I don't think so. It does not make sense for AMD to make a whole product line of PPC just for Apple. Motorola and IBM have other customers for their chips. Apple is too small for that.
<strong>I don't think so. It does not make sense for AMD to make a whole product line of PPC just for Apple. Motorola and IBM have other customers for their chips. Apple is too small for that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It doesnt say anything about AMD making a product line...
Maybe its just something about AMD assisting IBM producing enough G5's for Apple, so that the whole product line (Apple) can go PPC 970.
Apple gets processors enough, IBM gets shitloads of money and AMD get technology. And everyone is happy.
"Planned the MPC7500 is for approximately 2002, with a start clock by 2GHz, manufactured in the 0,10-µm-copperprocess, and possibly in Dresden. Here the information compresses itself that Motorola wants to
Well, Moki has hinted that AMD may be a surprise/powerful allie in the fight against...well...the 'dark side'
So, rather than 'dual boot' systems as I summised...perhaps AMD is just one of a few companies Apple have farmed out PPC production to.
The Moto' contract was up and over months ago (by all accounts...) so. What do you do?
Take bids on motherboard production.
Take bids on CPU production?
AMD can sure make chips cheap as 'chips'
Maybe AMD are just helping with yields?
Maybe Apple are planning a double whammy of chips. Maybe even a tripple whammy?
G3+simd.
G5 from Moto'.
970 from IBM.
Let's face it. That would cover a revolution in terms of Apple's line-up from Uberworkstation to 'POWER'Macs to Consumer iMacs and laptops.
In short, if I'm honest, Apple's products need a revolution in terms of CPUs across the board. The G3 and G4 are tired and well ooooooooooooooolduh. Time to collect their pension books. I'd like Apple to really shake things up. After all, what the hell has been going on for the last four years?! Not alot? Maybe IBM, Apple, AMD and Moto' found some common ground and each may work to their respective strengths over the next year.
We'll see. But I'd like to see Apple storm the gates. Hell, they've got 4 billion in the bank. Time to start taking some prisoners.
Thinksecret are talking about iWorks (replacing Appleworks 7...). Looks like Apple are squaring up to M$. 'Bout time. If Apple are going to do a 2004 Superbowl ad' as rumoured...then Apple had sure better MAKE SURE that all the planets are in alignment... That includes OS, Software and hardware(and hardware? I'm talking cpu/motherboard specs on steroids...)
Maybe Moto' can design a G5 but can't make it in their dirty fabs. AMD could well make it for Apple. AMD and Moto' have worked closely in the past. Moki expressed remote possibility of a G5 coming from Moto' anytime soon. But the Microprocessor report editor seemed to think not only was Apple going 970...but that a Moto G5 part was STILL on track for late 2003.
Make of that what you will.
Maybe apple plans aggressive price and expansion over the next year. They're going to need some help if they're going to make enough cpus and get the price down. Because growth aint going to come from Apple's premium pricing policy of the past. Or from lagging mhz on their 'sales engine'. Both strategies have got them to 3-5% worldwide. They have to compete with x86 land for buyers. Reality. And now that Apple have finally woken up to this...we'll get to see Apple kick some ass. 'Bout time.
All the signs point to Apple really wanting to get their next gen' chip just right. If they have to sweeten AMD with a multimillion bung then I'm sure AMD (who can't buy a profit...) would take a medium term contract to help stem the red ticker tape.
And for Apple to do that...they need chip partners with a proven track record of delivery. IBM and AMD sound okay to me. Apple maybe cut a strategic deal... There's got to be a reason why Apple execs hang with AMD earlier this year. Reports of AMD/Apple 'secret' meetings? Smoke without fire? I'm sure AMD could do with the revenue in their fight with Intel. I'm sure making a G5 for Moto wouldn't take up the whole of Dresden. Apple need those 'G5/970' yields. By hook or crook. They can't afford to keep letting 'power'Mac sales dwindle like they have quarter upon quarter. They need a compelling CPU to stop the bleeding. Ironic that they 'might' go to AMD.
Maybe it's all about 'options'. Steve Jobs was very cryptic about that.
Until somebody can categorically state otherwise. I'm open minded.
I posted this question in different thread yesterday, but I'll post it here as well...
[quote]
What part of Motorola's chip technology did Apple have the 'rights' to buy out again? And how much was that possibly worth?
I'm asking because of the speculation LoopRumors has today of AMD possibly producing PPC chips. Could Apple have bought the PPC rights (or whatever portion they're entitled to) from Moto and now talking to AMD about production?
Just throwing that out to see if it might make sense to anyone.<hr></blockquote>
I'm not saying I believe any of this (or that I don't ), but remember a few of the known facts:
- IBM and AMD recently announced a technology sharing arrangement.
- IBM is planning to produce the 970 in only one fab. This kind of single-source production is risky and corporations (like Apple and IBM itself) will usually try to secure a second source. Apple likes to have options, remember.
- AMD's market is currently limited by their competition with Intel. Considering the aggressive pricing of x86 chips it would be hard for AMD to justify investment in expanding their production capacity on the chance that they can increase their x86 and x86-64 sales. Having a completely seperate product to keep a fab busy would give them that justification more flexibility in their production volumes.
