Food for thought...

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  • Reply 21 of 40
    ttzzttzz Posts: 10member
    I wouldn't at all be surprised by March. IBM said Q3 but I don't remember them saying anything about Calender Q3 2003! Fiscal Q3 2003 starts at the beginning of April so a March announcement of 970 powered PMs shipping in April fits in very well with that.



    When have Apple ever had a new chip that ships the day after announcement?



    IBM were being correct by saying Q3 and the assumption that everybody makes that they meant calender Q3 fits in very well the sort of deception that would keep Apple happy.
  • Reply 22 of 40
    PowerMacs won't be updated until late August or early September. If you go to the Apple Store you will see that just announced PowerMacs delivery time is 3-5 weeks.



    I think that we will see new processors etc... in Xservers sooner what we might think.



    At least in next MacWorld will see new processors. We have to.
  • Reply 23 of 40
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    Late march? Maybe June. When is MWNY? Isn't it in June?
  • Reply 24 of 40
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:

    <strong>Apple claims to have very little inventory so it shouldn't take months for them to clear it out. Also, Apple's style has been to simply stop production and wait for the channel to clear rather than cutting prices. Once they cut prices it is very hard to push them back up again. If you got the market accustomed to $1,500 PMs then came out with a new model for $2,500 that would be a hard sell.



    I'm skeptical that anyone outside of a small number of people in Cupertino know anything specific about Apple's plans more than a few weeks ahead of time.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Very little? They just released new machines last week. Also, whose to say they can't keep the same price point. Also, they have came in and introed new products at a higher price, nothing new there. What I'm saying is the march date (according to the author) would be when they started clearing inventory. Sounds reasonable to me.
  • Reply 25 of 40
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 26 of 40
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I agree with others who have said that late March is too early. If they knew these were coming 'round the bend in just two months, they simply would have waited until then to update. It's less than two months away.
  • Reply 27 of 40
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Ok let me clarify again,



    No one is saying the 970s/G5s will be out in March.



    the discussions is about price cuts on towers in March. That's it, March-Price Cuts. No 970s, just price cuts. Price cuts in March.



    So the question is why? Is there a connection to the 970/G5? I think so, as i stated above previously, to clear inventory as no one will buy G4s after the 970 is out.
  • Reply 28 of 40
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>Ok let me clarify again,



    No one is saying the 970s/G5s will be out in March.



    the discussions is about price cuts on towers in March. That's it, March-Price Cuts. No 970s, just price cuts. Price cuts in March.



    So the question is why? Is there a connection to the 970/G5? I think so, as i stated above previously, to clear inventory as no one will buy G4s after the 970 is out.</strong><hr></blockquote>No one except for alex_1800's friend named *cough*, who said [quote]they're suppose to come out around late march, but they might be delayed slightly by like a week or so, as they do sometimes.<hr></blockquote>The way I took it is that the G4s were being lowered in price at the same time the "G5" was coming out - late March.



    [ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]
  • Reply 29 of 40
    ttzzttzz Posts: 10member
    [quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

    <strong> If they knew these were coming 'round the bend in just two months, they simply would have waited until then to update. It's less than two months away.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    And how long after the Ti Powerbooks were updated did Apple release the new Alu PowerBooks?!



    Current Apple logic seems to be very illogical.
  • Reply 30 of 40
    othelloothello Posts: 1,053member
    unless the 970 machines will be really high-end to begin with and sit above the G4s. so Apple will sell both...
  • Reply 31 of 40
    Have the xserves been updated since their original release <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 32 of 40
    ed m.ed m. Posts: 222member
    Some things to consider...



    - We know for a fact is that the entire line has received a price drop. This only happened recently.



    - The architecture in the new G4 towers isn't new at all -- it's been used in the Xserve for some time now; therefore, this *could* very well be our "price drop". Any special promotional offers by Apple and third parties would likely lend even more credibility. Not saying it *is* the case, just speculating.



    - The PowerMac case is in serious need of an upgrade. It's been out for an extremely long time now and something entirely new is needed. Similarly, it's likely that a completely new processor will come installed in that completely new tower design.



