Why on Earth would you buy Cinema 4D? Seriously, it's mediocre.
Don't say that in front of Leonis, fer Pete's sake...
Yer know, I think one or two are being a little harsh on Cinema 4D. Mediocre? More and more these days, I think it's just the skill of the user. I've see great results with most of the heavy hitters. I use Lightwave and think it can't be beat. But, feature set wise? There's very little amongst the big boys from Xsi to Max to Lightwave 3D to Maya. One app may have more plug ins...or better dynamics...some have more bang fer buck feature wise right outta the box but I think it seems to come down to preference. I can't stand Xsi but love Lightwave. Loads use Max. Some swear by Maya. And we all know what Leonis swears by...
Well, the latest issue has a free, yep, FREE version of Cinema 4D version 6 which sold for £1, 300 quids around 2000! (Few years back...) This program had reviewers raving at the time. It really started to close the gap on the big boys around about this time in terms of its feature set and price.
And the one thing you get with Cinema 4D is the stunning capability of Body Paint 2...which looks absolutely amazing. I'm buying that for Lightwave as soon as I can afford it (and a G5...and DVD Studio Pro...and...)
The cover version Cinema 4D CE is a full working version of version 6, with particles(!) etc and will save etc. The only catch is that the render art is only 600x400. But for £79 (about $100 US?) you can upgrade and get Cinema 4D CE + (Version 6) with full rendering resolution upto 16,000 x 16,000 pixels! That should do you. This is a bargain. Offer is open until November I think. I bought the latest issue of Computer Arts just for this. You can't turn down Cinema 4D version 6 for nothing. It's a steal. Anybody want to get into 3D for cheap? Now is the time!
There's nothing wrong with Cinema 4D. As Lemon Bon Bon said, it is largely the skill and talent of the creator. The computer and the software are just the tools. Cinema 4D's interface reminds me a lot of Alias PowerAnimator.
Placebo, if you want to check out some other options, go to dvgarage.com.
In addition to offering some pretty good deals on software, they have a lot of tutorials available as well. For instance, you can get their 3d toolkit for $99. It includes a version of Electric Image Universe and a bunch of tutorials. They also have many different kits to teach different aspects of CG, such as compositing.
It's headed up by Alex Lindsay who used to work for ILM. He has a bunch of pros contributing and the goal is to train the next generation of CG artists.
Why on Earth would you buy Cinema 4D? Seriously, it's mediocre.
1) Academicsuperstore.com
2) There are better products for cheaper, especially if you're a newbie to 3D. Get something like Carrara first. Then I'd personally recommend Electric Image or FormZ (or both) depending on where you're interests lie.
ARGH!
FIRST Cinema is NOT mediocore. Things like Carrara and Pixels 3D ARE!
Carrara, Pixels, Strata 3D are in the same league
Cinema's main competitor is Lightwave and even 3D MAX in some aspect. Medicore? Eh?
SECOND Cinema is being used in Mills film, ILM, and now Sony Image work (BodyPaint and Cinema)
THIRD FormZ is only good for architecture type of stuff
FORTH EIU is in between Cinema/LW and XSI/Maya. It's fast but the animation side is still weak.
FIFTH Getting both FormZ and EIU is ideal but the price is getting too high (even higher than just getting XSI which can do what these two apps can do)
And on it went, the 3D app debate, for twenty-two pages and five weeks....
Seriously, when you weed out the hopelessly bad apps, it come down to nothing short of preference. For example, Lemon likes Lighwave's text based interface and seperated modeling and rendering tools. But I love having icons to represent tools, and I would hate not having all the modeling, animating, and rendering capabilities of a software package integrated into a single application.
So, my preferences would point towards an all-in-one app like Maya 5.0 or Cinema 4D R8. And since I want an app with a good learning curve, I'd choose Cinema 4D.
So, my preferences would point towards an all-in-one app like Maya 5.0 or Cinema 4D R8. And since I want an app with a good learning curve, I'd choose Cinema 4D.
