So I guess by your measure they are not very good? BTW, this isn't whining and it's not support for the RIAA. I just don't think we value musicians enough.
I think we value musicians quite a bit. I think there are too many musicians to reach the kind of exposure so many want.
Then when they don't succeed they sit back and blame their lack of rent money on a wider cultural ennui. Sorry, bub, but you're just working your ass of in a dying trade or expecting too much out of it.
Musicians have to have day jobs!? THE HORROR!!
Quote:
I mean you'll get people to gladly pay ten bucks to see a movie or for two beers at a bar, but if you want to hear whining just try and get them to pay five for a local band.
Well I think anyone will whine about spending five bucks for something they didn't ask for in the first place.
"Yay, you can play music and you think you're great. Can I go now?"
Ok, what musician do you know that made it that didn't practice at least 8 hours a day... I know lots that didn't make it that practiced far more.
Made it? Made what? Pizza?
And practice? Come to think of it, I haven't heard a musician use that word in a while. Wait, I know a professional cello player that says that. Other than they, they just play music.
I'm totally waxing philosophic, but maybe the problem is that you view it as something outside of your normal life. Most musicians I know, myself included, just sort of do it. It's part of the natural flow. Anyway, I'll stop being philosophic and say that maybe it's because you guys spent too much time practicing and not enough time doing.
Who knows though? If you mean 'made it' as in millions of dollars, maybe you didn't 'make it' because you are like 99.99999% of musicians out there. If you mean 'made it' like 'make a steady living playing music,' then it's probably because you didn't do like Tonton's friend.
I'm totally waxing philosophic, but maybe the problem is that you view it as something outside of your normal life. Most musicians I know, myself included, just sort of do it. It's part of the natural flow.
So you're a professional musician then. cool.
Quote:
Who knows though? If you mean 'made it' as in millions of dollars, maybe you didn't 'make it' because you are like 99.99999% of musicians out there. If you mean 'made it' like 'make a steady living playing music,' then it's probably because you didn't do like Tonton's friend.
Tonton's frind is in SEVEN bands AND runs a studio AND teaches four instruments. Yes, thats true. I don't think I could maintain that pace. Certainly there are easier ways to make a living. If you are forced to do something you enjoy for 18 hours per day to survive, it wont be long before you stop enjoying it. I just feel sorry for the poor neglected kids hes pretending to raise while doing all that.
No. I do have a record label, though (maybe had. it's kind of neglected). Read my post above for a little background.
Quote:
Tonton's frind is in SEVEN bands AND runs a studio AND teaches four instruments. Yes, thats true. I don't think I could maintain that pace. Certainly there are easier ways to make a living. If you are forced to do something you enjoy for 18 hours per day to survive, it wont be long before you stop enjoying it. I just feel sorry for the poor neglected kids hes pretending to raise while doing all that.
Most musicians I know (from local to internationally known ones) either have day jobs (though they often are in the music industry), work jobs like Tonton's friend or have a spouse that makes more money.
In fact, the reason I would hate to be a professional musician is that I see some fathers I know playing gigs multiple nights a week, still not making very much money. These guys tend to do it because they love it, and, as parents, rely on the income from their wives (assuming they aren't undercover spies opr anything )
I just figured out what the problem is... To be a "cool" musician you have to pretend like you don't care about what your doing. Outsiders translate to meaning lazy or easy or whatever they think it means. That opinion is reinforced by the rare exception that makes it huge without even trying. But the vast majority of working-class musicians bust their tails off just to survive. I can give you lots of guys with tons more talent than would be needed to make it in any other industry that work rotton day jobs because they put all their eggs in the music basket..
I just figured out what the problem is... To be a "cool" musician you have to pretend like you don't care about what your doing. Outsiders translate to meaning lazy or easy or whatever they think it means. That opinion is reinforced by the rare exception that makes it huge without even trying. But the vast majority of working-class musicians bust their tails off just to survive. I can give you lots of guys with tons more talent than would be needed to make it in any other industry that work rotton day jobs because they put all their eggs in the music basket..
Do we value them enough to afford them the oppurtunity to make a living at it? It's not cheap keeping a band going, should only middle to upper class dilettantes be able to really go for it with mummy and daddy's backing? Or are there people who are worth supporting enough so that they can concentrate wholly on their music? I don't think there's anything wrong with musicians holding down day jobs and it shouldn't be too easy to make a living at it, but I know more than a couple of musicians who really rise above the amatures, wannabees and dabblers that truly (in my opinion) deserve to make a living at their craft.
