What do you think is racist?
Ok... I don't post in AO much but...
Your personal ideas and opinions belong to you... If they deal with race and conflict with others or the majority of others then you are labeled as a racist.
I have been called a racist and a Nazi only because I am German. This is ironic because someone calling me racist because I am German is himself a racist.
What I dislike the most is that because I am German or more importantly white, I have to keep my mouth shut if I see an inequality in any situation involving race. Failing to do so will get me labeled as a racist.
For example, the computer service industry in Toronto is 90% non-white. This is the field I want to start my carrier in, but doing so is hard because most companies will hire people they feel comfortable with... relate with... and speak there home language. Finding a job will be hard but what kills me the most is that people that are less skilled/experienced will be hired before me just because they are of a given race.
Today in my high school computer networking class (where white people are 2 strong in a class of 27) I had to teach my peers how to convert binary numbers to hex because the teacher was new to the subject and did not know how. Then it hit me that some of the students in my class will move on to be in the computer industry in one form or another and I helped them with one (small) step along the way. So I helped my peers get a job that I have better skills for.
So you see that I am not racist, I just feel outnumbered in an industry that seems to draw colour lines.
Your personal ideas and opinions belong to you... If they deal with race and conflict with others or the majority of others then you are labeled as a racist.
I have been called a racist and a Nazi only because I am German. This is ironic because someone calling me racist because I am German is himself a racist.
What I dislike the most is that because I am German or more importantly white, I have to keep my mouth shut if I see an inequality in any situation involving race. Failing to do so will get me labeled as a racist.
For example, the computer service industry in Toronto is 90% non-white. This is the field I want to start my carrier in, but doing so is hard because most companies will hire people they feel comfortable with... relate with... and speak there home language. Finding a job will be hard but what kills me the most is that people that are less skilled/experienced will be hired before me just because they are of a given race.
Today in my high school computer networking class (where white people are 2 strong in a class of 27) I had to teach my peers how to convert binary numbers to hex because the teacher was new to the subject and did not know how. Then it hit me that some of the students in my class will move on to be in the computer industry in one form or another and I helped them with one (small) step along the way. So I helped my peers get a job that I have better skills for.
So you see that I am not racist, I just feel outnumbered in an industry that seems to draw colour lines.
Comments
What is most important is what Morals you stand for and what "good" you can bring to this world. Ignorant people will label you a Nazi or Racist because your German but as in all times of strife there were many Germans against what Hitler.
No group of people think monolithically unless you're talking about the fictional Borg on Star Trek.
To be honest with you I am starting to look at things like the Confederate Flag differently now. Realizing that those who wish to deceive me want my hatred to take the path of least resistance and that is usually through lack of education.
Good luck to you and your career. Don't worry about issues of Race. The Cream always rises to the Top. In other words imagine applying for a Job and you only being one of 3 White Candidates amongst say 18 Asians. What you perceive as a potential weakness could become a strength if you were to go into the interview and blow them away. They would remember you because you would stand out in contrast to the other applicants. Being a Minority isn't always such a bad thing
I was just having a bad day and wanted to get stuff off my chest...
Sometimes I wish we were all like the Borg... well maybe not... My love life is too important to me.
Well I never liked the smell of AO so I am outta here...
Originally posted by Scott
My two cents. "German" is not a race it's a nationality. Also one that hates Jews is not a racist but an anti-semite.
German is a nationality, but isn't Jew a race?
For example: on the Howard Dean thread there are many Republicans on that board that don't hesitate for a single instant to label Howard Dean's campaign as inherently racist because it's core grassroots contingent is predominantly white. But, no one will do the same thing to Al Sharpton and point out that is core contingent is black. Why is this? Is Sharpton's main following comprised of people of color. Yes. Is that wrong? Absolutely not and should be applauded!
