Er, didn't the price of a Power Mac tower go up to $1999 upon the intro of the G5? And we all know that portables are more expensive than desktops, so if the cheapest laptop is currently $1599, taking into account all the engineering and all involved in the G5 (again, just using the towers as a reference), wouldn't you imagine the PowerBooks skootching up a bit when they're announced?
Do you not remember the whining by some at the notion of the cheapest G5 being $1999. I do.
It was discussed a lot that prices had risen but in the end only the 1.6 was overpriced, the 1.8 and 2x2.0 were far better value than the G4s and were even better here in the UK.
I don't think Powerbook G5 will be much more if any, it won't be using SATA or need the complex chasis, so in 6+ months costs should be even less.
not necessarily... the current crop 7447's fits fine in a next gen G4 ibook: portable superdrives to the masses
Kill It! Just put in the SuperDrive! A Complany did it once; Apple can do it too. Excuse the capatilization. Sorry, it feels like I'm fighting an uphill battle in my support of the G3.
we did already assume we don't have to wait another year for the G5 powerbook.
the current pb G4 mobo can nicely been dropped in a next gen G4 ibook.
it's also possible that the next gen (G4) ibook is introduced before the G5 powerbook. they did such a move before. we'll see
Anyone remember the iMac? Back when it shipped, the proc. was still less then a year old! And it was still being used in the highest-end PM's! And they didn't even have NewWorld ROMs, so the 233Mhz PowerMac is slower than the 233Mhz iMacs! And it was a year before G4's came in and another year before they became much faster! And the PB didn't have a G4 until 2001. For 4 months the iBook had 366 and 466Mhz processors vs. 400 and 500Mhz ones. In those dark days, the main advantage of the PowerBook was the bigger screen. Also, the high-end iBook ($1,799) was only about 40Mhz faster then the low-end PB ($2,499.) They even had the same HD sizes. Further confusion:
* The iMac started to ship in America on August '98. On September '98, Apple released the Wallstreet Rev. 2. Wallstreet Rev. 2 cannot use Mac OS X v10.3 (and be supported anyway,) but the iMac, a consumer machine introduced a month earlier, can. Furthermore, the iMac is about the same speed or faster then an low-end Wallstreet Rev. 2. Wallstreet Rev. 2 owners, I feel sorry for you. For a few months, the iMac even went up to 266Mhz!
For 4 months the iBook had 366 and 466Mhz processors vs. 400 and 500Mhz ones. In those dark days, the main advantage of the PowerBook was the bigger screen.
The powerbook current at that time had a faster bus (100 MHz vs the iBook's 66 MHz) which made a big difference in performance.
I honestly don't think the pricing on the g5 powerbook will be much different than current pricing. As it stands apple is on top of the price class of laptops, and Apple prices across all lines have steadily coming in a little closer to fairly comparable PC (ie sony and alienware). HP just released their own 17" widescreen notebook, to compete with the Toshiba. It is prices at 1799. (the comparable toshiba is apx 1849). It would be very difficult for apple to sell the laptop at $1000 more when the prices on the major components are coming down, and I imagine the increased chip volume at ibm will allow for a decreased price. I imagine the ibooks will move further down market since "entry level pc laptops have moved into the $699-799 range, Combo drive ibooks with 12 screens should run $999, and 15 in widescreens (getting to be common in the pc world, emachine even has one) should run about $1299-1399 for a combo drive, and $1599 for a superdrive.
More importantly the g4 chips at current clockspeeds should be phased out. Where i think the ibooks can be most competitive in the market is positioning against the centrino laptops, and pricing and battery life should be similar. (THe clock speeds will match up pefectly with the newer ibm g3 chips, and hopefully battery life will be comparable)
This will leave the powerbooks to occupy the top end, and increase apple's volume and marketshare in the laptop market. My estimated pricing maybe about $1799-2999, with superdrives as the only optical option (it is time to drop the combo in the pro line, if the ibook keeps the combo and gets a bigger widescreen option.
