I did not speak of exploiting people, or harm people, i was just speaking of books with titles like "how to become a millionaire in ten lessons", " the shortest way of sucess in life" ... and so on.
Discussions tend to become too serious here on AO, especially a discussion where none of the posters seems to be personally implied ...
I would bet that we have a few millionaires on these forums. At a minimum we have a few folks will likely be millionaires someday.
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
I would bet that we have a few millionaires on these forums. At a minimum we have a few folks will likely be millionaires someday.
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
Nick
I agree with much of what you have said, but you have to admit that luck does play a role (in varying amounts) in someones success.
Personally, I've had a rags to (somewhat) riches story, much of it precipitated by chance meetings with people who could make my plans happen, but I've worked my ass off to make those lucky encounters produce the results I wanted. I'm the first to admit that had it not been for that bit of luck I'd still be earning a low wage while dreaming of how to put my knowledge to work.
You seem to be well on your way to a comfortable life. If I recall correctly, your start in the world of real-estate was prompted by a sweetheart of a deal with someone you had met. Although you obviously possess the knowledge and drive to 'make it', you were given a bit of a helping hand by luck/circumstance.
Being in the right place at the right time can do so much more for ones options than pure knowledge. A happy marriage between the two is obviously the ideal.
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
Nick
Did i say that ?
No. I'll add that i may be a millionaire (if one million is sufficiant to become one), when i will be near the retirement. And i will not say it's because of luck or oppression.
I guess you assume that i am a sort of commie who think that you are millionnaire just by luck or oppression. Strange to assume that a surgeon who work in a private hospital (understand free lance), will have such idears on the subject. Or is my nationality sufficiant in itself to assume this point of vue ?
Perhaps i did not understand anything to your post due to my odd english : this is certainly the best explanation ...
I can do what I want OR I can have lots of money. It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to sell yourself out, never see your children, and slave away for ungodly hours in order to acquire a high net worth.
You just don't get it do you? You have these huge ideology glasses on and can't see past them.
Let me make it simple for you: Everything you have said in this thread assumes that the world is intensely more simplistic than it is.
For the other part of what you are saying here, you apparently have had to slave away, and you still don't have very much money. You have 5 single family homes that you rent out, correct. It's likely you don't have those under a management company, as we often do here. Buying and maintaining those homes must be chore. You also have to study in order to know anything about finance.
As for my financial situation, you once again wrongly assessed the situation because you just simplify and then imagine, somehow thinking you can infer reality that way.
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start.
While you sit back and pat yourself on the back for what you think you know or have figured out, the real world is going by with greater complexity than you can ever imagine. What's the best way to be consistently wrong? Assume you can infer things you have zero information about.
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
No. I'll add that i may be a millionaire (if one million is sufficiant to become one), when i will be near the retirement. And i will not say it's because of luck or oppression.
I guess you assume that i am a sort of commie who think that you are millionnaire just by luck or oppression. Strange to assume that a surgeon who work in a private hospital (understand free lance), will have such idears on the subject. Or is my nationality sufficiant in itself to assume this point of vue ?
Perhaps i did not understand anything to your post due to my odd english : this is certainly the best explanation ...
Naw Doc, I was just having some fun. I said that if the millionaires on the board happened to become giant and shetline, (as opposed to you I and others) that they should give away all their money since their views, to varying degrees, attributed it to pretty much luck of the draw.
The only assumptions I make about you being French is that you could pick a better wine than I could at dinner.
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start. In fact, most people I know are that way.
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
I know where your income come from : Oil.
How did i come to this brillant conclusion ? It's quite simple : Giant is the movie with Rock Hudson and James Dean dealing with a rivaltry among oil producer. Elementary my dear Watson !
I agree with much of what you have said, but you have to admit that luck does play a role (in varying amounts) in someones success.
Personally, I've had a rags to (somewhat) riches story, much of it precipitated by chance meetings with people who could make my plans happen, but I've worked my ass off to make those lucky encounters produce the results I wanted. I'm the first to admit that had it not been for that bit of luck I'd still be earning a low wage while dreaming of how to put my knowledge to work.
You seem to be well on your way to a comfortable life. If I recall correctly, your start in the world of real-estate was prompted by a sweetheart of a deal with someone you had met. Although you obviously possess the knowledge and drive to 'make it', you were given a bit of a helping hand by luck/circumstance.