Why is it then, that the white constituent is not allowed to rally, or be angry, or feel disenfranchised without being highlighted and systematically discredited because of their race? Answer: because it's fashionable to label anything whitey does as "racist" and therefore "evil." Not only is it fashionable, but whitey is so afraid of this label that they will not attack the hypocrisy head on. Shame.
Originally posted by bunge
Originally posted by Scott
My two cents. "German" is not a race it's a nationality. Also one that hates Jews is not a racist but an anti-semite.
German is a nationality, but isn't Jew a race?
For those too impatient to read it whole (I'll try to keep it short, though): no, Jews are not a race, the words ?people?, or ?nationality? are more accurate.
No such thing in existence as ?race?, there is such a thing as racism, alas.
(anti-semitism is one form of racism, among many others).
The word ?racism? is used for reasons of convention as well as convenience, although it doesn't describe with much precision what it names, the sames goes for the word ?anti-semitism?.
To hate, harm, or otherwise mistreat people because they happen to be part of a certain group of humans, is termed ?racism?.
That behaviour is as old as humanity itself, and is one of its more negative traits, it became particularly virulent with the elaboration, in the last few centuries, of pseudoscientific theories dividing humans into hierarchies of ?races?. Hence the widespread use of the word ?racism? for said behavior.
Originally posted by Northgate
A racist is anyone who sticks out their index finger and labels an individual because of the color of their skin. Plain and simple.
For example: on the Howard Dean thread there are many Republicans (trumptman, SDW, et al) on that board that don't hesitate for a single instant to label Howard Dean's campaign as inherently racist because it's core grassroots contingent is predominantly white. But, no one will do the same thing to Al Sharpton and point out that is core contingent is black. Why is this? Is Sharpton's main following comprised of people of color. Yes. Is that wrong? Absolutely not and should be applauded!
Why is it then, that the white constituent is not allowed to rally, or be angry, or feel disenfranchised without being highlighted and systematically discredited because of their race? Answer: because it's fashionable to label anything whitey does as "racist" and therefore "evil." Not only is it fashionable, but whitey is so afraid of this label that they will not attack the hypocrisy head on. Shame.
With all due respect, I pretty much reject what you just said.
1. Your definition is too ambiguous. It assumes that labeling a person based on the color of their skin is always bad, and I can tell you that it's clearly not the case. I can label a person white, black, green, yellow, purple, blue for medical purposes- because real differences in disease and cancer rates exist between the races. I'm not bad and I'm certainly not racist to do so. Plainly and simply, plain and simple definitions of racism just cannot do.
2. The idea that whitey is now the grand victim in society at the expense of newly empowered minorities is not something I accept at all. I think we can all agree that perhaps some people have crossed the line in becoming zealous in rooting out racism. That much is true. An example? Well, I can't think of any, but I'm sure many others can. But whitey's still in power based at least partly on his or her historically racist past. There's no getting around the fact that we've only been 40 years removed from granting full citizenship to African-Americans. There's a lot of work yet to do- specifically in education- for African-Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities to achieve economic parity with whitey.
Some people suggest we do nothing- and I can tell you that that approach has decidedly racist overtones. We've held them down for hundreds of years, and to suggest we do nothing to correct those negative actions is to endorse the outcome of those hundreds of enslaved years. It's perfectly rational and good to criticize the efficacy of current affirmative action measures- but to do nothing is racist.
Do you by any chance own the movie, "Fight Club?"
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Some people suggest we do nothing- and I can tell you that that approach has decidedly racist overtones. We've held them down for hundreds of years, and to suggest we do nothing to correct those negative actions is to endorse the outcome of those hundreds of enslaved years. It's perfectly rational and good to criticize the efficacy of current affirmative action measures- but to do nothing is racist.
Do you by any chance own the movie, "Fight Club?"
Well I'm glad it was you holding them down and not me.
Of course my ancestors didn't even get to the country until 1906 as full blooded Italians, but I still get called whitey and get the full rant as if I was holding the whip on the plantation myself.