Sonys new z1 vaio would compete well with the powerbooks:$2399
These already offer 1mb of level 2 cache and 400 front side bus. 14.1 in screen and it weighs 4.7 lbs. battery life is rated at 5.5-13 hours. I do think the price is a bit expensive, but the screen size and battery life is great.
It would be great if Apple could get powerbooks with a 2mb cache and 800 bus, similar size, battery life, and price points of existing powerbooks. The current powerbooks exceed most things already, but it is lacking a bit in speed and battery life. The same chip speed and increased system bus would help a lot. And I think many consumers think the 12" screen is way too small. If the 12" powerbook turned into a 13 or 14" display, it might help a lot and it wouldn't take much changing of the current design to get to the 13" at least. Customers looking for a widescreen tend to value the widescreen over a more square screen, but in the "ultra-compact" category, a large screen in small package is important and it wouldn't cannibalize 15" sales any more than the current 12" does.
Pro machines offer faster 64 bit processors, better video, faster hardrives, all models bult in wireless and dual spanning, dvi ports and gigabit ethernet, no difference in the low end. Extremely lightweight and more ports. All powerbooks will also have rca inputs and audio in. Hard drives are getting smaller, it just might work.
I find it hard to believe that Apple would go up in price with a G5 Powerbook. Much like when they upgraded the iPods, the features (in that case the hardrive) would get better, but the price didn't move.
I also don't think Apple can or will wait for another 14 months before releasing the G5 Powerbook. When did IBM say they will be producing the die-shrunk, low power G5s? I thought it was by early 2003... why wait?
Remember Apple doesn't comment on future products... I think this was a comment to get people who might be waiting on the G5 to buy the new G4 Powerbooks. Steve is smart, you don't think he thought we would ignore that statement do you?
Comments
Originally posted by pscates
Er, didn't the price of a Power Mac tower go up to $1999 upon the intro of the G5? And we all know that portables are more expensive than desktops, so if the cheapest laptop is currently $1599, taking into account all the engineering and all involved in the G5 (again, just using the towers as a reference), wouldn't you imagine the PowerBooks skootching up a bit when they're announced?
Do you not remember the whining by some at the notion of the cheapest G5 being $1999. I do.
It was discussed a lot that prices had risen but in the end only the 1.6 was overpriced, the 1.8 and 2x2.0 were far better value than the G4s and were even better here in the UK.
I don't think Powerbook G5 will be much more if any, it won't be using SATA or need the complex chasis, so in 6+ months costs should be even less.
Originally posted by gar
not necessarily... the current crop 7447's fits fine in a next gen G4 ibook: portable superdrives to the masses
Kill It! Just put in the SuperDrive! A Complany did it once; Apple can do it too. Excuse the capatilization. Sorry, it feels like I'm fighting an uphill battle in my support of the G3.
Originally posted by gar
of course.
we did already assume we don't have to wait another year for the G5 powerbook.
the current pb G4 mobo can nicely been dropped in a next gen G4 ibook.
it's also possible that the next gen (G4) ibook is introduced before the G5 powerbook. they did such a move before. we'll see
Anyone remember the iMac? Back when it shipped, the proc. was still less then a year old! And it was still being used in the highest-end PM's! And they didn't even have NewWorld ROMs, so the 233Mhz PowerMac is slower than the 233Mhz iMacs! And it was a year before G4's came in and another year before they became much faster! And the PB didn't have a G4 until 2001. For 4 months the iBook had 366 and 466Mhz processors vs. 400 and 500Mhz ones. In those dark days, the main advantage of the PowerBook was the bigger screen. Also, the high-end iBook ($1,799) was only about 40Mhz faster then the low-end PB ($2,499.) They even had the same HD sizes. Further confusion:
* The iMac started to ship in America on August '98. On September '98, Apple released the Wallstreet Rev. 2. Wallstreet Rev. 2 cannot use Mac OS X v10.3 (and be supported anyway,) but the iMac, a consumer machine introduced a month earlier, can. Furthermore, the iMac is about the same speed or faster then an low-end Wallstreet Rev. 2. Wallstreet Rev. 2 owners, I feel sorry for you. For a few months, the iMac even went up to 266Mhz!
