I like what I'm seeing and it makes sense in the competing Windows world. The 1.5" form factor is like one of those powerful desktop replacement laptops PC, I just hope when something like it does come out, it won't weigh 9lbs like the Windows do.
Also, I could see the G4 Powerbooks being like ultralight notebooks. Keep the 1" profile, but maybe even lighten it a bit (i'm not sure how). Apple really needs to compete against the slick and small Fujitsu and Sony ultranotebook lines that weigh less than 3lbs. I know that's a debate I've been having in my head when it comes to a future laptop purchase. The current 12" powerbook is still too heavy for my tastes. That's why I like the 13" prediction.
Here's to dreaming and hoping new laptops come out soon.
I thought of getting a sony 10" 3 pounder for my work which requires a windows (just one of my programs needs this, but it's work and my corp paid for it) BUT.....
i had to carry all the peripherals separate, cd, dvd, floppy etc, so i would lug all this stuff so i can have the convenielnce of 3 pounds?????
give me an all in one pb12 no dongles(wifi) cards hanging out etc
what do you think---do you think people are getting tires of updating security patches for windows and seek a higher plain with apple which i have never i mean never had a virus come in or attach me. i can use office just like everyone else and dont have to wait for long downloads and forbid it if i can't get to the update fast enough before the virus attacks
so i think all this virus stuff will sell more apple products including servers, i bet those companies that have both see which one services them better....apple
I must say IMO pscates makes a MUCH better armchair CEO than THT.
pscates fictional lineup is much cleaner and easier to work with.
All one has to choose if they are a consumer or a Professional and then which screen size they want. Everything with the same specs in the respective line.
THT's plan seems rife with questions. Like what exactly makes the PowerBook a PowerBook? With the midrange having the same processor as the G3 he's muddied the waters up there. Do we really need 5 different clocked processors in the lineup? Why is the top of the line iBook and the lowest PowerBook difference so large? So i get bumped up one notch on resolution and have barely faster RAM and for some reason a crippled G4 in the iBook. Not to mention why the iBook is .35 inch thicker?
Why is the BTO PowerBook the same price as the low end G5 PowerBook? Especially when the G5 PowerBook sports a much faster processor and is 150Mhz faster. Why do we need a G4 PowerBook with a resolution greater than the G5?
I must say IMO pscates makes a MUCH better armchair CEO than THT.
Ah, but pscates didn't list any prices.
I do admit my plan is much more clear and sensible to me, I'm the one that created it after all, and pscates' lineup is rather incomplete until he lists his whole lineup.
Quote:
THT's plan seems rife with questions. Like what exactly makes the PowerBook a PowerBook?
So what's the difference between a Power Mac G4 and Power Mac G5 anyways? I'm not exactly clear on it myself.
Ok, enough of being a wiseass. If you guys are really that hung up on names, I can change the name of my PowerBook G5 to Xbook. If I did that first, I wonder if I would have gotten any criticisms about "PowerBook" branding. I'm very surprised at the reactions. Considering the inundation 3-tiered automobile marketing, the public should be so trained to think in three levels of performance that it should be expecting it for every product! That's probably why Apple used Good, Better, Best marketing awhile back in the AppleStore. (Or was that Fast, Faster, Fastest?)
Or for confusing, how about this. What's the difference between a $1300 900 MHz iBook and a $1600 867 MHz PowerBook 12"? The $300 value proposition is an extra 128 MB RAM and AltiVec. Does anyone think that is fair? You really think that's better than what I listed?
Quote:
With the midrange having the same processor as the G3 he's muddied the waters up there. Do we really need 5 different clocked processors in the lineup? Why is the top of the line iBook and the lowest PowerBook difference so large?
Actually, yes we need 5 different processor speeds when we have a cost range from $800 to $2600. And are you questioning my 1st lineup or my second lineup, actually third?