Being in the right place at the right time can do so much more for ones options than pure knowledge. A happy marriage between the two is obviously the ideal.
I found an ad in the local free ad newspaper. I assumed a property for free as a result. The property soon badly flipped in price however. (It was worth less than the mortgage) It did so almost -$40,000. As a result I couldn't sell it and had to rent it out when I wanted to move. So out of desperation, before giving it to the bank, I bought a book on landlording. About 5 years later, and a total of eight years after I bought it, I sold it for $15,000 profit.
So I guess that would be luck by some definition.\
I found an ad in the local free ad newspaper. I assumed a property for free as a result. The property soon badly flipped in price however. (It was worth less than the mortgage) It did so almost -$40,000. As a result I couldn't sell it and had to rent it out when I wanted to move. So out of desperation, before giving it to the bank, I bought a book on landlording. About 5 years later, and a total of eight years after I bought it, I sold it for $15,000 profit.
So I guess that would be luck by some definition.\
Nick
I didn't know about the market loss on the property. \
I still contend that (good) luck does play a role in success.
Sufficient commitment is the trait to which I would assign the most value. I have met very few persistent people in my life.
So... sufficient commitment is the most important key to success. And how can you tell whether or not someone gave sufficient commitment? Why, see if they've succeeded of course! Great advice, or meaningless tautology? You decide!
Bad luck? You make your luck in this world.
You might as well just have repeated the snide "Luck is for losers" line I attributed to this attitude before.
How much is life like chess, and how much is it like poker? How much, for that matter, is it like a lottery? Of course it's important to work hard and make wise decisions and to commit to the things you want to achieve. However, what makes you, or so many other people with the "you get what you deserve in life" attitude, so certain that chance plays so small a role next to everything else?
Sure someone could fail against all odds, repeatedly, for their entire lives. But if you never gained any success from all those failures did you really learn and apply any new knowledge?
Failure brings with it the opportunity to grow and learn so that you don't repeat the process. If you just go on repeating the failing process, then you didn't really learn anything by failing.
If you throw a pair of dice trying for snake eyes and fail, how do you "apply what you've learned from failure" to the next throw of the dice? The answer is you don't. There's nothing to learn that applies to the next time.
Not all of life is so random, but who's to say how much chance might contribute to failure at one business endeavor, and how little there might be that can be applied from one failure to help succeed at one's next attempt?
However I haven't encountered examples of where someone did everything right and then just ended up as failures.
I doubt most of the people who succeed at business do everything right. If someone doesn't succeed, you can always find something you think they did wrong to point to as a reason for failure. But how meaningful is that when people who succeed also make mistakes?
Since you claim these stories are ignored why don't you post some or link to some.
Let me give you a hypothetical and then prove a point in reality with it. Oh sorry....
You'd have to first provide object criteria for "traits for success" and for "degree of commitment" -- criteria that define those characteristics apart from the tautological definition that the traits are found where success is found.
My hypothetical situation was only to get you to think about how chance can play into life, yet be totally ignored when the stories of people's lives are told. But just because the messy, complicated nature of life makes it hard to pin down and isolate all of the variables doesn't mean that you can ignore the role chance plays.
I have always liked this quote by Calvin Coolidge. It sums up what I think well.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Not a bad quote... except when it veers into unnecessary and unverifiable overstatement with the word "omnipotent". I believe that kind of overstatement is often fed by a self-aggrandizing element in people who consider themselves successful, who wish to believe it is their own positive traits, not luck, that have put them where they are. And, as I said before, it allows the successful to dismiss those less fortunate than themselves as being less deserving.
You just don't get it do you? You have these huge ideology glasses on and can't see past them.
Let me make it simple for you: Everything you have said in this thread assumes that the world is intensely more simplistic than it is.
Things aren't always complex, especially making money. Perhaps the love of a woman is a complex issue, but adding value to something or getting a return from an investment really isn't that hard. Most people just don't get themselves into a position where they can even experiment and find out what sort of financial plans work for them.
Think of it like fitness. There lots of contention about how much of what to eat, how much cardio vs how much lifting, etc. What is fitness vs. premature wear on joints, etc. It is a pretty complex issue when you think about it. However that really only becomes true if you are the one reading about it on the couch. Getting the feedback from your own body helps you to distill that complexity down to what works for you pretty quickly.
