It is time for some real audio capabilities...

tkntkn
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I think that lack of good audio is definitely holding back the Macintosh digital hub concept. Where is Dolby Digital ES/THX/DTS sound coming through a nice beautiful coaxial audio out? Yeah you can buy a M-audio Sonica but frankly you shouldn't have to.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 35
    frostymmbfrostymmb Posts: 131member
    I think that it would unecessarily raise the cost, and not everyone wants it. That's why you buy a card for your audio needs. Like SCSI, not everyone needs it so it's not included by default, along with the countless other things that are specific to what certain users want/need.
  • Reply 2 of 35
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    [quote]Originally posted by FrostyMMB:

    <strong>I think that it would unecessarily raise the cost, and not everyone wants it. That's why you buy a card for your audio needs. Like SCSI, not everyone needs it so it's not included by default, along with the countless other things that are specific to what certain users want/need.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Ok so let me get this straight.



    Mac users don't need "modern" Audio features because it may raise the cost.



    Newsflash- Your garden variety sub $1000 system has 5.1 and even 6.1 Audio right on the Muthaboard.



    You gotta wonder how Apple can call a Powermac a "Pro" machine and it can't even output Multichannel Audio or link up digitally. Geez you're going to be quite miffed to find out your "Power"mac has less features than your Grannies new Dell computer.



    We're talking Pennies here. The Chrome Logo on some Apple products cost more in most likelyhood.



    Being the fact that Apple doesn't support 21st Century Audio it makes it even harder for Developers like Midiman to create workable products because Apple has sluffed off so much.



    Apple is it too much to ask for a Coax Digital connecter or a Toslink so that we can run this into a receiver?



    I'm afraid some people aren't buying cards...they're buying PC's which have the items standard and they're saving a bundle.
  • Reply 3 of 35
    drboardrboar Posts: 477member
    I totaly agree with the need for multi channel support both in OS and hardware. Back in the Quadra days the Mac had better sound support than some but not all PCs. That was two channel 44k sound and that is were the mac has remained for a decade while the PC has progressed a lot.



    I ams sure even Dells PC for 399 dollars has some soundblaster compatible stuff on the motherboard. The mac has allways been and still is a premium computer so shure they should have it.



    Apple came with DVD playing ability for their computer four years ago but still limited to two chanel sound <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />



    If they have to cut corners they can cut out that gigabit ethernet chip that that probably cost as much as the SB chip! Do I need to make a poll on how many users that have their Mac connected to a GB ethernet??



    The only disadvantage with surround sound is that if I play Aliens vs Predators 2 with that I will net to buy a stack of Depends as I will whet myself
  • Reply 4 of 35
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by FrostyMMB:

    <strong>I think that it would unecessarily raise the cost, and not everyone wants it. That's why you buy a card for your audio needs. Like SCSI, not everyone needs it so it's not included by default, along with the countless other things that are specific to what certain users want/need.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    when paying hundreds of dollars more for a "comparable" system it should be expected to get similar or IMO superior audio capabilities. Instead we get shafted with crap
  • Reply 5 of 35
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    [quote]Originally posted by TKN:

    <strong>I think that lack of good audio is definitely holding back the Macintosh digital hub concept. Where is Dolby Digital ES/THX/DTS sound coming through a nice beautiful coaxial audio out? Yeah you can buy a M-audio Sonica but frankly you shouldn't have to.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    This is a typical software house development catch 22 ...



    Does Apple code up some temporary 5.1 hack, give developers some sort of half finished API, and then, struggle like mad to impliment this for real in CORE Audio? ...



    ... only to find what they really wanted to do can't be done since they previously defined a bogus and now conflicting standard in the previous hack's API ... and now, since they've released the hack, and other developers have written to it, they must continue supporting the hack AND try to make their real plans for world domination compatible with some semi-bogus stop-gap code they threw out the door a year ago.



    Astute minds will recognize this as the "Embrace and Extend" philosophy of Microsoft, only there, it's used to screw cool emerging technologies out of their rightful place in the sun, by replacing their thunder with hacked together check box features that don't really work ...



    The purpose of which is to get the stuff out the door with enough lead time to establish the hack as a "standard" ... and given the marketing dollars, it worked, but it has turned Microsoft into, well, Microsoft ...



    My bet, is that Apple is well aware of this short coming (especially considering they're the one's who are real big on movie making and DVD watching) ... and that they're working like mad to avoid putting a temporary hack out the door, and instead, are trying to get CORE Audio to be the monster killer it probably will be.



    But it can't be easy taking all their OS9 apps, scraping off the barnicles (I can't imagine what the QuickTime Group must be going thru, trying to migrate THAT decade-plus API thru the eye of the CORE Audio needle) ...



    ... but considering what Apple's surely got planned vis a vis the PowerPC 970 and EMagic/Quicktime FCP combo ... I'm sure when CORE Audio is ready to sport, it will be some rock solid (ahem) professional engine that will be the envy of the industry.



    God, just think, a box that has fully compatable audio standards across all professional Audio and Video applications ... no assembly required.



    yeah, sporting ...
  • Reply 6 of 35
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    Ok now that i'm no longer breathing fire about Apple and Audio. I will say Overtoasty is right.



    Core Audio finally give the Mac the ability to have a standardized API for multichannel surround. But we as consumers need to let Apple know that we want a way to be able to take advantage of this without shelling out more money or introducing 3rd party drivers to our systems. Hopefully we see some decent HW Audio I/O on the next Powermacs.
  • Reply 7 of 35
    hamfistedbunvendorhamfistedbunvendor Posts: 52member
    Does anyone know how to turn the volume down in all apps so that it is best described as quiet? Between the last sound bar and mute it is very loud.
  • Reply 8 of 35
    maclogicmaclogic Posts: 35member
    I wonder, why bother with 5.1 onboard audio on the MDD powermac? Aren't they LOUD enough <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 9 of 35
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Apple has probably been waiting for two things: OS 9 has to die, or they end up adding a completely different subsystem to an OS that could barely support it, and for Core Audio to get finished and robust.