- It would allow AMD to diversify and lessen their dependence on x86, the future of which is always a little hazy and usually more under the control of Intel than AMD.
If this were to happen I would imagine it would be a simple fabrication arrangement for the 970 similar to back when IBM was producing G4s under license from Motorola. I'd be surprised to see AMD getting into the PPC design business -- that requires too much investment for minimal return. Another (very slim) possibility is that Apple has a design of their own that they'll get AMD to manufacture (possibly the infamous G5 designed with Motorola but which Moto bailed on).
<strong>Another (very slim) possibility is that Apple has a design of their own that they'll get AMD to manufacture (possibly the infamous G5 designed with Motorola but which Moto bailed on).</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's where my question was leading. Any guesses on how much would Apple have to spend to buy these rights from Moto? $400 Million?
That's where my question was leading. Any guesses on how much would Apple have to spend to buy these rights from Moto? $400 Million?
Slim possibility, yes...but it's an option.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Depending on the contract, perhaps nothing. If Moto bailed on a contract the design rights could simply fall to Apple as compensation. Without a contract to look at, however, this is all fanciful guesswork. Personally I doubt the G5 design exists, and its probably not as impressive as the 970 if it does.
You must be new to macs. Its just th truth that I tell. You need to look on the internet once in a while. I am a mac veteran, and you, Lemon Bon Bon, Fran 441, and os10geek is idiots.
<strong>You must be new to macs. Its just th truth that I tell. You need to look on the internet once in a while. I am a mac veteran, and you, Lemon Bon Bon, Fran 441, and os10geek is idiots.</strong><hr></blockquote>
...someone posted a rumor on another site, I don't remember which, that Sony and Apple had a distribution deal for OS X based machines to be sold with AMD chips in them.
Is it possible that these are X86-64 chips or is it possible that they are simply AMD produced 970/G5 chips? I would think it makes more sense for the chips to be simply AMD produced nextGen PPCs than Apple fully porting OS X and all its apps to X86-64.
But, and I'm really just a programming newbie, if I understand it correctly. Cocoa apps basically have a type of VM in which the apps are actually executed (sorta like Java only with a much smaller performance penalty). Is it possible that any Cocoa app can actually run on X86 under OS X with a simple "switch" thrown in gcc at compile time?
Would this be why Apple was pusing everyone to Cocoa? To open the door for cross platform use including just about any processor Apple wants to compile OS X for?
Comments
<strong> :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, it's LoopRumors
<strong>
Well, it's LoopRumors
Hey, I actually like LoopRumors!
[quote]Originally posted by synp:
<strong>I don't think so. It does not make sense for AMD to make a whole product line of PPC just for Apple. Motorola and IBM have other customers for their chips. Apple is too small for that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It doesnt say anything about AMD making a product line...
Maybe its just something about AMD assisting IBM producing enough G5's for Apple, so that the whole product line (Apple) can go PPC 970.
Apple gets processors enough, IBM gets shitloads of money and AMD get technology. And everyone is happy.
<a href="http://www.heise.de/ct/99/20/021/"; target="_blank">http://www.heise.de/ct/99/20/021/</a>;
"Planned the MPC7500 is for approximately 2002, with a start clock by 2GHz, manufactured in the 0,10-µm-copperprocess, and possibly in Dresden. Here the information compresses itself that Motorola wants to
also enter with AMD."
Ok, its from 1999
<strong>
Hey, I actually like LoopRumors!.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It can't be for their accuracy
Lemon Bon Bon
So, rather than 'dual boot' systems as I summised...perhaps AMD is just one of a few companies Apple have farmed out PPC production to.
The Moto' contract was up and over months ago (by all accounts...) so. What do you do?
Take bids on motherboard production.
Take bids on CPU production?
AMD can sure make chips cheap as 'chips'
Maybe AMD are just helping with yields?
Maybe Apple are planning a double whammy of chips. Maybe even a tripple whammy?
G3+simd.
G5 from Moto'.
970 from IBM.
Let's face it. That would cover a revolution in terms of Apple's line-up from Uberworkstation to 'POWER'Macs to Consumer iMacs and laptops.
In short, if I'm honest, Apple's products need a revolution in terms of CPUs across the board. The G3 and G4 are tired and well ooooooooooooooolduh. Time to collect their pension books. I'd like Apple to really shake things up. After all, what the hell has been going on for the last four years?! Not alot? Maybe IBM, Apple, AMD and Moto' found some common ground and each may work to their respective strengths over the next year.
We'll see. But I'd like to see Apple storm the gates. Hell, they've got 4 billion in the bank. Time to start taking some prisoners.
Thinksecret are talking about iWorks (replacing Appleworks 7...). Looks like Apple are squaring up to M$. 'Bout time. If Apple are going to do a 2004 Superbowl ad' as rumoured...then Apple had sure better MAKE SURE that all the planets are in alignment... That includes OS, Software and hardware(and hardware? I'm talking cpu/motherboard specs on steroids...)