Quote:
For the other part of what you are saying here, you apparently have had to slave away, and you still don't have very much money. You have 5 single family homes that you rent out, correct. It's likely you don't have those under a management company, as we often do here. Buying and maintaining those homes must be chore. You also have to study in order to know anything about finance.
Don't forget the apartment building.
Landlording is pretty easy actually. I tell people that the biggest mistake people make with rentals is calling it property management. The property doesn't do anything. It is the people. Rentals are people management.
Being a teacher, I have just a little experience with people management. My houses don't require lots of work at all. I will admit they do when I first purchase them but then I make quite a bit of money in terms of equity for that week or so's work. My rents are deposited electronically. The bills are paid via the internet. I take about 2 calls a month on my cell phone. The renters all sign minimum one year leases and often renew for another year.
Rentals are passive income. If I had to do work to get it, I wouldn't be interested in it since I already have a job.
The studying... I read several books about fixing homes and managing rentals. I would put the total number of books at about seven and their total value at about $150.
As for not having much money, I see you couldn't find anywhere where I had "bragged" about my net worth. I suppose you enjoy claiming I am "poor" in an attempt to get my to declare what it must be. I'll give you a hint at it since a friend on these board told me it is rude to talk hard numbers. Let's just say I am worth more than any of the people in those articles I posted. So now perhaps you won't feel so bad as I slave away twice a month on my cell phone.
Quote:
As for my financial situation, you once again wrongly assessed the situation because you just simplify and then imagine, somehow thinking you can infer reality that way.
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start.
So I won't deal with them then. I don't mind that I guessed wrong at your background. I assure you it was no more of a bad guess than what you took at mine. If you don't know where to start, then don't. No one has said you have to share anything or even post anything.
If you care to share then that is up to you. I have personally thought of forming an AI/AO investing club because I have wanted to get into stocks and have never owned any. If you are trading in futures, shorting stocks or some other issues I haven't dealt with then I'll be happy to listen and learn. Likewise if you want some info a what's a cosmetic fixer versus a condemnable money pit, I'm your man.
Quote:
While you sit back and pat yourself on the back for what you think you know or have figured out, the real world is going by with greater complexity than you can ever imagine. What's the best way to be consistently wrong? Assume you can infer things you have zero information about.
Perhaps what you deal with is complex. Mine is quite simple. All people need a place to live. I provide them at slightly above fair market rents but with some nice extra amenities. Likewise real estate is limited. They can make more cars, more computers, and even build more houses, but they can't make more land. Likewise a few simple things can make people especially happy enough to pay a clear premium above the sum of the parts. Apple is a great example of this but in housing it can be things like ceiling fans, crown molding, updated flooring, clean, warm, white paint, etc.
For example in Real Estate they tease that the three most important factors in buying a house are location, location, and location. The locations in which I buy my homes are upper middle class and up. The neighbors actually thank me when I remove the eye sore it was from the neighborhood. I give them my cell phone number and THEY manage the homes for me since I promise them a good tenant. THEY will let me know if someone is throwing a party, not keeping up the lawn, etc.
However since I select good tenants they don't have to deal with even issues of that nature. Better yet I let them pick their neighbor by giving me referrals. It is far to simple and easy.
Pretty homes, good neighbors, good locations, simple stuff.
Sort of like taking a $.05 potato and making it a $1.29 bag of potato chips or french fries. (People should think about that when they consider why every restaurant lets you "supersize" your fries and drink. It is where they make the most money) It is like taking some water and adding some sugar, etc to it and calling it Coke.
Quote:
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
Sounds like good advice and I think the couples I posted and myself follow it. I'm a teacher who happens to enjoy real estate and benefit from that. I get to spend time with other people's kids and my own pretty much all day every day. I only work 176 days a year and we enjoy traveling the rest of the time.
Honestly giant, do you think they articles I posted are that different from you advocated right there? From what I saw, most of them weren't in some rat race. They seemded to have their priorities pretty straight. I could see your point if I were posting about some internet IPO millionaire of something of that nature flashing some bling, bling and chasing after all the wrong things. I could understand it if I posted articles about folks who had a lot of material possessions, high paying jobs, but no investments or net worth. However I thought what I posted is right up the alley you just advocated.
