Reason I am a Liberal: Infrastructure in deep trouble/decay
THIS is why I am a Liberal.
we need to realize that we are not isolated atomized 'rugged individuals' and that we are part of a civilization.
It reminds me of the book I just read about the real reasons for the collapse of the Roman Empire: lack of concern for, or understanding about the infrastructure upon which thier civilization rested.
We need to take care of this issue. It is like so many of the issues which, when looked at squarely, do not jibe with the rhetoric which wags the index finger and yells "we are #1":
Poverty, sprawl, fat, with unlivable traffic ridden ex-urban cities, crumbling schools, lying through their teeth leadership, spiteful political discourse, more gas consumption and dependance on Arab oil than thirty years ago, and no plan to look at the real heating up of the planet (in fact 'naw that aint real') . . . plus guys with hatred are aiming at us everyday . .
. . . and then this too: our very physical foundations are crumbling and in need of serious care and attention . . . which, of course, would cost a lot of money . . . which would mean more taxes . . . or at least a redirection of spending. And that means that none of what is needed will get done
why?
because of the ruling trendy ideology of blindness du-jour: Conservatism
It has become trendy to think that Government is meaningless and taxes are always bad. wrong.
We all live on a precarious interwoven mesh of civil services and supports . . . if we privatize them all then the only thing that will ensure their stability is . . .nothing.
Greed doesn't ensure that public and civil well being are cared for . . . but greed rules the roost when corporations do all of the governing of the systems that sustain a civilization.
America is a great country but we need to stop thinking that we are all seperate and isolated and start thinking like members of civilization or it will continue to crumble at the roots of its physical well being . . .
we need to realize that we are not isolated atomized 'rugged individuals' and that we are part of a civilization.
It reminds me of the book I just read about the real reasons for the collapse of the Roman Empire: lack of concern for, or understanding about the infrastructure upon which thier civilization rested.
We need to take care of this issue. It is like so many of the issues which, when looked at squarely, do not jibe with the rhetoric which wags the index finger and yells "we are #1":
Poverty, sprawl, fat, with unlivable traffic ridden ex-urban cities, crumbling schools, lying through their teeth leadership, spiteful political discourse, more gas consumption and dependance on Arab oil than thirty years ago, and no plan to look at the real heating up of the planet (in fact 'naw that aint real') . . . plus guys with hatred are aiming at us everyday . .
. . . and then this too: our very physical foundations are crumbling and in need of serious care and attention . . . which, of course, would cost a lot of money . . . which would mean more taxes . . . or at least a redirection of spending. And that means that none of what is needed will get done
why?
because of the ruling trendy ideology of blindness du-jour: Conservatism
It has become trendy to think that Government is meaningless and taxes are always bad. wrong.
We all live on a precarious interwoven mesh of civil services and supports . . . if we privatize them all then the only thing that will ensure their stability is . . .nothing.
Greed doesn't ensure that public and civil well being are cared for . . . but greed rules the roost when corporations do all of the governing of the systems that sustain a civilization.
America is a great country but we need to stop thinking that we are all seperate and isolated and start thinking like members of civilization or it will continue to crumble at the roots of its physical well being . . .
Comments
both political sides see the signs as well. On a nation as a whole yes especially up north, and to the west it seems like the states are only spending money on standardized tests, prisons, or something.
I think we are still reeling from the massive sweeping cuts done by the government state and whole that was done in the 90's.
Have you ever been to texas? I thought we had horrible roads, and bad tasting water... and now when I've visited other states.. I'm thankful. I didn't know I had it so good.
Originally posted by pfflam
why?
because of the ruling trendy ideology of blindness du-jour: Conservatism
Of course! And Limbaugh's been telling me that everything's the fault of the liberals! His answers always did seem too simplistic for me. I'm wondering, though. What about all the taxes government is ALREADY collecting? It's not exactly chump change, you know. Why isn't any of THAT money making a dent in these infrastructure needs?
Republicans that I know are just fine with spending for infrastructure. It is when they take the infrastructure money, redirect it to poverty programs that you didn't vote for, and then start charging tolls, levys and other fees for something you thought you already paid for.
We have witnessed this yet again here in California. The governor is being recalled for in part, tripling the auto registration fees. We are told by him that 60 million is "wasted money that we do not have" to run the recall election. Yet 60 million to fingerprint everyone so illegal aliens can get drivers licenses isn't too much money.
They raised the sales tax a percent almost a decade ago to pay for the infrastructure repairs from the Northridge earthquake. They never took it back down and it is over 8% in most parts of the state. Now they wanted to raise it yet another percent to cover a budget shortfall.
Meanwhile at the school I teach at, they are sending out half a dozen copies of free lunch fliers begging people to sign up for the program.
Use the government as it was intended and amazingly even the most conservative person will see the common good. Use it to be Robin Hood and steal and watch it be neglected into dust.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Republicans that I know are just fine with spending for infrastructure. It is when they take the infrastructure money, redirect it to poverty programs that you didn't vote for, and then start charging tolls, levys and other fees for something you thought you already paid for.
So welfare or affordable housing aren't infrastructure? Health care wouldn't be infrastructure? Why do you lie so?
Originally posted by trumptman
Use the government as it was intended and amazingly even the most conservative person will see the common good. Use it to be Robin Hood and steal and watch it be neglected into dust.
read: pry our greenbacks from our cold, dead fingers.