Quote:
So i get bumped up one notch on resolution and have barely faster RAM and for some reason a crippled G4 in the iBook. Not to mention why the iBook is .35 inch thicker?
Look very carefully again. The midrange has 1 MB backside cache. That's usually equivalent to 5 to 10% more performance. My intent was a linear performance/price ratio for the entire lineup and it should be thus in my original lineup at least. More money will always buy either more performance or more pixels.
The reason the 12" iBook is 1.35" thick is because it does not have enough acreage for the iBook motherboard and hard drive to have their own space. In the iBook, the hard drive rests on top of the iBook motherboard in the lower left hand corner. Even worse, this is where the processor is too and it is the reason why iBooks are so hot in the lower left hand corner. The optical drive and battery have their own space for obvious reasons.
This very acreage issue is the very reason why the 12" PowerBook G4 is 1.18" thick! Not 1" like its namesake brethren. If you believe in conspiracy theories, the 12" Powerbook really was supposed to be the new iBook, it has the same basic floor plan and features as a next gen iBook G4, but Apple decided to brand it as a PowerBook instead and reap the margin.
In my lineup with the 13" Powerbook, their probably isn't enough space there to make it 1" unless we limit the hard disk height to less than 0.3 inches. If there is such a thing.
Quote:
Why is the BTO PowerBook the same price as the low end G5 PowerBook? Especially when the G5 PowerBook sports a much faster processor and is 150Mhz faster. Why do we need a G4 PowerBook with a resolution greater than the G5?
Because the value proposition is 15" 1440x960 screen versus a 15" 1280x854 Powerbook G5. Btw, that should also be 2 MB backside cache (L3 cache) for the BTO. Why should there be a higher resolution 15" PBG4 than a 15" PBG5? Because some people will like the better mobility of the 1" PBG4, smaller size and less weight, would like to have more screen resolution, and would gladly pay $300 for it.
I am 100% confident that these value propositions will not cause a prospective buyer from not buying.
I like what I'm seeing and it makes sense in the competing Windows world. The 1.5" form factor is like one of those powerful desktop replacement laptops PC, I just hope when something like it does come out, it won't weigh 9lbs like the Windows do.
Well, maybe 7.5 to 8 lbs. I put it at 1.5 inches because it would allow for a 0.5" to 0.75" thick "heat sink" that covers 75% of the motherboard. Namely it would be designed such that its surface can be thermal pasted to the CPU, system ASIC, graphics chip, and system I/O chip. Fans would be an integral part of the heat sink and are situated at the ends of the heat sink with flow going south to north (front to back). The flow would be separated into 3 zones: 1 for the system I/O chip, 1 for the CPU and system ASIC, and 1 for the graphics chip. (Maybe it should have 4 zones?) Since it will be less than 0.75" thick, it means each zone would have lots of small fans, with the CPU zone probably having 6+.
Quote:
Also, I could see the G4 Powerbooks being like ultralight notebooks.
Which brings me to my original post. No one has really answered my primary question. Which would you rather have? Thin and light or thick and heavy but more performance.
Quote:
Keep the 1" profile, but maybe even lighten it a bit (i'm not sure how). Apple really needs to compete against the slick and small Fujitsu and Sony ultranotebook lines that weigh less than 3lbs.
There isn't much that can be done to reduce weight further and still have a full featured notebook. If an optical drive could be made 0.375" thick, about the same thickness as Apple's hard drive volume for notebooks, Apple could create a 0.8" thick notebook and maybe reduce the weight to 4 lbs... it's going to be fragile thing.
Even worse, this is where the processor is too and it is the reason why iBooks are so hot in the lower left hand corner.
I looked at this some more, and it appears the CPU would be underneath the E, R and D keys of one's iBook 12", and the giant IC in the lower right is either the system ASIC or system I/O. It would almost have to be the system ASIC I think.
