Question about G5

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Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
My dad wants to know if I buy a 1.6Ghz G5, will we ever be able to upgrade it to a higher speed if a third party decides to offer an upgrade... or is it there forever and we can't do anything to the processor... I dont think that that is possible does anyone know?
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  • Reply 1 of 22
    stevesteve Posts: 523member
    Because the G5 thrives among its rich bandwidth, the potential is questionable. Fitting a processor on an expansion card made sense back when G4's only had 133MHz busses in the high-end, and PCI could accommodate that. Even with PCI-X, 800MHz FSB is some very big shoes to fill. That, and the day of the daughter card is over. The G5 is probably the first step, especially with its perfectly-engineered cooling, of a new era in which systems are built around the processor, not the other way around.



    That said, the dual 2Ghz is by far the biggest bargain. With Moore's Law proving less true with the coming years, I can see that machine lasting a half-decade in the very least. Get yourself one of those nice 20" Cinema Displays, and you won't need to think about upgrading until we're using sub-atomic particles to do the floating-point wizardry. Okay, so maybe that's a slight stretch, but still.
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  • Reply 2 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Steve

    Because the G5 thrives among its rich bandwidth, the potential is questionable. Fitting a processor on an expansion card made sense back when G4's only had 133MHz busses in the high-end, and PCI could accommodate that. Even with PCI-X, 800MHz FSB is some very big shoes to fill. That, and the day of the daughter card is over. The G5 is probably the first step, especially with its perfectly-engineered cooling, of a new era in which systems are built around the processor, not the other way around.



    That said, the dual 2Ghz is by far the biggest bargain. With Moore's Law proving less true with the coming years, I can see that machine lasting a half-decade in the very least. Get yourself one of those nice 20" Cinema Displays, and you won't need to think about upgrading until we're using sub-atomic particles to do the floating-point wizardry. Okay, so maybe that's a slight stretch, but still.




    Um. . . . . The processor daughtercard is not PCI at all. It's AMD hypertransport IIRC. If you can upgrade x86 chips, there's no reason why G5 upgrades can't happen. They will definitely exist some time down the road a bit, but the fact that the G5 uses hypertransport just means that uppgrade manufacturers have less engineering to do, and the time to market will actually be shorter than usual.



    So yeah, there should be plenty of upgrades available for the g5.
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  • Reply 3 of 22
    stevesteve Posts: 523member
    I didn't say that daughter card meant PCI. I meant that the concept of the daughter card was dying. Does the G5 even allow for that sort of thing with its highly-specific architecture? I thought Apple's connection to AMD ended with AirPort.
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  • Reply 4 of 22
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacUsers

    My dad wants to know if I buy a 1.6Ghz G5, will we ever be able to upgrade it to a higher speed if a third party decides to offer an upgrade... or is it there forever and we can't do anything to the processor... I dont think that that is possible does anyone know?



    The bottom line is that no one knows for sure what will be doable in the future. Chances are you will be able to. Even if it means sending it some place. But, really, are you going to want to upgrade a 1.6ghz G5 any time soon? And, if not, wouldn't it then be time for a new computer?
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  • Reply 5 of 22
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Has your father ever upgraded a CPU?
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  • Reply 6 of 22
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Steve

    I thought Apple's connection to AMD ended with AirPort.



    <nitpicking>



    AMD also made the SCSI controllers for old, old Macs, like the SE and Plus. If you open an old compact Mac you should see the AMD logo on one of the chips near the SCSI port.



    </nitpicking>



    Actually I had no idea that AMD and Apple were linked at all these days. The SCSI controllers where the only example I knew of.
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  • Reply 7 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Has your father ever upgraded a CPU?



    We have upgraded our old PowerBooks, iMacs, Performas, and Power Macs
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  • Reply 8 of 22
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    Hypertransport isn't owned by AMD, it's a consortium with the following as the executive committee:



    Quote:

    Advanced Micro Devices, Alliance Semiconductors, Apple Computers, Broadcom Corporation, Cisco Systems, NVIDIA, PMC-Sierra, Sun Microsystems, and Transmeta



    From www.hypertransport.org.
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  • Reply 9 of 22
    Maybe someone could settle this by popping off a G5 heat sink and telling us if the processor sits in a ZIF or soldered on.