Of course judging me and my past based off of skin color would never be racist in this case would it...
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Well I'm glad it was you holding them down and not me.
Of course my ancestors didn't even get to the country until 1906 as full blooded Italians, but I still get called whitey and get the full rant as if I was holding the whip on the plantation myself.
Of course judging me and my past based off of skin color would never be racist in this case would it...
Nick
Well, you make a very literal point- that you and I are not directly responsible for any part of our history. I think we all understand- that none of us ever bought or sold a slave or anything like that. But, I think it's true that the past negative actions of people of white skin color currently benefit the present condition of anyone of white skin color. You can immigrate to the United States today and benefit- even though your ancestors might have had nothing to do with it.
Whereas African-Americans born today are not slaves- are not held back by Jim Crow laws- but hundreds of years of negative measures have had a negative effect- I would say. Why should they be born into an economic situation that has got to be at least partly the result of being negatively discriminated against for so long? So to suggest we do nothing to correct those negative actions is to endorse the outcome of those hundreds of enslaved years. It's perfectly rational and good to criticize the efficacy of current affirmative action measures- but to do nothing is racist.
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
No such thing in existence as ?race?, there is such a thing as racism, alas. (anti-semitism is one form of racism, among many others).
The word ?racism? is used for reasons of convention as well as convenience, although it doesn't describe with much precision what it names, the sames goes for the word ?anti-semitism?.
Thanks for clarifying. This was basically my opinion but I've been corrected many times. Either way I think the point is moot.
Civil Rights Project Harvard University
Amazing resources on civil rights issues.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
With all due respect, I pretty much reject what you just said.
1. Your definition is too ambiguous.
2. The idea that whitey is now the grand victim in society at the expense of newly empowered minorities is not something I accept at all.
Do you by any chance own the movie, "Fight Club?"
1. I agree that my definition was too simple. It should've been more articulate.
2. I never claimed whitey was the grand victim of anything. That would be preposterous. What I was trying to state (and I thought was pretty clear) was that the past transgressions of my race has now prevented me (or anyone who generally falls under the "white" checkbox) from rallying with fellow whites without the fear of being labeled a racist or supporting a general racist campaign as people would like to suggest.
When seven white faces put together a mock-"Switch" site in support of Dean, it didn't take long for Republicans like Trumptman to throw out the race card. What did that prove? That whites aren't allowed to rally without severe consequence of being labeled racist when others can?
The core of my message is that just because whites support a candidate SHOULD NEVER be the EXCUSE to dismiss a candidate's viability no more so than should Sharpton's campaign be dismissed because he's a civil-rights zealot. While my comparisons have centered around the Howard Dean issue, it is also a good metaphore for white men and women in this country as a whole.
Oh, and I do own "Fight Club". What that was supposed to imply...I'm not sure. I happen to be a filmmaker and a big fan of David Fincher. If you're ever-so-cleverly trying to imply that I feel like a disenfranchised white man - try again. I won't, however, be made to feel BAD because I happen to be excited about a presidential candidate simply because he was governor of a predominantly white state.
Spin away.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Well, you make a very literal point- that you and I are not directly responsible for any part of our history. I think we all understand- that none of us ever bought or sold a slave or anything like that. But, I think it's true that the past negative actions of people of white skin color currently benefit the present condition of anyone of white skin color. You can immigrate to the United States today and benefit- even though your ancestors might have had nothing to do with it.
Whereas African-Americans born today are not slaves- are not held back by Jim Crow laws- but hundreds of years of negative measures have had a negative effect- I would say. Why should they be born into an economic situation that has got to be at least partly the result of being negatively discriminated against for so long? So to suggest we do nothing to correct those negative actions is to endorse the outcome of those hundreds of enslaved years. It's perfectly rational and good to criticize the efficacy of current affirmative action measures- but to do nothing is racist.