    - There seems to be confusion when interpreting "Q3". Is it fiscal Q3 or calendar Q3? Someone would actually have to track IBMs product roll-offs and pair them with their past press releases / announcements. Anyone up to the task? This should provide additional hints for guestimnating a possible time of release.



    - Everyone is forgetting that Apple is part of the AIM alliance that designed the PowerPC. That means they likely had a hand in the R&D. Given that, it's also reasonable that they have a say regarding the availability of information and marketing strategies prior to release.



    - Forgetting the above point, let's consider that Apple was in fact looking for another processor supplier. Apple wouldn't "just wait around" until a new design was released and then attempt to fit it into their game plan for new systems. It's preposterous to think that. The more likely scenario is that Apple *AND* IBM have been working on the development of this chip. That is to say that if Apple were to even consider it, IBM would have had to have considerable talks and discussions with Apple prior to even starting the design; that's why I'm guessing that Apple and IBM have been collaborating for quite some time. Again, Apple wouldn't just haphazardly adopt a new processor just because one becomes available.



    Regarding the performance of the initial parts I've been told...



    [[["I wouldn't be surprised to see the part ship at 2 GHz (or even more). The longer it takes to qual for shipping, the more likely that the intro frequency will be higher. This is because silicon process technology is constantly improving, so [if IBM has a decent amount of 1.8 GHz in the lab now, they may well have even faster parts 6 months or a year from know.] The question is what their yield curve and frequency bins look like (and will look like)."]]]



    I've also heard that IBM has been planning this processor back in 2000. At the time it was also brought to my attention that the G4 was supposed to be phased out from the desktop lineup by second half 2001 -- "we never envisioned the

    G4+ to still be Apple's high-end CPU in 2002 ..."]]] &lt;end&gt;



    So, anything could happen.



    --

    Ed M.
  • Reply 33 of 40
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    [quote]Originally posted by TTzz:

    <strong>



    And how long after the Ti Powerbooks were updated did Apple release the new Alu PowerBooks?!



    Current Apple logic seems to be very illogical.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The Aluminum PowerBooks were different models altogether, so channel inventory wasn't an issue. It is, however, the reason why the 15" is still a Titanium.



    For Apple to roll out new towers within 6 months of an update, they'd have to be different models altogether. If Apple intends to replace the line, rather than enhance it (as they did with the PBs), then with the past as a guide, we're in for a longer wait. Apple could always sell the 1.42GHz machine in its El Capitan case at the low end, and have new 970 based machines filling out the line. You can bet that Apple wants that $3500 price point back.



    The wild card is that Apple doubtless wants firebreathing PowerMacs as soon as possible, and they might just be willing to take a bath in inventory to get them out ASAP. It's not likely, given how tightly they run their ship - and given that they probably don't want to piss off their resellers any more than they already have - but it's possible.



    [ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
  • Reply 34 of 40
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

    <strong>The way I took it is that the G4s were being lowered in price at the same time the "G5" was coming out - late March.



    [ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    My bad he threw me off by only saying price cuts in March, then at the end he mentioned the G5s in March as well. Alright, doesn't make sence now, I'm with you guys, March is too soon.
  • Reply 35 of 40
    fieldorfieldor Posts: 213member
    Apple had to lower their prices, because the economy isn't doing well. If they would stick to their old prices the would lose more money. They could go to a more attractive price point , but I think it 's just the bad economy.
  • Reply 36 of 40
    [quote]Originally posted by Amorph:

    <strong>For Apple to roll out new towers within 6 months of an update, they'd have to be different models altogether.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Not so. Take a look at the current line of machines. They use the same memory and bus architecture as the XServe. The CPU and DDR memory are on a seperate daughter card. This architecture really only makes sense for a faster FSB than is available with the MPC7455 (G4+) chips, yet that is what they shipped with.



    The recent speed bumped machines use the same memory and bus architectures but offer FW 800 and Airport Xtreme. They still run slightly advanced versions of the MPC7455 (G4+). Essentially, these machines are still configured to support a much faster chip with a wider bus.