So, which one are you going to get?
Did you check out the links for the free copy of Cinema 4d version 6?
Cinema 4D version 6 for nothing but the price of a magazine?
Of course the skill of the user has a lot to do with it, but there are many ways to get a result in 3D, and for what I'd consider to be the best way, C4D and Lightwave tend to push the user away from. i.e. the impression I get is that they emphasize lighting, texturing, and highly computer interpolated modeling techniques.
Granted I have something of a slanted judgement, but any program that doesn't have a crap-ton of spline modeling tools that work as advertised is a mediocre modeler. Any program can do simple solids, and a lot can make subdivision solids, but what really separates the men from the boys is the ability to handle curved surfaces built to a stringent spec. I couldn't get C4D to do this effectively. Maybe now they've fixed that. Lightwave, last I checked hadn't even a NURBS functionality.
One last thing: FormZ is not just for architecture. It's for when precision counts.
I don't know Placebo, but if he ever does decide to go into I.D. or Architecture, C4D will give him bad habits. And no app in the 3D world worth it's salt has a good learning curve.
The reason large studios go with XSI and Maya over programs like Lightwave, Cinema 4D, and even 3DS Max, is that XSI and Maya are both built from the ground up to be extremely extensible. Scripting and plug-in development for these packages are made very easy and there's a ton of support for it.
If you're using the package as it is out of the box, with no plans to script or develop your own plug-ins, you can produce adequate work in any of those packages. However, doing serious procedural modeling, animation, or shading usually requires scripting or plug-in development.
Cinema 4D, by the way, does have a very interesting scripting language that some of my coworkers really like, although it's not as deeply integrated as the scripting capabilities in Maya or XSI.
Yes, I did buy that computer with my hard earned money, and my parents probably wouldn't have picked up the tab otherwise. I do confess that my mother (a highscool librarian) helped with her faculty discount. But otherwise, the computer was bought with my money.
My dad made me buy Applecare, though, and now I don't have enough cash for Cinema 4D. But I'll be able to get enough money somehow. Maybe weedle $150 out of them both.
Looks like I'll be mowing my own lawn for the forseeable future...
We just got a G5 with 1.25 GB ram in today. With 10.2.7 things are fast - no issues there. With 7B68 things are faster but not as much as you would think. The system just behaves better. I opened 20 apps in 7B68 (just in applications folder) and all were open in 23 seconds. This includes imovie and idvd. What is nice is that the sysem is responsive while the apps are opening. I am reloading 10.2.7 and will see how that same test does.
The art on display there is testament to what you can achieve with Cinema 4D.
Xsi and Maya may have scripting...zzzZZZzzzz...but so what?
It won't be long before Lightwave or Cinema catch up with that. Lightwave's script is already advancing.
Out of the box? Lightwave and Cinema offer more bang for the buck. Couple that with Bodypaint 2 and any 3D artist should be in heaven.
Xool. Let us know how the dual 2 gigger 'snap, zip, crackle and pop' goes. Seen the case in the flesh! GORGEOUS! I played with a 1.6 G5 on Saturday. Tried a 1000 dpi document with a 200 brush. It choked. Well, not really. But it just couldn't keep up with the cursor! Seemed okay on less demanding stuff. Can open plenty of apps without sweating. Not overly impressed. Didn't expect to be. Seemed comparable to a dual G4. Wanted to try a dual G5. Didn't have one in. Not until mid OCT!!!
Xsi and Maya may have scripting...zzzZZZzzzz...but so what?
Hey, try making something longer than a 30 second TV spot without scripting and see how far you get.
Quote:
It won't be long before Lightwave or Cinema catch up with that. Lightwave's script is already advancing.
If you read my post above you'll see that Cinema 4D's scripting language has some fans. As for Lightwave, the scripting language is just as badly tacked-on as it is in Max.