I think I may be an obsessive compulsive. Anyways, I haven't truly explored whether a 1" thick 13.1" Powerbook is possible. Maybe later. I'd like to see a notebook in for $800, but I don't think that would be possible unless Apple uses an integrated video system.
Ultralight notebooks, less than 3.5 lb, would be in all probably a fourth line of notebook computers. If one wants one that is 0.75" thick, .5 lb with a clamshell design and 12" screen, I think the optical drive will have to go away. On top of that, I foresee some "nonstandard" ports a la iPod due to its thinness. USB is probably doable. Popout modem and ethernet ports would be needed. An iPod dock connector type of thing could be used for FireWire. I was wondering if an iPod type hard drive would be a viable solution for a Mac OS X system though.
Comments
I just want a laptop soon.
Also, I could see the G4 Powerbooks being like ultralight notebooks. Keep the 1" profile, but maybe even lighten it a bit (i'm not sure how). Apple really needs to compete against the slick and small Fujitsu and Sony ultranotebook lines that weigh less than 3lbs. I know that's a debate I've been having in my head when it comes to a future laptop purchase. The current 12" powerbook is still too heavy for my tastes. That's why I like the 13" prediction.
Here's to dreaming and hoping new laptops come out soon.
I thought of getting a sony 10" 3 pounder for my work which requires a windows (just one of my programs needs this, but it's work and my corp paid for it) BUT.....
i had to carry all the peripherals separate, cd, dvd, floppy etc, so i would lug all this stuff so i can have the convenielnce of 3 pounds?????
give me an all in one pb12 no dongles(wifi) cards hanging out etc
what do you think---do you think people are getting tires of updating security patches for windows and seek a higher plain with apple which i have never i mean never had a virus come in or attach me. i can use office just like everyone else and dont have to wait for long downloads and forbid it if i can't get to the update fast enough before the virus attacks
so i think all this virus stuff will sell more apple products including servers, i bet those companies that have both see which one services them better....apple
pscates fictional lineup is much cleaner and easier to work with.
All one has to choose if they are a consumer or a Professional and then which screen size they want. Everything with the same specs in the respective line.
THT's plan seems rife with questions. Like what exactly makes the PowerBook a PowerBook? With the midrange having the same processor as the G3 he's muddied the waters up there. Do we really need 5 different clocked processors in the lineup? Why is the top of the line iBook and the lowest PowerBook difference so large? So i get bumped up one notch on resolution and have barely faster RAM and for some reason a crippled G4 in the iBook. Not to mention why the iBook is .35 inch thicker?
Why is the BTO PowerBook the same price as the low end G5 PowerBook? Especially when the G5 PowerBook sports a much faster processor and is 150Mhz faster. Why do we need a G4 PowerBook with a resolution greater than the G5?
I even have a black mock turtleneck!
Originally posted by beg_ne
I must say IMO pscates makes a MUCH better armchair CEO than THT.
Ah, but pscates didn't list any prices.
I do admit my plan is much more clear and sensible to me, I'm the one that created it after all, and pscates' lineup is rather incomplete until he lists his whole lineup.
THT's plan seems rife with questions. Like what exactly makes the PowerBook a PowerBook?
So what's the difference between a Power Mac G4 and Power Mac G5 anyways? I'm not exactly clear on it myself.
Ok, enough of being a wiseass. If you guys are really that hung up on names, I can change the name of my PowerBook G5 to Xbook. If I did that first, I wonder if I would have gotten any criticisms about "PowerBook" branding. I'm very surprised at the reactions. Considering the inundation 3-tiered automobile marketing, the public should be so trained to think in three levels of performance that it should be expecting it for every product!
Or for confusing, how about this. What's the difference between a $1300 900 MHz iBook and a $1600 867 MHz PowerBook 12"? The $300 value proposition is an extra 128 MB RAM and AltiVec. Does anyone think that is fair? You really think that's better than what I listed?
With the midrange having the same processor as the G3 he's muddied the waters up there. Do we really need 5 different clocked processors in the lineup? Why is the top of the line iBook and the lowest PowerBook difference so large?