Originally posted by ryaxnb
For 4 months the iBook had 366 and 466Mhz processors vs. 400 and 500Mhz ones. In those dark days, the main advantage of the PowerBook was the bigger screen.
The powerbook current at that time had a faster bus (100 MHz vs the iBook's 66 MHz) which made a big difference in performance.
-- Mark
More importantly the g4 chips at current clockspeeds should be phased out. Where i think the ibooks can be most competitive in the market is positioning against the centrino laptops, and pricing and battery life should be similar. (THe clock speeds will match up pefectly with the newer ibm g3 chips, and hopefully battery life will be comparable)
This will leave the powerbooks to occupy the top end, and increase apple's volume and marketshare in the laptop market. My estimated pricing maybe about $1799-2999, with superdrives as the only optical option (it is time to drop the combo in the pro line, if the ibook keeps the combo and gets a bigger widescreen option.
Sonys new z1 vaio would compete well with the powerbooks:$2399
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ebookComputers
These already offer 1mb of level 2 cache and 400 front side bus. 14.1 in screen and it weighs 4.7 lbs. battery life is rated at 5.5-13 hours. I do think the price is a bit expensive, but the screen size and battery life is great.
It would be great if Apple could get powerbooks with a 2mb cache and 800 bus, similar size, battery life, and price points of existing powerbooks. The current powerbooks exceed most things already, but it is lacking a bit in speed and battery life. The same chip speed and increased system bus would help a lot. And I think many consumers think the 12" screen is way too small. If the 12" powerbook turned into a 13 or 14" display, it might help a lot and it wouldn't take much changing of the current design to get to the 13" at least. Customers looking for a widescreen tend to value the widescreen over a more square screen, but in the "ultra-compact" category, a large screen in small package is important and it wouldn't cannibalize 15" sales any more than the current 12" does.
Centrino killer notebook lines
my dream lineup
ibooks
13" $999
1.4 g4*/256 1 dimm/40gb 4200/combo/32 video/4.9 lbs/
15" widescreen $1349
1.4 g4/256 1 dimm/ 40 gb 4200/combo/ 32 video/ s video/ 6.1 lbs/
15" widescreen $1649
1.6 g4/512 2 dimm/60 gb 4200/ superdrive/ 32 video/ airport/ s video/6.1 lbs
battery life 5-6 hours in all models
400 mhz bus
512k cache
no firewire 800
*or altivec g3
Powerbooks*
13" $1899
1.6 g5/512/60gb 5400/64 mb video/airport/4.5 lbs/1.1" thick
15 $2299
1.8 g5/512/60gb 5400/64 video/airport/ 5.2lbs/1" thick
15" $2599
2.0 g5/512 1 dimm/80gb 7200/128 video/airport/ 5.2lbs/ 1" thick
17" $2999
2.0 g5/1g 2 dimm/80gb 7200/128 video/airport/6.5 lbs/1" thick
all 4x superdrive
1.5mb L2 cache
800 bus
lighted keyboard on top 15, 17
5-6 hour battery
Pro machines offer faster 64 bit processors, better video, faster hardrives, all models bult in wireless and dual spanning, dvi ports and gigabit ethernet, no difference in the low end. Extremely lightweight and more ports. All powerbooks will also have rca inputs and audio in. Hard drives are getting smaller, it just might work.
I also don't think Apple can or will wait for another 14 months before releasing the G5 Powerbook. When did IBM say they will be producing the die-shrunk, low power G5s? I thought it was by early 2003... why wait?
Remember Apple doesn't comment on future products... I think this was a comment to get people who might be waiting on the G5 to buy the new G4 Powerbooks. Steve is smart, you don't think he thought we would ignore that statement do you?
Originally posted by mark_wilkins
The powerbook current at that time had a faster bus (100 MHz vs the iBook's 66 MHz) which made a big difference in performance.
-- Mark
Oh. I didn't look at that in Mactracker.