Many of them are born into a situation that has nothing to do with slavery and does profoundly change their economic situation. It is called illegitimacy. Considering that white illegitimacy is at a rate comparable to what black was 30 years ago, we may soon see the same results for white and then we will all see that this issue has nothing to do with race.
Black illegitimacy is currently at about 70%. The fact that one parent cannot work as hard as two has nothing to do with race.
Likewise to suggest that recent white immigrants benefit is bunk. I have no doubt that if a white immigrant had no advanced education or job skills and a black immigrant did that they black immigrant would get a better job and earn more. People benefit or suffer based off of their starting point regardless of race. Italians didn't typically come with a ton of education and often had a clannishness/family closeness that they valued more than say schooling. If they didn't overcome those variables, they suffered economically.
You claim lack of support for affirmative action is racist, yet you won't let your conclusions apply themselves. Why would a rich black child need affirmative action if nothing in their financial background suggests a deficit that must be overcome?
If, as you claim, blacks are disportionately poor, then by simply deciding to admit a certain number of students based off of financial hardship they would disportionately benefit. Race wouldn't need to be involved.
However that isn't what affirmative action is truly about and that is why it is often characterized, correctly as a quota system. Quotas harm people today, who as you mentioned never had a direct hand in the past and we also cannot be assured have been harmed or helped by that past. AA based purely off of financial need instead of race would work if what you claim about finances and race is true.
Nick
Is that racist or just an ethnic slur?
Davis slams Arnold
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Many of them are born into a situation that has nothing to do with slavery and does profoundly change their economic situation. It is called illegitimacy.
Marriage is irrelevant.
Why?
1. Because I'm from the South.
When I moved to Boston 8 years ago I attended Suffolk University (for 2 weeks). In one of my classes (some history class) the teacher picked me out of the crowd (after hearing my Southern accent) and asked me to come up in front of the class and explain the South's continued racism and how we "hold down" the "African-American" population.
So, I proceded to talk about the racism that is rampant in Boston. The South Boston busing riots, the racism that the Irish Catholics were subjected to, etc... These are some issues that Bostonians try to ignore and don't like brought up. I also told them that my family was decended from share cropers in South Arkansas and that we never owned a slave.
Needless to say, I made a few enemies that day. I finally dropped out (got a full refund too after talking with University management about my "issues") due to continued harassment by students and one teacher.
Thanks God that I finally moved back to the South (after 8 years in Boston). I saw more racism in Boston in my 8 years there than I did in 25 years in the South.
2. Because I don't believe in affirmative action
I applied for slot (in a Southern Universities) Respiratory Therapy program. I was admitted as an alternate. This didn't bother me too much until I found out that 3 (of ~20) slots were reserved for minorities. I also found out that the rules for admission were very different for a white person vs a black person.
The program had to admit 3 "minorities" regardless of GPA or perceived ability. I got pretty mad about that and was fairly vocal about it.
I finally got in the program. 2 of the "minorities" were thrown out of the program due to failing grades. The other was "passed" so that the program could graduate one "minority"
edit:
The minority that was passed received D's and F's on his tests and competencies. He also was unable to operate life support equipment (ventilators), in what many students and teachers thought of, in a safe and competent manner.
end edit
3. Because I don't believe in affirmative action part II
Ever tried firing a black person in the South? They instantly scream that they will get Jesse Jackson and the NAACP in on this and that they will file discrimination charges against the company. I know that this sounds like I am saying all blacks do this. I know that not all blacks do this, it is more than likely a small percentage of blacks. But, I am going by what I have seen and experienced first hand.
I was laid off from a job because of the above threatss being made by 2 black employees. Both of these employees were "slackers". They were being laid off for a reason, but since they brought up the discrimination word and the NAACP, management backed down. Instead 2 whites were laid off. Management was very honest with me to tell me why I was being laid off and that their hands were tied.
I was rehired 1 month later. By then, one of the blacks had been fired for stealing merchandise. The other was fired a few months later for excessive absences. I was told by management (but do not know for certain) that both filed discrimination suits against the company and both had the NAACP get involved.