Originally posted by trumptman
So I suppose now we can stop all the wealth redistribution programs and direct the money toward infrastructure?
Republicans that I know are just fine with spending for infrastructure. It is when they take the infrastructure money, redirect it to poverty programs that you didn't vote for, and then start charging tolls, levys and other fees for something you thought you already paid for.
You pay for Welfare to keep people from stealing your shit. The Nanny-state is the price you pay for your security. Imagine a million poor folks competing for your TV. Throw them some crumbs, and they leave your cheese alone. Or deport them.
Originally posted by lemon
You pay for Welfare to keep people from stealing your shit. The Nanny-state is the price you pay for your security. Imagine a million poor folks competing for your TV. Throw them some crumbs, and they leave your cheese alone. Or deport them.
Obviously you have not read any statistics about "poverty" and what appliances they have. I assure you that every poor child I have met has a television.
The Nanny-state is not the price I pay for security. Your contentions are just bullshit fear tactics.
Nick
Originally posted by bunge
So welfare or affordable housing aren't infrastructure? Health care wouldn't be infrastructure? Why do you lie so?
No they aren't infrastructure. What are you smoking? Infrastructure is exactly as the article contended. Dams, power grid, roads, school and public buildings, bridges, etc.
Health care and welfare aren't infrastructure. Your wishful thinking does not change food stamps into a power grid.
However I did need someone to prove my point that liberals take gladly from infrastructure funds and divert it to wealth redistribution funds, so thanks for proving my point for me.
As for Shawn..
read: pry our greenbacks from our cold, dead fingers.
Our...our... how did mine become our? I'll be coming over to borrow "our" car, and "our" Powerbook 550 later on Shawn.
Because greenbacks paid for all those items of yours of course.
How much money have you given to charity this year Shawn? I want to follow your fine caring example.
Nick
n.
1.\tAn underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2.\tThe basic facilities,services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
welfare and health care would be services.
Originally posted by trumptman
As for Shawn..
Our...our... how did mine become our? I'll be coming over to borrow "our" car, and "our" Powerbook 550 later on Shawn.
Because greenbacks paid for all those items of yours of course.
How much money have you given to charity this year Shawn? I want to follow your fine caring example.
Nick
You seemed to be speaking for all conservatives. Unless you just want let government "turn to dust." In that case, what's a little dust that can't be dusted? Mom's got the
Remember though, our pathetic government is only a reflection of our apathetic pathetic selves....
This is not a liberal / conservative issue. This is a government run away with (new programs) issue regardless of political spectrum. In all cases both conservative and liberal influence within government have neglected the (old programs) such as we find in need of repair in this stated link. So much (pork) is added to simple construction works etc. that in the end the final costs run away from what the public wishes to pay. Governments be they State, Local, what have you become very much aware of the deficits that result due to this. Sadly much of government is run very very poorly reacting to needs after something is broken rather than planning for it in the first place. What we do have is a situation where by the political leadership on all sides is less than worthy of our support. Special interests and "groups" influence and buy off political figures and in the end the people are not fully represented and the people are not taken care of in a democratic style. The system needs change and the first change is doing away with the special interests. The country should be run like a business not a free for all vote buying machine.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I agree here with trumptman 100%
This is not a liberal / conservative issue. This is a government run away with (new programs) issue regardless of political spectrum. In all cases both conservative and liberal influence within government have neglected the (old programs) such as we find in need of repair in this stated link. So much (pork) is added to simple construction works etc. that in the end the final costs run away from what the public wishes to pay. Governments be they State, Local, what have you become very much aware of the deficits that result due to this. Sadly much of government is run very very poorly reacting to needs after something is broken rather than planning for it in the first place. What we do have is a situation where by the political leadership on all sides is less than worthy of our support. Special interests and "groups" influence and buy off political figures and in the end the people are not fully represented and the people are not taken care of in a democratic style. The system needs change and the first change is doing away with the special interests. The country should be run like a business not a free for all vote buying machine.
Fellowship
Ah... so they're both at fault!
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
welfare and health care would be services.
Welfare isn't a service. It's a transfer payment. It's income redistribution. Health care is a service but it still isn't infrastructure, though.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
in·fra·struc·ture (?n?fr?-str?k'ch?r)_Pronunciation Key
n.
1.\tAn underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2.\tThe basic facilities,services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
welfare and health care would be services.
Thanks Superkaratemonkeydeathcar. I love having to type out the entire name.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
I hate it when people make arguments they know aren't true.
I don't know. You say Welfare isn't a service, but that doesn't make it true. I consider it a service so we should probably decide on a definition and decide where it falls. It's not 'income redistribution' for the sake of income redistribution and it is an essential service for many people.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Of course! And Limbaugh's been telling me that everything's the fault of the liberals!
And we know he's a liar, so we know that truth must be the opposite of what he says!
Originally posted by bunge
I don't know...
You do know but you think it's in your interest to pretend you don't.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
You do know but you think it's in your interest to pretend you don't.
Great Scott! Why resort to a personal attack? I step up and try to resolve a question and you attack me. That doesn't advance the discussion in the least.
Welfare is not income redistribution any more than any other program that helps people. Sorry. Cook County Hospital is now 'income redistribution' in your eyes?
And by dictionary definition, even if it were income redistribution for the sake of income redistribution, it would still be a service. So you're wrong on both counts.