Actually, yes we need 5 different processor speeds when we have a cost range from $800 to $2600. And are you questioning my 1st lineup or my second lineup, actually third?
So i get bumped up one notch on resolution and have barely faster RAM and for some reason a crippled G4 in the iBook. Not to mention why the iBook is .35 inch thicker?
Look very carefully again. The midrange has 1 MB backside cache. That's usually equivalent to 5 to 10% more performance. My intent was a linear performance/price ratio for the entire lineup and it should be thus in my original lineup at least. More money will always buy either more performance or more pixels.
The reason the 12" iBook is 1.35" thick is because it does not have enough acreage for the iBook motherboard and hard drive to have their own space. In the iBook, the hard drive rests on top of the iBook motherboard in the lower left hand corner. Even worse, this is where the processor is too and it is the reason why iBooks are so hot in the lower left hand corner. The optical drive and battery have their own space for obvious reasons.
This very acreage issue is the very reason why the 12" PowerBook G4 is 1.18" thick! Not 1" like its namesake brethren. If you believe in conspiracy theories, the 12" Powerbook really was supposed to be the new iBook, it has the same basic floor plan and features as a next gen iBook G4, but Apple decided to brand it as a PowerBook instead and reap the margin.
In my lineup with the 13" Powerbook, their probably isn't enough space there to make it 1" unless we limit the hard disk height to less than 0.3 inches. If there is such a thing.
Why is the BTO PowerBook the same price as the low end G5 PowerBook? Especially when the G5 PowerBook sports a much faster processor and is 150Mhz faster. Why do we need a G4 PowerBook with a resolution greater than the G5?
Because the value proposition is 15" 1440x960 screen versus a 15" 1280x854 Powerbook G5. Btw, that should also be 2 MB backside cache (L3 cache) for the BTO. Why should there be a higher resolution 15" PBG4 than a 15" PBG5? Because some people will like the better mobility of the 1" PBG4, smaller size and less weight, would like to have more screen resolution, and would gladly pay $300 for it.
I am 100% confident that these value propositions will not cause a prospective buyer from not buying.
Originally posted by contempt
I like what I'm seeing and it makes sense in the competing Windows world. The 1.5" form factor is like one of those powerful desktop replacement laptops PC, I just hope when something like it does come out, it won't weigh 9lbs like the Windows do.
Well, maybe 7.5 to 8 lbs. I put it at 1.5 inches because it would allow for a 0.5" to 0.75" thick "heat sink" that covers 75% of the motherboard. Namely it would be designed such that its surface can be thermal pasted to the CPU, system ASIC, graphics chip, and system I/O chip. Fans would be an integral part of the heat sink and are situated at the ends of the heat sink with flow going south to north (front to back). The flow would be separated into 3 zones: 1 for the system I/O chip, 1 for the CPU and system ASIC, and 1 for the graphics chip. (Maybe it should have 4 zones?) Since it will be less than 0.75" thick, it means each zone would have lots of small fans, with the CPU zone probably having 6+.
Also, I could see the G4 Powerbooks being like ultralight notebooks.
Which brings me to my original post. No one has really answered my primary question. Which would you rather have? Thin and light or thick and heavy but more performance.
Keep the 1" profile, but maybe even lighten it a bit (i'm not sure how). Apple really needs to compete against the slick and small Fujitsu and Sony ultranotebook lines that weigh less than 3lbs.
There isn't much that can be done to reduce weight further and still have a full featured notebook. If an optical drive could be made 0.375" thick, about the same thickness as Apple's hard drive volume for notebooks, Apple could create a 0.8" thick notebook and maybe reduce the weight to 4 lbs... it's going to be fragile thing.
Originally posted by THT
Even worse, this is where the processor is too and it is the reason why iBooks are so hot in the lower left hand corner.