    I wouldn't be surprised if they're also hoping for ways to interface 5.1 and 7.1 audio in a way that doesn't require 6 or 8 plugs.



    Given all that, and the time to either build or integrate hardware audio that's worth CoreAudio (i.e., not Soundblaster), I'd give them a little time to come out with a next-generation audio system. However, when they do, look out.
  • Reply 10 of 35
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Oh, everyone wants surround sound. This would be the perfect thing for a cube-redux. Something to serve as both a computer and home A/V server.
  • Reply 11 of 35
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Surround sound on the 970 'POWER'Mac? Yes please! Better mono-sound that I had in my tinneee Powermac clone...



    Play all my favourite anthem rock tracks...hear the 'tinkles' from the Matrix 'lock an' load'...



    Gurgle.







    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 12 of 35
    keilwerthrebornkeilwerthreborn Posts: 129member
    Yeah, this is something they should have by now, but Apple has been working with core audio alot, and the situation has improved dramatically since 10.0. That said, it would be nice to have at least DPL II, if not real DSS 6.1.
  • Reply 13 of 35
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,458member
    On the hardware side of things I think a better answer is to be found in FireWire. Trying to put audio circuitry into the computer's case tends to introduce too much electronic noise, ground loops, and other weird & wild problems. Better would be to have a small external box (or a full-blown digital receiver) that plugs into the FireWire bus and is sent the audio in digital form.
  • Reply 14 of 35
    razzfazzrazzfazz Posts: 728member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>

    Being the fact that Apple doesn't support 21st Century Audio it makes it even harder for Developers like Midiman to create workable products because Apple has sluffed off so much.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Uh, you're seriously suggesting that digital out via TosLink is "21st century audio", whereas native support for multi-channel 96kHz floating point audio or mLAN devices is not?



    Bye,

    RazzFazz
  • Reply 15 of 35
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    Razzfazz...hell I'm begging Apple just to put out at a minimum a Toslink or Coax Digi I/O. I mean when a $50 DVD can offer both you gotta wonder what's going on with Apple.



    Emacs and iMacs cannot be upgraded to multichannel surround using a PCI card. Neither can the portables so Apple has to do something here.



    I'd love mLAN or something firewire based but that won't link into a low cost DD/DTS capable receiver like Coax or Toslink will.
  • Reply 16 of 35
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    [quote]Originally posted by Programmer:

    <strong>On the hardware side of things I think a better answer is to be found in FireWire. Trying to put audio circuitry into the computer's case tends to introduce too much electronic noise, ground loops, and other weird & wild problems. Better would be to have a small external box (or a full-blown digital receiver) that plugs into the FireWire bus and is sent the audio in digital form.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yeah, inside a computer box is no place for analog audio ... the noise is terrible, the ground loops are hell, computers were simply never built with that in mind.



    So it's nice to know they could squeeze all the 96k 24bit multi-channel goodness anyone could eat, down 1394a as it stands right now ...



    However, the problem is standards, not just for pro-gear, but for home 5.1 theatre as well ... the other problem is, it's a bit of a shame to limit any standard to just audio & MIDI stuff, when there's so much other stuff going on.



    I do remember hearing someplace something about a proper digital standard for home 5.1 that may have involved Firewire ... yes, that would be sexy ...



    What would be sexier still would be a fully flexible standard that encompasses the whole media barbecue in a one stop solution:



    1 - HDTV

    2 - SDTV

    3 - Still Images

    4 - AUDIO

    5 - MIDI

    6 - Data Packets (so you can send info about stuff, not just stuff).





    Plug two things together, they negotiate and say what they're all about, what they recognize, what they ignore etc ... and you're done.



    I think FireWire 1394b is the only pipe that can actually handle all the above formats ...



    Geez, FireWire 800, the universal standard that solves all our problems?



    Now how much would you pay?

    &lt;/dreaming&gt;



    [ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: OverToasty ]</p>
  • Reply 17 of 35
    tkntkn Posts: 224member
    [quote]Originally posted by OverToasty:

    <strong>

    Yeah, inside a computer box is no place for analog audio ... the noise is terrible, the ground loops are hell, computers were simply never built with that in mind.

    ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That is why all I want is a coax digital out without any analog processing. Firewire media out aside, I don't exactly have a Firewire jack on my receiver.
  • Reply 18 of 35
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    [quote]Originally posted by TKN:

    <strong>



    That is why all I want is a coax digital out without any analog processing. Firewire media out aside, I don't exactly have a Firewire jack on my receiver.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ... give it a couple of years.
  • Reply 19 of 35
    razzfazzrazzfazz Posts: 728member
    Oh, and since we're talking about consumer grade audio stuff - whatever happened to Creative Labs and Mac support? Have they just given up on writing any form of IOKit driver?



    Bye,

    RazzFazz



    [ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: RazzFazz ]</p>
  • Reply 20 of 35
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    It doesn't even have to be TosLink or Coax...S/PDIF connectors can be as simple as two wires...so I think Apple's Pro Speaker jack might actually be capable of the task...



    24-bit/192KHz would be nice...



    According to places like the Ars A/V forums, the M-Audio Revolution beats the pants off the Audigy 2, so us PCI enabled users shouldn't be too miffed.



    [ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
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