The point is that extensibility and customizability are key to these packages being used on longer-format projects. Maya and XSI are first-rate. Max is pretty good but requires plug-in development as the scripting environment is weak. Cinema 4D and Lightwave are definitely behind, although each has their occasional clever idea.
For short projects, any one of them can be used to get good results.
Incidentally, as far as Lightwave and C4D catching up, since their development budget lags far behind that of Maya, XSI, or 3DS Max, it's hard to see how that can happen.
Unpacking everything was fun. The G5 is much larger than a G4 tower or Beige G3 tower. It is large, solid, and made of metal. Good stuff. You have no idea how great a 20" display is until you sit down and start using one at you desk. It too is large. Again, good stuff. (There is a drawback though -- just hold on...)
Ok, so its all setup -- fairly minimally. Just the G5, display, KB, mouse, and soundsticks. And on the first boot, after showing the progress bar the machine froze up and the mouse cursor wouldn't move. I hadn't begun the Welcome process yet. A simple reboot and everything worked as advertised... although I did leave the soundsticks unplugged until after setup.
This machine is fast. I haven't pushed it far at all. All I've done is a little work and a little play. Mail is faster. Safari is fast. Office is fast. Soundtrack lagged when I switched applications, but I only have the minimum 512 MB of Ram. I did have a chance to run SimCity 4 at full screen, and it was actually scrolling smoothly! Just wait til I get a big city in there, hmmm....
Ok, so note about the large screen. You need a monster graphics card for this thing. I learned this lesson the last time, trying to drive my 19" CRT with my rev a Ti PowerBook. Not enough GPU! So I opted for the 9800 Pro thinking that all would be well. Sad thing is, I've seen some windows tear while being dragged (not LCD motion blur). I hope the graphics card can push the pixels! Only time will tell.
Once I add another GB of Ram and install Panther this thing will kick some serious booty!
Comments
Why on Earth would you buy Cinema 4D? Seriously, it's mediocre.
Don't say that in front of Leonis, fer Pete's sake...
Yer know, I think one or two are being a little harsh on Cinema 4D. Mediocre? More and more these days, I think it's just the skill of the user. I've see great results with most of the heavy hitters. I use Lightwave and think it can't be beat. But, feature set wise? There's very little amongst the big boys from Xsi to Max to Lightwave 3D to Maya. One app may have more plug ins...or better dynamics...some have more bang fer buck feature wise right outta the box but I think it seems to come down to preference. I can't stand Xsi but love Lightwave. Loads use Max. Some swear by Maya. And we all know what Leonis swears by...
Placebo, good news for you!
www.computerarts.com
or...
www.3dworldmag.com
Why so?
Well, the latest issue has a free, yep, FREE version of Cinema 4D version 6 which sold for £1, 300 quids around 2000! (Few years back...) This program had reviewers raving at the time. It really started to close the gap on the big boys around about this time in terms of its feature set and price.
And the one thing you get with Cinema 4D is the stunning capability of Body Paint 2...which looks absolutely amazing. I'm buying that for Lightwave as soon as I can afford it (and a G5...and DVD Studio Pro...and...)
The cover version Cinema 4D CE is a full working version of version 6, with particles(!) etc and will save etc. The only catch is that the render art is only 600x400. But for £79 (about $100 US?) you can upgrade and get Cinema 4D CE + (Version 6) with full rendering resolution upto 16,000 x 16,000 pixels! That should do you. This is a bargain. Offer is open until November I think. I bought the latest issue of Computer Arts just for this. You can't turn down Cinema 4D version 6 for nothing. It's a steal. Anybody want to get into 3D for cheap? Now is the time!
It also comes with 80 megs of tutorials!
It's certainly not a mediocre offer!
Lemon Bon Bon
Placebo, if you want to check out some other options, go to dvgarage.com.
In addition to offering some pretty good deals on software, they have a lot of tutorials available as well. For instance, you can get their 3d toolkit for $99. It includes a version of Electric Image Universe and a bunch of tutorials. They also have many different kits to teach different aspects of CG, such as compositing.