Do we value them enough to afford them the oppurtunity to make a living at it?
The answer to that question is, obviously, yes.
Do we value musicians enough to make sure everyone who wants to play music is given guaranteed income so they can pursue their wish without having to do anything else? No, of course not, we're not that stupid.
Quote:
It's not cheap keeping a band going, should only middle to upper class dilettantes be able to really go for it with mummy and daddy's backing?
I have friends from Sulphur Springs who are in a band and are amazingly able to perform live, record material and hold jobs. All 3 of the Sulphur Springs guys come from families poor as shit. I'm failing to see the argument.
Quote:
Or are there people who are worth supporting enough so that they can concentrate wholly on their music?
What do you mean by "worth supporting"?
Quote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with musicians holding down day jobs and it shouldn't be too easy to make a living at it, but I know more than a couple of musicians who really rise above the amatures, wannabees and dabblers that truly (in my opinion) deserve to make a living at their craft.
Rat, I do not have the energy to argue point for point over something that inherently, at least to me, is an emotional argument, the kind of argument with little place for logic or reason.
Rat, I do not have the energy to argue point for point over something that inherently, at least to me, is an emotional argument, the kind of argument with little place for logic or reason.
Then understand the RIAA is *not* your friend and never will be as long as they continue to make such excuses. Just look at the completely opposite results the movie industry is seeing vs the recording industry. Is the movie industry inherently more profitable? No way, it's even harder for budding movie makers and actors to break into the biz. The reality is people know a bad deal when they see one. Whereas DVDs continue to fall in price, CD prices have risen until now.
And while I don't agree with the assertion that the quality of music is on the decline, I also don't believe music piracy is as pandemic as the RIAA claims it to be.
Musicians can make more money...a lot more money, and the RIAA can too...if only they would embrace the internet as a viable form of distribution rather than waste money trying to delay the inevitable. The longer they wait, the more people they lose to means of distribution they don't have any control over.
I have friends from Sulphur Springs who are in a band and are amazingly able to perform live, record material and hold jobs. All 3 of the Sulphur Springs guys come from families poor as shit. I'm failing to see the argument.
And again, how can they have demanding day jobs and spend their nights practicing and giging. I don't believe you can. Maybe you could be a garabage man, or have some other remedial job that requires no brain at all..
If to be a lawyer you had to work in 7 law firms, own your own law-related business, and teach 4 law classes at the local college just to make a lousy $40k, you would think that was absurd, wouldn't you?
And again, how can they have demanding day jobs and spend their nights practicing and giging. I don't believe you can. Maybe you could be a garabage man, or have some other remedial job that requires no brain at all..
"Demanding day job"? What is wrong with being a garbage man? Do you want $100k/year *and* freedom to pursue music 24/7?
What ever happened to artists having to sacrifice something?
Quote:
If to be a lawyer you had to work in 7 law firms, own your own law-related business, and teach 4 law classes at the local college just to make a lousy $40k, you would think that was absurd, wouldn't you?
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. That's an absolutely horrible analogy.
It obviously isn't absurd that people make lots of music and perform it live and record it. Some can make a living doing so, and yes, it is hard. But guess what, life is hard for lots of people. Musicians shouldn't be an exception.
"Demanding day job"? What is wrong with being a garbage man? Do you want $100k/year *and* freedom to pursue music 24/7?
What ever happened to artists having to sacrifice something?
If I could get the promise of success in writing, I would gladly sacrifice a few years. But I think the likelyhood of success is slim enough to make the suffering and sacrifice futile.
Quote:
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. That's an absolutely horrible analogy.
It obviously isn't absurd that people make lots of music and perform it live and record it. Some can make a living doing so, and yes, it is hard. But guess what, life is hard for lots of people. Musicians shouldn't be an exception.
Which is harder to do? Practice law or make music that others might want to listen to? (I know, depends on the person).. I would say, for the average person, musician. So thats why the analogy is valid... Because the people that are capable of doing it often are not recognized or compensated appropriately.
But I forget what the heck we're arguing about. I certainly have no complaints with my life and never suggested anybody should be an exception to the rules. I guess the point was just that I took offense to people claiming music was an easy career path.
"MATI is truly a one-stop shopping source for the molding and mold making industries, offering ejector sleeves, Ejector blades, Ejector pins, Step ejector pins, Core pins & Punches in India."
Comments
Originally posted by giant
I couldn't figure out what your point was before, but now that I have: you're wrong.