Sometimes it feels like being a white person is a crime in America. And no, I don't long for the days of slavery or for the early 1900's where "blacks knew their places". I don't agree with any of that stupidity.
I studied German in High School and College. Because of that, some of the Jewish people that I worked with in Boston became uncomfortable around me; all because I had studied the German language and I loved the Germanic people. My stepfather was Dutch and I had visited Holland and Germany a few times and found the people to be very warm and friendly.
So, for this some of the Jewish people that I got to know "wondered" if I had Nazi sympathies despite the fact that I worked at a Jewish hospital, took the time to learn about the Jewish faith and was very open in my support of Israel.
So, I understand where you are coming from.
Sorry for the rambling post.
ism: a suffix denoting a dogma or theory.
race + ism: 1)a dogma or theory regearding race.
2)a dogma or theory regearding a subgroup of humans that share a general set of physical characteristics normally passed through generations in a generally repeatable fashion.
ist: a suffix denoting the adherence to a specific dogma or theory or code of behavior.
race + ist:
1) a person who adhere's to a specific dogma or theory regearding race.
2) a person who adhere's to a specific dogma or theory regearding a subgroup of humans that share a general set of physical characteristics normally passed through generations in a generally repeatable fashion.
Therefore any thought, positive or negative about a subgroup of humans that share a general set of physical characteristics normally passed through generations in a generally repeatable fashion, is a racist thought.
Originally posted by bunge
Marriage is irrelevant.
For how we treat each other as members of society, yes. However as a generator of wealth, no.
Marriage generates more wealth than being single when considered in the context of our society as a whole.
Nick
Several people who are very close to me, also worked in corporate situations where employees of African descent basically slacked off on a regular basis. Missing work, showing up late for meetings, spending hours a day talking to friends on the phone or surfing the internet, even one who was outwardly, verbally abusive to other workers on multiple occasions.
In the end, when their departments had to downsize over the last year or so, non of these people were let go and only one reprimanded for their unprofessional behavior. The abusive person (who would've been canned on the spot if he were white) got a lecture from HR. Oooo.
Meanwhile, several people of non-African descent who were known for their good work ethic, were let go. [Ironically, almost all were female - so we have a sexist solution to a behavior problem, tied not to sex in these particular cases, but to race.] Upper management also mentioned to these women that "there are others who deserve to be let go today, but who we are instructed to keep."
Sad fact: many African Americans know they're being hired because of AA, and so abuse the good fortune they've been given by not working hard. They take advantage of the fact that they'd have to do something completely egregious in order to get fired.
Happens all the time, all over the country. And to be fair, it happens all the time with white workers who got their jobs via the wondrous world of nepotism. Either way it sucks; companies need to take stock of their actions and realize that the only thing worth rewarding is performance and leadership (inside the company and out).
Maybe one day corporations will get some balls and hire / fire people based on performance. What a novel concept. Quotas are a friggin joke. A really sad joke and a commentary on our times: image counts more than substance, even in the workplace. Pathetic.
[Edited for clarification....]
Originally posted by podmate
2. Because I don't believe in affirmative action
I applied for slot (in a Southern Universities) Respiratory Therapy program. I was admitted as an alternate. This didn't bother me too much until I found out that 3 (of ~20) slots were reserved for minorities. I also found out that the rules for admission were very different for a white person vs a black person.
The program had to admit 3 "minorities" regardless of GPA or perceived ability. I got pretty mad about that and was fairly vocal about it.
I finally got in the program. 2 of the "minorities" were thrown out of the program due to failing grades. The other was "passed" so that the program could graduate one "minority"
edit:
The minority that was passed received D's and F's on his tests and competencies. He also was unable to operate life support equipment (ventilators), in what many students and teachers thought of, in a safe and competent manner.
end edit
That is not affirmative action!
That is an illegal quota system! I would sue their asses off.