it; I didn't notice anything was wrong until I saw the space in Quicktime. Weird.
  • Reply 8 of 31
    bigcbigc Posts: 1,224member
    Wow, proper grammar and spelling is a requirement on this board, go figure...
  • Reply 9 of 31
    [quote]Originally posted by xype:

    <strong>"Microsoft is the big dog because it understood that cost is king. Its OS can be used on any number of PCs, so it's a lot cheaper than Apple's"



    Ah, so MacOS X 10.2 is more expensive than XP Pro. I see. Stupid people should be forbidden access to computers and the net in general.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I just checked the pricing, and just to clarify, Windows XP Home Edition is ~$200, while Mac OS X (v10.2) is ~$130.



    i agree, people who cannot state correct information should be banned from writing stupid articles.



    -Alexis
  • Reply 10 of 31
    fotnsfotns Posts: 301member
    [quote]Originally posted by Alexis:

    <strong>



    I just checked the pricing, and just to clarify, Windows XP Home Edition is ~$200, while Mac OS X (v10.2) is ~$130.



    i agree, people who cannot state correct information should be banned from writing stupid articles.



    -Alexis</strong><hr></blockquote>

    You can buy XP Home for $93 at Newegg.com plus a cheap hardware purchase like a $5 mouse. In total you can get it for under $100. Stupid people buy retail, OEM is a much better deal.



    <a href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=90&manu factory=1149&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1" target="_blank">Newegg.com</a>
  • Reply 11 of 31
    elricelric Posts: 230member
    Ok, I'm a switcher but it wasn't just windows to os x. First I went with Linux, it was ok, but it felt raw and unfinished and required alot of technical reading to get it to do what I wanted. Then I tried OS X and its like a complete Linux and more. I still have access to big commercial apps like Photoshop and I have access to the unix apps that I liked. And now I have all these iApps which are just great. I even went out and baught a video camera just so I could make iMovies and DVDs.



    So, from my experience, Linux is the first alternative for people who are fed up with windows, but linux is in no way a replacement for OS X. Frankly it drives me nuts when people talk about putting linux on macs. Its like taking a porche and putting an old 68 vw bug engine in it :-P
  • Reply 12 of 31
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    [quote]Originally posted by FotNS:

    <strong>

    You can buy XP Home for $93 at Newegg.com plus a cheap hardware purchase like a $5 mouse. In total you can get it for under $100. Stupid people buy retail, OEM is a much better deal.



    <a href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=90&manu factory=1149&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1" target="_blank">Newegg.com</a></strong><hr></blockquote>



    I've read OEM license agreements and I've never seen proof that NewEgg and other shops are allowed to sell OEM copies of software with a miscellaneous hardware purchase. The open-ended-ness of the policies should set off alarms...some stores make you buy a HDD for example. I'm convinced it's not actually legal, though Microsoft basically doesn't care.



    Why do you think stores like CompUSA, Best Buy, CDW, etc. don't engage in the same practice? They're covering their asses because it's not actually endorsed practice.



    OEM software is pretty much never supposed to be resold.



    [ 01-25-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
  • Reply 13 of 31
    nevynnevyn Posts: 360member
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong>



    I've read OEM license agreements and I've never seen proof that NewEgg and other shops are allowed to sell OEM copies of software with a miscellaneous hardware purchase. The open-ended-ness of the policies should set off alarms...some stores make you buy a HDD for example. I'm convinced it's not actually legal, though Microsoft basically doesn't care.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ...until the Business Software Alliance isn't meeting quota and gets a 'tip' from a disgruntled employee. -&gt; An AMAZING hassle. "Where's the computer this OEM version shipped on?" - - uh uh uh Can I pay the fine? Please?



    Even with corporate computers under 'complete lockdown' there's guaranteed to be 147 alleged violations of the nominal license agreements.
  • Reply 14 of 31
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    [quote]Originally posted by FotNS:

    [QB]You can buy XP Home for $93 at Newegg.com plus a cheap hardware purchase like a $5 mouse. In total you can get it for under $100. Stupid people buy retail, OEM is a much better deal.<hr></blockquote>



    True, the OEM-bought version of OS X 10.2 is, yep, free. It's only that Apple has a system of guaranteeing it's only sold with the computer (=pack OS X into the same box as the computer). So there.
  • Reply 15 of 31
    gnomgnom Posts: 85member
    [quote]"Hardware is always the millstone that sinks Macintosh. Someone decided that if you want Macintosh, you have to buy an expensive Apple computer. It may have been the single worst business decision in tech history "<hr></blockquote>





    So basically Linux is gaining marketshare, Apple's making money with the computers they sell while Dell would love to sell you a new box but you prefer to take the old one from the basement to run Linux on. Not too bad I'd say.





    cheers.
  • Reply 16 of 31
    I both hate and feel pity for people who spend their time wishing for the Macintosh to go away.