So... sufficient commitment is the most important key to success. And how can you tell whether or not someone gave sufficient commitment? Why, see if they've succeeded of course! Great advice, or meaningless tautology? You decide!
Bad luck? You make your luck in this world.
You might as well just have repeated the snide "Luck is for losers" line I attributed to this attitude before.
How much is life like chess, and how much is it like poker? How much, for that matter, is it like a lottery? Of course it's important to work hard and make wise decisions and to commit to the things you want to achieve. However, what makes you, or so many other people with the "you get what you deserve in life" attitude, so certain that chance plays so small a role next to everything else?
Sure someone could fail against all odds, repeatedly, for their entire lives. But if you never gained any success from all those failures did you really learn and apply any new knowledge?
Failure brings with it the opportunity to grow and learn so that you don't repeat the process. If you just go on repeating the failing process, then you didn't really learn anything by failing.
If you throw a pair of dice trying for snake eyes and fail, how do you "apply what you've learned from failure" to the next throw of the dice? The answer is you don't. There's nothing to learn that applies to the next time.
Not all of life is so random, but who's to say how much chance might contribute to failure at one business endeavor, and how little there might be that can be applied from one failure to help succeed at one's next attempt?
However I haven't encountered examples of where someone did everything right and then just ended up as failures.
I doubt most of the people who succeed at business do everything right. If someone doesn't succeed, you can always find something you think they did wrong to point to as a reason for failure. But how meaningful is that when people who succeed also make mistakes?
Since you claim these stories are ignored why don't you post some or link to some.
Let me give you a hypothetical and then prove a point in reality with it. Oh sorry....
You'd have to first provide object criteria for "traits for success" and for "degree of commitment" -- criteria that define those characteristics apart from the tautological definition that the traits are found where success is found.
My hypothetical situation was only to get you to think about how chance can play into life, yet be totally ignored when the stories of people's lives are told. But just because the messy, complicated nature of life makes it hard to pin down and isolate all of the variables doesn't mean that you can ignore the role chance plays.
I have always liked this quote by Calvin Coolidge. It sums up what I think well.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Not a bad quote... except when it veers into unnecessary and unverifiable overstatement with the word "omnipotent". I believe that kind of overstatement is often fed by a self-aggrandizing element in people who consider themselves successful, who wish to believe it is their own positive traits, not luck, that have put them where they are. And, as I said before, it allows the successful to dismiss those less fortunate than themselves as being less deserving.
Shet,
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I thought my posts were long. Also the way you reply makes it really hard to quote from ya.
I doubt I could change your worldview via a post in these forums. Your view is yours and you are welcome to it. Mine matches my experiences. Likewise chance can perhaps end a hard sought opportunity, but there is no opportunity if there is no effort. I could die or be mauled in a car accident tomorrow. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop striving today or that my successes were not earned.
Comments
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I did not speak of exploiting people, or harm people, i was just speaking of books with titles like "how to become a millionaire in ten lessons", " the shortest way of sucess in life" ... and so on.
Discussions tend to become too serious here on AO, especially a discussion where none of the posters seems to be personally implied ...
I would bet that we have a few millionaires on these forums. At a minimum we have a few folks will likely be millionaires someday.
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I would bet that we have a few millionaires on these forums. At a minimum we have a few folks will likely be millionaires someday.
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
Nick
I agree with much of what you have said, but you have to admit that luck does play a role (in varying amounts) in someones success.
Personally, I've had a rags to (somewhat) riches story, much of it precipitated by chance meetings with people who could make my plans happen, but I've worked my ass off to make those lucky encounters produce the results I wanted. I'm the first to admit that had it not been for that bit of luck I'd still be earning a low wage while dreaming of how to put my knowledge to work.
You seem to be well on your way to a comfortable life. If I recall correctly, your start in the world of real-estate was prompted by a sweetheart of a deal with someone you had met. Although you obviously possess the knowledge and drive to 'make it', you were given a bit of a helping hand by luck/circumstance.
Being in the right place at the right time can do so much more for ones options than pure knowledge. A happy marriage between the two is obviously the ideal.
Originally posted by trumptman
Just makes sure that if those few happen to be giant or shetline they give all their money to you since it was nothing but blind luck or oppression of others that got them there.
Nick
Did i say that ?