It's headed up by Alex Lindsay who used to work for ILM. He has a bunch of pros contributing and the goal is to train the next generation of CG artists.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Why on Earth would you buy Cinema 4D? Seriously, it's mediocre.
1) Academicsuperstore.com
2) There are better products for cheaper, especially if you're a newbie to 3D. Get something like Carrara first. Then I'd personally recommend Electric Image or FormZ (or both) depending on where you're interests lie.
ARGH!
FIRST Cinema is NOT mediocore. Things like Carrara and Pixels 3D ARE!
Carrara, Pixels, Strata 3D are in the same league
Cinema's main competitor is Lightwave and even 3D MAX in some aspect. Medicore? Eh?
SECOND Cinema is being used in Mills film, ILM, and now Sony Image work (BodyPaint and Cinema)
THIRD FormZ is only good for architecture type of stuff
FORTH EIU is in between Cinema/LW and XSI/Maya. It's fast but the animation side is still weak.
FIFTH Getting both FormZ and EIU is ideal but the price is getting too high (even higher than just getting XSI which can do what these two apps can do)
Lemon Bon Bon
Seriously, when you weed out the hopelessly bad apps, it come down to nothing short of preference. For example, Lemon likes Lighwave's text based interface and seperated modeling and rendering tools. But I love having icons to represent tools, and I would hate not having all the modeling, animating, and rendering capabilities of a software package integrated into a single application.
So, my preferences would point towards an all-in-one app like Maya 5.0 or Cinema 4D R8. And since I want an app with a good learning curve, I'd choose Cinema 4D.
So, my preferences would point towards an all-in-one app like Maya 5.0 or Cinema 4D R8. And since I want an app with a good learning curve, I'd choose Cinema 4D.
So, which one are you going to get?
Did you check out the links for the free copy of Cinema 4d version 6?
Cinema 4D version 6 for nothing but the price of a magazine?
I've already got mine!
Lemon Bon Bon
Granted I have something of a slanted judgement, but any program that doesn't have a crap-ton of spline modeling tools that work as advertised is a mediocre modeler. Any program can do simple solids, and a lot can make subdivision solids, but what really separates the men from the boys is the ability to handle curved surfaces built to a stringent spec. I couldn't get C4D to do this effectively. Maybe now they've fixed that. Lightwave, last I checked hadn't even a NURBS functionality.
One last thing: FormZ is not just for architecture. It's for when precision counts.
I don't know Placebo, but if he ever does decide to go into I.D. or Architecture, C4D will give him bad habits. And no app in the 3D world worth it's salt has a good learning curve.
If you're using the package as it is out of the box, with no plans to script or develop your own plug-ins, you can produce adequate work in any of those packages. However, doing serious procedural modeling, animation, or shading usually requires scripting or plug-in development.
Cinema 4D, by the way, does have a very interesting scripting language that some of my coworkers really like, although it's not as deeply integrated as the scripting capabilities in Maya or XSI.
-- Mark
Originally posted by Placebo
Yes, I did buy that computer with my hard earned money, and my parents probably wouldn't have picked up the tab otherwise. I do confess that my mother (a highscool librarian) helped with her faculty discount. But otherwise, the computer was bought with my money.
My dad made me buy Applecare, though, and now I don't have enough cash for Cinema 4D. But I'll be able to get enough money somehow. Maybe weedle $150 out of them both.
Looks like I'll be mowing my own lawn for the forseeable future...
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Cinema 4D version 6 for nothing but the price of a magazine?
Lemon Bon Bon
yea thats flippin' awsome! thanks for the heads up LBB
gonna go search out a copy...
Originally posted by MrSparkle
Are you sure about that? (You shouldn't be.)
100% sure of that...
Originally posted by Placebo
Here come the photos:
Art. Pure art.
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/os10geek/accessories.jpg
So uncluttered.
This is the strip of ports (notice the distinctly BLUE light)
My new setup:
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/os10geek/compsetup.jpg
And, last but not least, my $3000 purchase with me in the Applestore.