Maybe Moto' can design a G5 but can't make it in their dirty fabs. AMD could well make it for Apple. AMD and Moto' have worked closely in the past. Moki expressed remote possibility of a G5 coming from Moto' anytime soon. But the Microprocessor report editor seemed to think not only was Apple going 970...but that a Moto G5 part was STILL on track for late 2003.
Make of that what you will.
Maybe apple plans aggressive price and expansion over the next year. They're going to need some help if they're going to make enough cpus and get the price down. Because growth aint going to come from Apple's premium pricing policy of the past. Or from lagging mhz on their 'sales engine'. Both strategies have got them to 3-5% worldwide. They have to compete with x86 land for buyers. Reality. And now that Apple have finally woken up to this...we'll get to see Apple kick some ass. 'Bout time.
All the signs point to Apple really wanting to get their next gen' chip just right. If they have to sweeten AMD with a multimillion bung then I'm sure AMD (who can't buy a profit...) would take a medium term contract to help stem the red ticker tape.
And for Apple to do that...they need chip partners with a proven track record of delivery. IBM and AMD sound okay to me. Apple maybe cut a strategic deal... There's got to be a reason why Apple execs hang with AMD earlier this year. Reports of AMD/Apple 'secret' meetings? Smoke without fire? I'm sure AMD could do with the revenue in their fight with Intel. I'm sure making a G5 for Moto wouldn't take up the whole of Dresden. Apple need those 'G5/970' yields. By hook or crook. They can't afford to keep letting 'power'Mac sales dwindle like they have quarter upon quarter. They need a compelling CPU to stop the bleeding. Ironic that they 'might' go to AMD.
Maybe it's all about 'options'. Steve Jobs was very cryptic about that.
Until somebody can categorically state otherwise. I'm open minded.
Lemon Bon Bon
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
[quote]
What part of Motorola's chip technology did Apple have the 'rights' to buy out again? And how much was that possibly worth?
I'm asking because of the speculation LoopRumors has today of AMD possibly producing PPC chips. Could Apple have bought the PPC rights (or whatever portion they're entitled to) from Moto and now talking to AMD about production?
Just throwing that out to see if it might make sense to anyone.<hr></blockquote>
- IBM and AMD recently announced a technology sharing arrangement.
- IBM is planning to produce the 970 in only one fab. This kind of single-source production is risky and corporations (like Apple and IBM itself) will usually try to secure a second source. Apple likes to have options, remember.
- AMD's market is currently limited by their competition with Intel. Considering the aggressive pricing of x86 chips it would be hard for AMD to justify investment in expanding their production capacity on the chance that they can increase their x86 and x86-64 sales. Having a completely seperate product to keep a fab busy would give them that justification more flexibility in their production volumes.
- It would allow AMD to diversify and lessen their dependence on x86, the future of which is always a little hazy and usually more under the control of Intel than AMD.
If this were to happen I would imagine it would be a simple fabrication arrangement for the 970 similar to back when IBM was producing G4s under license from Motorola. I'd be surprised to see AMD getting into the PPC design business -- that requires too much investment for minimal return. Another (very slim) possibility is that Apple has a design of their own that they'll get AMD to manufacture (possibly the infamous G5 designed with Motorola but which Moto bailed on).
<strong>Another (very slim) possibility is that Apple has a design of their own that they'll get AMD to manufacture (possibly the infamous G5 designed with Motorola but which Moto bailed on).</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's where my question was leading. Any guesses on how much would Apple have to spend to buy these rights from Moto? $400 Million?
Slim possibility, yes...but it's an option.
<strong>
That's where my question was leading. Any guesses on how much would Apple have to spend to buy these rights from Moto? $400 Million?
Slim possibility, yes...but it's an option.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Depending on the contract, perhaps nothing. If Moto bailed on a contract the design rights could simply fall to Apple as compensation. Without a contract to look at, however, this is all fanciful guesswork. Personally I doubt the G5 design exists, and its probably not as impressive as the 970 if it does.
<strong>Since intel and AMD are he same company</strong><hr></blockquote>
What planet are you on?
<strong>You must be new to macs. Its just th truth that I tell. You need to look on the internet once in a while. I am a mac veteran, and you, Lemon Bon Bon, Fran 441, and os10geek is idiots.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Remember, kids: Don't feed the trolls.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, dont feed them, our holy admins will take care of them for you
Is it possible that these are X86-64 chips or is it possible that they are simply AMD produced 970/G5 chips? I would think it makes more sense for the chips to be simply AMD produced nextGen PPCs than Apple fully porting OS X and all its apps to X86-64.
But, and I'm really just a programming newbie, if I understand it correctly. Cocoa apps basically have a type of VM in which the apps are actually executed (sorta like Java only with a much smaller performance penalty). Is it possible that any Cocoa app can actually run on X86 under OS X with a simple "switch" thrown in gcc at compile time?
Would this be why Apple was pusing everyone to Cocoa? To open the door for cross platform use including just about any processor Apple wants to compile OS X for?
Its getting rather murky.
'are'
Lemon Bon Bon