Ok, what musician do you know that made it that didn't practice at least 8 hours a day... I know lots that didn't make it that practiced far more.
So I guess by your measure they are not very good? BTW, this isn't whining and it's not support for the RIAA. I just don't think we value musicians enough.
I think we value musicians quite a bit. I think there are too many musicians to reach the kind of exposure so many want.
Then when they don't succeed they sit back and blame their lack of rent money on a wider cultural ennui. Sorry, bub, but you're just working your ass of in a dying trade or expecting too much out of it.
Musicians have to have day jobs!? THE HORROR!!
I mean you'll get people to gladly pay ten bucks to see a movie or for two beers at a bar, but if you want to hear whining just try and get them to pay five for a local band.
Well I think anyone will whine about spending five bucks for something they didn't ask for in the first place.
"Yay, you can play music and you think you're great. Can I go now?"
Originally posted by groverat
Musicians have to have day jobs!? THE HORROR!!
And again, who can do this? If you dedicate yourself to excellence in two different things, both will suffer.
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
Ok, what musician do you know that made it that didn't practice at least 8 hours a day... I know lots that didn't make it that practiced far more.
Made it? Made what? Pizza?
And practice? Come to think of it, I haven't heard a musician use that word in a while. Wait, I know a professional cello player that says that. Other than they, they just play music.
I'm totally waxing philosophic, but maybe the problem is that you view it as something outside of your normal life. Most musicians I know, myself included, just sort of do it. It's part of the natural flow. Anyway, I'll stop being philosophic and say that maybe it's because you guys spent too much time practicing and not enough time doing.
Who knows though? If you mean 'made it' as in millions of dollars, maybe you didn't 'make it' because you are like 99.99999% of musicians out there. If you mean 'made it' like 'make a steady living playing music,' then it's probably because you didn't do like Tonton's friend.
Originally posted by giant
I'm totally waxing philosophic, but maybe the problem is that you view it as something outside of your normal life. Most musicians I know, myself included, just sort of do it. It's part of the natural flow.
So you're a professional musician then. cool.
Who knows though? If you mean 'made it' as in millions of dollars, maybe you didn't 'make it' because you are like 99.99999% of musicians out there. If you mean 'made it' like 'make a steady living playing music,' then it's probably because you didn't do like Tonton's friend.
Tonton's frind is in SEVEN bands AND runs a studio AND teaches four instruments. Yes, thats true. I don't think I could maintain that pace. Certainly there are easier ways to make a living. If you are forced to do something you enjoy for 18 hours per day to survive, it wont be long before you stop enjoying it. I just feel sorry for the poor neglected kids hes pretending to raise while doing all that.
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
So you're a professional musician then. cool.
No. I do have a record label, though (maybe had. it's kind of neglected). Read my post above for a little background.
Tonton's frind is in SEVEN bands AND runs a studio AND teaches four instruments. Yes, thats true. I don't think I could maintain that pace. Certainly there are easier ways to make a living. If you are forced to do something you enjoy for 18 hours per day to survive, it wont be long before you stop enjoying it. I just feel sorry for the poor neglected kids hes pretending to raise while doing all that.
Most musicians I know (from local to internationally known ones) either have day jobs (though they often are in the music industry), work jobs like Tonton's friend or have a spouse that makes more money.
In fact, the reason I would hate to be a professional musician is that I see some fathers I know playing gigs multiple nights a week, still not making very much money. These guys tend to do it because they love it, and, as parents, rely on the income from their wives (assuming they aren't undercover spies opr anything )
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
I just figured out what the problem is... To be a "cool" musician you have to pretend like you don't care about what your doing. Outsiders translate to meaning lazy or easy or whatever they think it means. That opinion is reinforced by the rare exception that makes it huge without even trying. But the vast majority of working-class musicians bust their tails off just to survive. I can give you lots of guys with tons more talent than would be needed to make it in any other industry that work rotton day jobs because they put all their eggs in the music basket..
I agree
And again, who can do this? If you dedicate yourself to excellence in two different things, both will suffer.
Apparently a lot of people can do it.
think we value musicians quite a bit.
Do we value them enough to afford them the oppurtunity to make a living at it? It's not cheap keeping a band going, should only middle to upper class dilettantes be able to really go for it with mummy and daddy's backing? Or are there people who are worth supporting enough so that they can concentrate wholly on their music? I don't think there's anything wrong with musicians holding down day jobs and it shouldn't be too easy to make a living at it, but I know more than a couple of musicians who really rise above the amatures, wannabees and dabblers that truly (in my opinion) deserve to make a living at their craft.