I hope you enjoyed those, but keep in mind that photos do no justice.
[edited pics with enormous white borders to links to restore board formatting - Amorph]
Without question this (now) little dude is going to rule the world someday.
Godspeed bro.
Originally posted by buckeye
Without question this (now) little dude is going to rule the world someday.
Godspeed bro.
Yeah...ruling the world only takes time...and money...hey, can I have a buck?
Originally posted by MacUsers
100% sure of that...
I happen to know you are wrong.
I'll report in later tonight!
Originally posted by MrSparkle
I happen to know you are wrong.
Well my friend knows the guy that makes them and he told them that they use C4D
anyway... big deal
The art on display there is testament to what you can achieve with Cinema 4D.
Xsi and Maya may have scripting...zzzZZZzzzz...but so what?
It won't be long before Lightwave or Cinema catch up with that. Lightwave's script is already advancing.
Out of the box? Lightwave and Cinema offer more bang for the buck. Couple that with Bodypaint 2 and any 3D artist should be in heaven.
Xool. Let us know how the dual 2 gigger 'snap, zip, crackle and pop' goes. Seen the case in the flesh! GORGEOUS! I played with a 1.6 G5 on Saturday. Tried a 1000 dpi document with a 200 brush. It choked. Well, not really. But it just couldn't keep up with the cursor! Seemed okay on less demanding stuff. Can open plenty of apps without sweating. Not overly impressed. Didn't expect to be. Seemed comparable to a dual G4. Wanted to try a dual G5. Didn't have one in. Not until mid OCT!!!
yeeesh.
Roll on Rev B fer cryin' out loud...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Xsi and Maya may have scripting...zzzZZZzzzz...but so what?
Hey, try making something longer than a 30 second TV spot without scripting and see how far you get.
It won't be long before Lightwave or Cinema catch up with that. Lightwave's script is already advancing.
If you read my post above you'll see that Cinema 4D's scripting language has some fans. As for Lightwave, the scripting language is just as badly tacked-on as it is in Max.
The point is that extensibility and customizability are key to these packages being used on longer-format projects. Maya and XSI are first-rate. Max is pretty good but requires plug-in development as the scripting environment is weak. Cinema 4D and Lightwave are definitely behind, although each has their occasional clever idea.
For short projects, any one of them can be used to get good results.
Incidentally, as far as Lightwave and C4D catching up, since their development budget lags far behind that of Maya, XSI, or 3DS Max, it's hard to see how that can happen.
-- Mark
Unpacking everything was fun. The G5 is much larger than a G4 tower or Beige G3 tower. It is large, solid, and made of metal. Good stuff. You have no idea how great a 20" display is until you sit down and start using one at you desk. It too is large. Again, good stuff. (There is a drawback though -- just hold on...)
Ok, so its all setup -- fairly minimally. Just the G5, display, KB, mouse, and soundsticks. And on the first boot, after showing the progress bar the machine froze up and the mouse cursor wouldn't move. I hadn't begun the Welcome process yet. A simple reboot and everything worked as advertised... although I did leave the soundsticks unplugged until after setup.
This machine is fast. I haven't pushed it far at all. All I've done is a little work and a little play. Mail is faster. Safari is fast. Office is fast. Soundtrack lagged when I switched applications, but I only have the minimum 512 MB of Ram. I did have a chance to run SimCity 4 at full screen, and it was actually scrolling smoothly! Just wait til I get a big city in there, hmmm....
Ok, so note about the large screen. You need a monster graphics card for this thing. I learned this lesson the last time, trying to drive my 19" CRT with my rev a Ti PowerBook. Not enough GPU! So I opted for the 9800 Pro thinking that all would be well. Sad thing is, I've seen some windows tear while being dragged (not LCD motion blur). I hope the graphics card can push the pixels! Only time will tell.
Once I add another GB of Ram and install Panther this thing will kick some serious booty!