I looked at this some more, and it appears the CPU would be underneath the E, R and D keys of one's iBook 12", and the giant IC in the lower right is either the system ASIC or system I/O. It would almost have to be the system ASIC I think.
My needs aren't crazy, so I'm not one of these "I'm gonna hold out for a 2GHz G5 PowerBook..." types at all.
The way I see it, the 15" model has it all: thin and light AND performance. For me, anyway.
take a look at this....planned obsolescence
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/...8/16/cringely/
IT fears mac since it would make people less dependent on IT
of course....no wonder.....
Version 2.0
Standard configurations:
C Clck Main SO Vid LCD Screen Thck Opti
P Rate L3 mem DI Mem Size Resolu ness cal Price
U GHz MB MB Memory type MM MB in tion (in) Drve (USD)
-- ---- -- --- ----------- - --- ---- --------- ---- ----- -----
iBook G4 0.87 0 256 64b PC2100 1 32 12.1 1024x768 1.2 combo 899
iBook G4 1.0 0 256 64b PC2100 1 32 12.1 1024x768 1.2 combo 1099
Powerbook G4 1.0 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 13.1 1152x768 1.0 combo 1299
Powerbook G4 1.25 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 15.4 1280x854 1.0 super 1799
Powerbook G4 1.33 2 256 64b PC2700 2 64 17 1440x960 1.0 super 2299
Xbook G5 1.4 0 512 128b PC2700 4 64 15.4 1440x960 1.5 super 2399
Xbook G5 1.6 0 512 128b PC2700 4 128 17 1440x960 1.5 super 2799
Xbook G5 1.6 0 512 128b PC2700 4 128 17 1600x1067 1.5 super 3199
Ports:
Video chp Video output Mul Hard Disk 1393 USB Ca Aud Gig
choice of technology Mon Sz Ba ATA Ports Prt rd io bit
Nvid ATI Prt output Tch GB ys Typ 800 400 1 2 bus in Eth
---- ---- --- --------- --- -- -- --- --- --- - - --- --- ---
iBook 420 9000 VGA Comp SVID Mir 40 1 66 0 1 2 0 0 no no
Powerbook 440 9200 DVI Comp SVID Spn 60 1 100 1 1 1 1 1 yes yes
Xbook 4200 9600 DVI Comp SVID Spn 80 2 100 1 1 2 1 1 yes yes
Build to order options excluding hard disk sizes, airport, memory etc.:
C Clck Main SO Vid LCD Screen Thck Opti
P Rate L3 mem DI Mem Size Resolu ness cal Price
U GHz MB MB Memory type MM MB in tion (in) Drve (USD)
-- ---- -- --- ----------- - --- ---- --------- ---- ----- -----
Powerbook G4 1.0 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 13.1 1152x768 1.0 super 1499
Powerbook G4 1.25 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 15.4 1280x854 1.0 combo 1599
Powerbook G4 1.25 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 15.4 1440x960 1.0 combo 1699
Powerbook G4 1.25 1 256 64b PC2700 2 32 15.4 1440x960 1.0 super 1899
Powerbook G4 1.33 2 256 64b PC2700 2 64 17 1440x960 1.0 combo 2099
Xbook G5 1.4 0 512 128b PC2700 4 64 15.4 1280x854 1.5 combo 2099
Xbook G5 1.4 0 512 128b PC2700 4 64 15.4 1440x960 1.5 combo 2199
Xbook G5 1.4 0 512 128b PC2700 4 64 15.4 1280x854 1.5 super 2299
Xbook G5 1.6 0 512 128b PC2700 4 128 17 1440x960 1.5 combo 2599
Xbook G5 1.6 0 512 128b PC2700 4 128 17 1600x1067 1.5 combo 2999
I think I may be an obsessive compulsive.
Ultralight notebooks, less than 3.5 lb, would be in all probably a fourth line of notebook computers. If one wants one that is 0.75" thick,