    ZIF = upgradable



    no ZIF = love what you got.
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  • Reply 10 of 22
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacUsers

    We have upgraded our old PowerBooks, iMacs, Performas, and Power Macs



    I see. For some people this need to upgrade is theoretical because they never have done it and never will.
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  • Reply 11 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by \\/\\/ickes

    Maybe someone could settle this by popping off a G5 heat sink and telling us if the processor sits in a ZIF or soldered on.



    ZIF = upgradable



    no ZIF = love what you got.




    Given that the same motherboard is used in multiple configs (I think) I would bet that there is a socket.
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  • Reply 12 of 22
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    The G5 has a processor socket (or two). I bet there will be upgrades.
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  • Reply 13 of 22
    cubedudecubedude Posts: 1,556member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    Given that the same motherboard is used in multiple configs (I think) I would bet that there is a socket.



    Doesn't the 1.6 have a different motherboard than the 1.8 and Dual 2.0? Since the 1.6 only allows for 4GB of RAM, I though it must have a differeant motherboard.
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  • Reply 14 of 22
    pesipesi Posts: 424member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CubeDude

    Doesn't the 1.6 have a different motherboard than the 1.8 and Dual 2.0? Since the 1.6 only allows for 4GB of RAM, I though it must have a differeant motherboard.



    the 1.6 does use a different, yet similar motherboard. the main differences being the RAM slots and PCI expansion.



    this tech note descibes the processor module:



    link



    i haven't found any info as to whether the 1.8 and 2.0 use different motherboards (i.e. if the 1.8 has the connection necessary for a 2nd CPU. i'm guessing not)
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  • Reply 15 of 22
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    The G5s are on daughtercards, which attach to LIF sockets (HyperTransport is not used to connect the CPUs). The 1.6 and 1.8GHz motherboards only have one LIF socket, so upgrading to a dual is not going to happen unless some incredibly clever upgrader finds a way to get two 970s on one card (or until IBM releases a dual core 970).



    As far as processor upgrades, the answer is maybe: The bus and the system controller are clocked much closer to CPU speed than in the Motorola solutions, but we know that the 970 is capable of more bus ratios than the one Apple is using, and we know Apple is using the highest one (2:1 DDR). So a CPU upgrade that uses a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio is theoretically possible.



    The nature of Elastic Bus is such that it will take some serious engineering work to make the upgrades happen. So don't expect them too soon or too cheap.
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  • Reply 16 of 22
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    I'm willing to bet someone else's money that there will be upgrades sometime after the first .09u parts appear. As the architecture is understood and faster/cooler/cheaper G5 class chips roll out, the upgrade makers will have had plenty of time to dream up neat solutions and make them work well.



    It seems impossible that Apple will hold the bus ratios at 2:1 even for the next revision, 3:1 and 4:1 seem likely candidates -- CPU's tend to scale a lot faster than memory/FSB throughput.



    Already I see the possiblitiy of one neat solution for over-clockers with DEEP pockets: DUAL G5 upgrade cards. Seems nuts now, but with a process shrink more cooling, why not? (So long as the technical gremlins can be tamed)



    Imagine a dual G5 card that plugs into the old SP slot. (Certainly won't have as much total bandwidth available) but you could see a certain class of user forking over the cash to turn his dual 2Ghz into something like a QUAD 2.5 !!!



    I'll say the first upgrades will appear within 18-24 months.
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  • Reply 17 of 22
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    Do the G5 CPUs actually come out? Anyone with a G5 care to experiment, to enlighten Mac owners everywhere?
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  • Reply 18 of 22
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  • Reply 19 of 22
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Looks like the 970 is on a card:







    And with the motherboard of the 1.8GHz G5 you can surely see that the LIF slot for the second CPU simply was not soldered on where as the mobo for the dual has both soldered on.







    I can only assume that the 1.6 mobo is further restricted by not having 4 of the DIMM slots soldered on.



    Also looks like the rectifiers have their own little mini heatsink:







    Notice the heat pumps moving the heat towards the piggy back heat sink. Here are some more pics at MacScoobyDoobie.
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  • Reply 20 of 22
    Lots of capacitors. hmmm. must be a lot of independent power sources because they all look like 100 nF.



    Dork Alert.



    I'm impressed and confused with the G5. I guess I should hunt for a datasheet. I guess the end message is that if there are smart people on earth, there will be a g5 upgrade. Hell, there was a 7200 upgrade.
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