No. I'll add that i may be a millionaire (if one million is sufficiant to become one), when i will be near the retirement. And i will not say it's because of luck or oppression.
I guess you assume that i am a sort of commie who think that you are millionnaire just by luck or oppression. Strange to assume that a surgeon who work in a private hospital (understand free lance), will have such idears on the subject. Or is my nationality sufficiant in itself to assume this point of vue ?
Perhaps i did not understand anything to your post due to my odd english : this is certainly the best explanation ...
Originally posted by trumptman
I can do what I want OR I can have lots of money. It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to sell yourself out, never see your children, and slave away for ungodly hours in order to acquire a high net worth.
You just don't get it do you? You have these huge ideology glasses on and can't see past them.
Let me make it simple for you: Everything you have said in this thread assumes that the world is intensely more simplistic than it is.
For the other part of what you are saying here, you apparently have had to slave away, and you still don't have very much money. You have 5 single family homes that you rent out, correct. It's likely you don't have those under a management company, as we often do here. Buying and maintaining those homes must be chore. You also have to study in order to know anything about finance.
As for my financial situation, you once again wrongly assessed the situation because you just simplify and then imagine, somehow thinking you can infer reality that way.
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start.
While you sit back and pat yourself on the back for what you think you know or have figured out, the real world is going by with greater complexity than you can ever imagine. What's the best way to be consistently wrong? Assume you can infer things you have zero information about.
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Did i say that ?
No. I'll add that i may be a millionaire (if one million is sufficiant to become one), when i will be near the retirement. And i will not say it's because of luck or oppression.
I guess you assume that i am a sort of commie who think that you are millionnaire just by luck or oppression. Strange to assume that a surgeon who work in a private hospital (understand free lance), will have such idears on the subject. Or is my nationality sufficiant in itself to assume this point of vue ?
Perhaps i did not understand anything to your post due to my odd english : this is certainly the best explanation ...
Naw Doc, I was just having some fun. I said that if the millionaires on the board happened to become giant and shetline, (as opposed to you I and others) that they should give away all their money since their views, to varying degrees, attributed it to pretty much luck of the draw.
The only assumptions I make about you being French is that you could pick a better wine than I could at dinner.
Nick
Originally posted by giant
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start. In fact, most people I know are that way.
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
I know where your income come from : Oil.
How did i come to this brillant conclusion ? It's quite simple : Giant is the movie with Rock Hudson and James Dean dealing with a rivaltry among oil producer. Elementary my dear Watson !
Originally posted by trumptman
The only assumptions I make about you being French is that you could pick a better wine than I could at dinner.
Nick
I have heard that the Nappa valley offer some great wines also
I have some few bottles, if you come near my home, we can have any of them at lunch or dinner
This suggestion is also avalaible for any members around here, except for Jonathan who is able to drink all my cave, according to people in the know
Originally posted by audiopollution
I agree with much of what you have said, but you have to admit that luck does play a role (in varying amounts) in someones success.
Personally, I've had a rags to (somewhat) riches story, much of it precipitated by chance meetings with people who could make my plans happen, but I've worked my ass off to make those lucky encounters produce the results I wanted. I'm the first to admit that had it not been for that bit of luck I'd still be earning a low wage while dreaming of how to put my knowledge to work.
You seem to be well on your way to a comfortable life. If I recall correctly, your start in the world of real-estate was prompted by a sweetheart of a deal with someone you had met. Although you obviously possess the knowledge and drive to 'make it', you were given a bit of a helping hand by luck/circumstance.
Being in the right place at the right time can do so much more for ones options than pure knowledge. A happy marriage between the two is obviously the ideal.
I found an ad in the local free ad newspaper. I assumed a property for free as a result. The property soon badly flipped in price however. (It was worth less than the mortgage) It did so almost -$40,000. As a result I couldn't sell it and had to rent it out when I wanted to move. So out of desperation, before giving it to the bank, I bought a book on landlording. About 5 years later, and a total of eight years after I bought it, I sold it for $15,000 profit.
So I guess that would be luck by some definition.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I found an ad in the local free ad newspaper. I assumed a property for free as a result. The property soon badly flipped in price however. (It was worth less than the mortgage) It did so almost -$40,000. As a result I couldn't sell it and had to rent it out when I wanted to move. So out of desperation, before giving it to the bank, I bought a book on landlording. About 5 years later, and a total of eight years after I bought it, I sold it for $15,000 profit.