    I hate that they actually desire to see something that represents creativity, innovation and simplicity dissappear and be replcaced by mediocraty, utiliitarianism and blandism.



    I pity them because in their view of the world they fail to see the wonder and magic in things like the macintosh.



    This guy would probably also write an article on why DisneyWorld is doomed because of travelling rides that set up in mall parking lots.



    Linux and Macintosh have very few overlapping markets at all - and so the whole subject of the article is moot.



    If Linux is growing share and Mac is losing, it is not because linux is superior at anything that the Mac is trying to do. Linux's position is free or near free server software, Macintosh's is the best environment for running creative applications (and arguably - against MS - office productivity applications)
  • Reply 17 of 31
    The thing I don't get is how could Linux be gaining market share over the mac.



    [quote]But Linux works on any old box. And all those old PCs that people leave laying around after they've bought a newer, faster one? "Hey, let's try this new Linux thing on that Dell in the basement."



    Score one for Linux.<hr></blockquote>



    If people running linux are using old boxes that run windows, wouldn't windows be loosing marketshare, not the mac? Of most the people I know (maybe it is different elsewhere), but those that have macs, run macos. But those that have PCs run either Windows, dual boot windows/linux, or run only linux.



    So its all moot. The mac isn't loosing marketshare to linux. If anyones is its windows. Plus, if you wanted to make a cheap server (or cheap desktop), you aren't going to by mac hardware and then install linux. You would buy cheap PC hardware, and install linux. These "cheap" PC boxes can't run macos, so the Mac is loosing no marketshare here either. Again, windows is loosing marketshare to linux.



    So for anyone to say that the mac will go away because of linux is incorrect. If anything, it will take away from the windows camp (not much, but still), so th enumbers may someday look like 90W/6M/4L (woohoo!)



    [ 01-26-2003: Message edited by: kupan787 ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 31
    [quote]Originally posted by kupan787:

    <strong>The thing I don't get is how could Linux be gaining market share over the mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Because say there are only 100 computers in the world. 95 run Windows, 3 run Mac and 2 run Linux. Now lets say 2 more decide to run Linux. That makes 93 running Windows, 4 running Linux, and 3 running Mac. In this extremely simplified example, that makes 93% windows, 4% Linux, and 3% Mac.



    If Linux continues to gain more market share -- say it takes 6% of the desktop market, then developers may see Linux as the market they should be concentrating on instead of the Mac platform because it has more potential buyers. Therefore, they'll still develop for Windows, but their old Mac units will concentrate on Linux software.
  • Reply 19 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,129member
    [quote]Originally posted by long AAPL:

    <strong>



    Because say there are only 100 computers in the world. 95 run Windows, 3 run Mac and 2 run Linux. Now lets say 2 more decide to run Linux. That makes 93 running Windows, 4 running Linux, and 3 running Mac. In this extremely simplified example, that makes 93% windows, 4% Linux, and 3% Mac.



    If Linux continues to gain more market share -- say it takes 6% of the desktop market, then developers may see Linux as the market they should be concentrating on instead of the Mac platform because it has more potential buyers. Therefore, they'll still develop for Windows, but their old Mac units will concentrate on Linux software.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes but see the main fallacy of the above scenario is that anyone of the 95 Windows PC and anyone of the 3 Mac users can run Linux Simultaneously. Again..given the fact that Human Natured dictates a love for truly "Free" items. Linux should be on every computer shipped. It's not.



    Getting the true landscape of the computer market it going to take alot more work involved that some Linux fanboy counting Distro Downloads and surveys. While they waste their time doing that I'll be getting real work accomplished. If Marklar is true what makes people think Darwin couldn't be polished enought to render the benefits of Linux a moot point? A PPC970 box running Shake at the front end with Darwin X86 Render nodes wouldn't be so bad now would it?
  • Reply 20 of 31
    fotnsfotns Posts: 301member
    [quote]Originally posted by xype:

    <strong>



    True, the OEM-bought version of OS X 10.2 is, yep, free. It's only that Apple has a system of guaranteeing it's only sold with the computer (=pack OS X into the same box as the computer). So there.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    OS X that comes with a system is not free, the price is built into the machine. So there.
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