    It would very much possible to replace the daughter card without affecting the rest of the mobo. If Apple had completed their architectural revisions to support the 970 and were merely waiting for sufficient quantities of the chips themselves to become available before shipping they would likely ship a hybrid design (ala "Yikes!") before then to keep inventory levels up until they were ready to ship PPC970 boxes.

    [quote]<strong>If Apple intends to replace the line, rather than enhance it (as they did with the PBs), then with the past as a guide, we're in for a longer wait. Apple could always sell the 1.42GHz machine in its El Capitan case at the low end, and have new 970 based machines filling out the line. You can bet that Apple wants that $3500 price point back.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    And they'd get it regardless of case design. No one cares that much about fit and finish at this point -- they just want faster boxes. The current MDD design could be easily tweaked for the new, cooler chip by simply lowering the size of the heatsink and perhaps eliminating the "speedholes" (although they are more a cosmetic feature than not). A case redesign could wait until the next PPC970 speed bump.

    [quote]<strong>The wild card is that Apple doubtless wants firebreathing PowerMacs as soon as possible, and they might just be willing to take a bath in inventory to get them out ASAP.]</strong><hr></blockquote>

    If I'm correct, as IBM ramps up production in March, Apple could ramp down inventory at the same time. They (usually) only have 4-5 weeks worth at any given time, so they could announce an April-May availability of PPC970 Macs in late March once inventory levels had dropped to one or two weeks. That wouldn't upset their distributors at all.
  • Reply 37 of 40
    I don't know. I used to work *cough*retail*cough* and I didn't know *cough*sh¡t*cough* ahead of time.
  • Reply 38 of 40
    Here's some info related to IBM's Fiscal Calendar as opposed to the regular calendar:



    IBM's 2002 Fiscal calendar (4th quarter) ended approximately December 20, 2002.



    About IBM's 970 announcement:



    When IBM made the 970 announcement at the MPF, they stated that the 970 would be in "full production" starting 2H '03, meaning . . . starting July '03. You should note that IBM is "under the gun" to produce viable H/W by the stated time . . . "or else"! Loosely translating, IBM announced a time that they would meet, even if "Murphy's Law" kicked in with the most impact, and under normal circumstances they could launch things early. How early . . . who knows, or more aptly put . . . who can say. I'll tell you that I can't.



    BTW, MWNY is around July 15th this year, and Apple has yet to confirm participation in that event. MacWorld Tokyo is cancelled, as I'm sure most of you know. NAB hasn't been a "big" Apple event in recent years (but it could be, now). Which leaves the developers conference around April-May, IIRC, but doubt my memory of the exact date.
  • Reply 39 of 40
    [quote]Originally posted by MacJedai:

    <strong>Here's some info related to IBM's Fiscal Calendar as opposed to the regular calendar:



    IBM's 2002 Fiscal calendar (4th quarter) ended approximately December 20, 2002.



    About IBM's 970 announcement:



    When IBM made the 970 announcement at the MPF, they stated that the 970 would be in "full production" starting 2H '03, meaning . . . starting July '03. You should note that IBM is "under the gun" to produce viable H/W by the stated time . . . "or else"! Loosely translating, IBM announced a time that they would meet, even if "Murphy's Law" kicked in with the most impact, and under normal circumstances they could launch things early. How early . . . who knows, or more aptly put . . . who can say. I'll tell you that I can't.



    BTW, MWNY is around July 15th this year, and Apple has yet to confirm participation in that event. MacWorld Tokyo is cancelled, as I'm sure most of you know. NAB hasn't been a "big" Apple event in recent years (but it could be, now). Which leaves the developers conference around April-May, IIRC, but doubt my memory of the exact date.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    WWDC is been in early May, historically. This would be the perfect place to introduce the 64-bit version of MacOS X and demonstrate the hardware upon which it will run. I'd be surprised if they actually introduced machines at that point for immediate shipment, but in the past they have often demonstrated "upcoming hardware technologies". I'm certainly looking forward to this year's developer's conference although I haven't been in years.
  • Reply 40 of 40
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    i'm wondering why the ibm-powerPC roadmap doesn't include the 970 and is also a getting old. the marked products are described as coming in 2002 ??? we have 2003 already. so - ibm doesn't have an actual roadmap ?? strange
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