So I guess that would be luck by some definition.
Nick
I didn't know about the market loss on the property.
I still contend that (good) luck does play a role in success.
Originally posted by trumptman
Sufficient commitment is the trait to which I would assign the most value. I have met very few persistent people in my life.
So... sufficient commitment is the most important key to success. And how can you tell whether or not someone gave sufficient commitment? Why, see if they've succeeded of course! Great advice, or meaningless tautology? You decide!
Bad luck? You make your luck in this world.
You might as well just have repeated the snide "Luck is for losers" line I attributed to this attitude before.
How much is life like chess, and how much is it like poker? How much, for that matter, is it like a lottery? Of course it's important to work hard and make wise decisions and to commit to the things you want to achieve. However, what makes you, or so many other people with the "you get what you deserve in life" attitude, so certain that chance plays so small a role next to everything else?
Sure someone could fail against all odds, repeatedly, for their entire lives. But if you never gained any success from all those failures did you really learn and apply any new knowledge?
Failure brings with it the opportunity to grow and learn so that you don't repeat the process. If you just go on repeating the failing process, then you didn't really learn anything by failing.
If you throw a pair of dice trying for snake eyes and fail, how do you "apply what you've learned from failure" to the next throw of the dice? The answer is you don't. There's nothing to learn that applies to the next time.
Not all of life is so random, but who's to say how much chance might contribute to failure at one business endeavor, and how little there might be that can be applied from one failure to help succeed at one's next attempt?
However I haven't encountered examples of where someone did everything right and then just ended up as failures.
I doubt most of the people who succeed at business do everything right. If someone doesn't succeed, you can always find something you think they did wrong to point to as a reason for failure. But how meaningful is that when people who succeed also make mistakes?
Since you claim these stories are ignored why don't you post some or link to some.
Let me give you a hypothetical and then prove a point in reality with it. Oh sorry....
You'd have to first provide object criteria for "traits for success" and for "degree of commitment" -- criteria that define those characteristics apart from the tautological definition that the traits are found where success is found.
My hypothetical situation was only to get you to think about how chance can play into life, yet be totally ignored when the stories of people's lives are told. But just because the messy, complicated nature of life makes it hard to pin down and isolate all of the variables doesn't mean that you can ignore the role chance plays.
I have always liked this quote by Calvin Coolidge. It sums up what I think well.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Not a bad quote... except when it veers into unnecessary and unverifiable overstatement with the word "omnipotent". I believe that kind of overstatement is often fed by a self-aggrandizing element in people who consider themselves successful, who wish to believe it is their own positive traits, not luck, that have put them where they are. And, as I said before, it allows the successful to dismiss those less fortunate than themselves as being less deserving.
Originally posted by giant
You just don't get it do you? You have these huge ideology glasses on and can't see past them.
Let me make it simple for you: Everything you have said in this thread assumes that the world is intensely more simplistic than it is.
Things aren't always complex, especially making money. Perhaps the love of a woman is a complex issue, but adding value to something or getting a return from an investment really isn't that hard. Most people just don't get themselves into a position where they can even experiment and find out what sort of financial plans work for them.
Think of it like fitness. There lots of contention about how much of what to eat, how much cardio vs how much lifting, etc. What is fitness vs. premature wear on joints, etc. It is a pretty complex issue when you think about it. However that really only becomes true if you are the one reading about it on the couch. Getting the feedback from your own body helps you to distill that complexity down to what works for you pretty quickly.
For the other part of what you are saying here, you apparently have had to slave away, and you still don't have very much money. You have 5 single family homes that you rent out, correct. It's likely you don't have those under a management company, as we often do here. Buying and maintaining those homes must be chore. You also have to study in order to know anything about finance.
Don't forget the apartment building.
Landlording is pretty easy actually. I tell people that the biggest mistake people make with rentals is calling it property management. The property doesn't do anything. It is the people. Rentals are people management.
Being a teacher, I have just a little experience with people management. My houses don't require lots of work at all. I will admit they do when I first purchase them but then I make quite a bit of money in terms of equity for that week or so's work. My rents are deposited electronically. The bills are paid via the internet. I take about 2 calls a month on my cell phone. The renters all sign minimum one year leases and often renew for another year.