Do we value them enough to afford them the oppurtunity to make a living at it?
The answer to that question is, obviously, yes.
Do we value musicians enough to make sure everyone who wants to play music is given guaranteed income so they can pursue their wish without having to do anything else? No, of course not, we're not that stupid.
It's not cheap keeping a band going, should only middle to upper class dilettantes be able to really go for it with mummy and daddy's backing?
I have friends from Sulphur Springs who are in a band and are amazingly able to perform live, record material and hold jobs. All 3 of the Sulphur Springs guys come from families poor as shit. I'm failing to see the argument.
Or are there people who are worth supporting enough so that they can concentrate wholly on their music?
What do you mean by "worth supporting"?
I don't think there's anything wrong with musicians holding down day jobs and it shouldn't be too easy to make a living at it, but I know more than a couple of musicians who really rise above the amatures, wannabees and dabblers that truly (in my opinion) deserve to make a living at their craft.
"Deserve"?
Originally posted by trick fall
Rat, I do not have the energy to argue point for point over something that inherently, at least to me, is an emotional argument, the kind of argument with little place for logic or reason.
Then understand the RIAA is *not* your friend and never will be as long as they continue to make such excuses. Just look at the completely opposite results the movie industry is seeing vs the recording industry. Is the movie industry inherently more profitable? No way, it's even harder for budding movie makers and actors to break into the biz. The reality is people know a bad deal when they see one. Whereas DVDs continue to fall in price, CD prices have risen until now.
And while I don't agree with the assertion that the quality of music is on the decline, I also don't believe music piracy is as pandemic as the RIAA claims it to be.
Musicians can make more money...a lot more money, and the RIAA can too...if only they would embrace the internet as a viable form of distribution rather than waste money trying to delay the inevitable. The longer they wait, the more people they lose to means of distribution they don't have any control over.
Originally posted by groverat
I have friends from Sulphur Springs who are in a band and are amazingly able to perform live, record material and hold jobs. All 3 of the Sulphur Springs guys come from families poor as shit. I'm failing to see the argument.
And again, how can they have demanding day jobs and spend their nights practicing and giging. I don't believe you can. Maybe you could be a garabage man, or have some other remedial job that requires no brain at all..
If to be a lawyer you had to work in 7 law firms, own your own law-related business, and teach 4 law classes at the local college just to make a lousy $40k, you would think that was absurd, wouldn't you?
And again, how can they have demanding day jobs and spend their nights practicing and giging. I don't believe you can. Maybe you could be a garabage man, or have some other remedial job that requires no brain at all..
"Demanding day job"? What is wrong with being a garbage man? Do you want $100k/year *and* freedom to pursue music 24/7?
What ever happened to artists having to sacrifice something?
If to be a lawyer you had to work in 7 law firms, own your own law-related business, and teach 4 law classes at the local college just to make a lousy $40k, you would think that was absurd, wouldn't you?
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. That's an absolutely horrible analogy.
It obviously isn't absurd that people make lots of music and perform it live and record it. Some can make a living doing so, and yes, it is hard. But guess what, life is hard for lots of people. Musicians shouldn't be an exception.
Originally posted by groverat
Jukebox Hero:
"Demanding day job"? What is wrong with being a garbage man? Do you want $100k/year *and* freedom to pursue music 24/7?
What ever happened to artists having to sacrifice something?
If I could get the promise of success in writing, I would gladly sacrifice a few years. But I think the likelyhood of success is slim enough to make the suffering and sacrifice futile.
Quote:
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. That's an absolutely horrible analogy.
It obviously isn't absurd that people make lots of music and perform it live and record it. Some can make a living doing so, and yes, it is hard. But guess what, life is hard for lots of people. Musicians shouldn't be an exception.
Which is harder to do? Practice law or make music that others might want to listen to? (I know, depends on the person).. I would say, for the average person, musician. So thats why the analogy is valid... Because the people that are capable of doing it often are not recognized or compensated appropriately.
But I forget what the heck we're arguing about. I certainly have no complaints with my life and never suggested anybody should be an exception to the rules. I guess the point was just that I took offense to people claiming music was an easy career path.
"MATI is truly a one-stop shopping source for the molding and mold making industries, offering ejector sleeves, Ejector blades, Ejector pins, Step ejector pins, Core pins & Punches in India."
for more details
http://www.matiworld.in/