Rentals are passive income. If I had to do work to get it, I wouldn't be interested in it since I already have a job.
The studying... I read several books about fixing homes and managing rentals. I would put the total number of books at about seven and their total value at about $150.
As for not having much money, I see you couldn't find anywhere where I had "bragged" about my net worth. I suppose you enjoy claiming I am "poor" in an attempt to get my to declare what it must be. I'll give you a hint at it since a friend on these board told me it is rude to talk hard numbers.
As for my financial situation, you once again wrongly assessed the situation because you just simplify and then imagine, somehow thinking you can infer reality that way.
I'll just put it this way: my life and sources of income are more complex than you can deal with. I wouldn't even know where to start.
So I won't deal with them then. I don't mind that I guessed wrong at your background. I assure you it was no more of a bad guess than what you took at mine. If you don't know where to start, then don't. No one has said you have to share anything or even post anything.
If you care to share then that is up to you. I have personally thought of forming an AI/AO investing club because I have wanted to get into stocks and have never owned any. If you are trading in futures, shorting stocks or some other issues I haven't dealt with then I'll be happy to listen and learn. Likewise if you want some info a what's a cosmetic fixer versus a condemnable money pit, I'm your man.
While you sit back and pat yourself on the back for what you think you know or have figured out, the real world is going by with greater complexity than you can ever imagine. What's the best way to be consistently wrong? Assume you can infer things you have zero information about.
Perhaps what you deal with is complex. Mine is quite simple. All people need a place to live. I provide them at slightly above fair market rents but with some nice extra amenities. Likewise real estate is limited. They can make more cars, more computers, and even build more houses, but they can't make more land. Likewise a few simple things can make people especially happy enough to pay a clear premium above the sum of the parts. Apple is a great example of this but in housing it can be things like ceiling fans, crown molding, updated flooring, clean, warm, white paint, etc.
For example in Real Estate they tease that the three most important factors in buying a house are location, location, and location. The locations in which I buy my homes are upper middle class and up. The neighbors actually thank me when I remove the eye sore it was from the neighborhood. I give them my cell phone number and THEY manage the homes for me since I promise them a good tenant. THEY will let me know if someone is throwing a party, not keeping up the lawn, etc.
However since I select good tenants they don't have to deal with even issues of that nature. Better yet I let them pick their neighbor by giving me referrals. It is far to simple and easy.
Pretty homes, good neighbors, good locations, simple stuff.
Sort of like taking a $.05 potato and making it a $1.29 bag of potato chips or french fries. (People should think about that when they consider why every restaurant lets you "supersize" your fries and drink. It is where they make the most money) It is like taking some water and adding some sugar, etc to it and calling it Coke.
You know what the best path to happiness with money is? Common put it perfectly: I make money, money doesn't make me. Do what you love, be a service to people and don't spend your money on useless crap. In today's world, it really is the one thing that is that simple.
Sounds like good advice and I think the couples I posted and myself follow it. I'm a teacher who happens to enjoy real estate and benefit from that. I get to spend time with other people's kids and my own pretty much all day every day. I only work 176 days a year and we enjoy traveling the rest of the time.
Honestly giant, do you think they articles I posted are that different from you advocated right there? From what I saw, most of them weren't in some rat race. They seemded to have their priorities pretty straight. I could see your point if I were posting about some internet IPO millionaire of something of that nature flashing some bling, bling and chasing after all the wrong things. I could understand it if I posted articles about folks who had a lot of material possessions, high paying jobs, but no investments or net worth. However I thought what I posted is right up the alley you just advocated.
Nick
Originally posted by shetline
So... sufficient commitment is the most important key to success. And how can you tell whether or not someone gave sufficient commitment? Why, see if they've succeeded of course! Great advice, or meaningless tautology? You decide!
Bad luck? You make your luck in this world.
You might as well just have repeated the snide "Luck is for losers" line I attributed to this attitude before.
How much is life like chess, and how much is it like poker? How much, for that matter, is it like a lottery? Of course it's important to work hard and make wise decisions and to commit to the things you want to achieve. However, what makes you, or so many other people with the "you get what you deserve in life" attitude, so certain that chance plays so small a role next to everything else?
Sure someone could fail against all odds, repeatedly, for their entire lives. But if you never gained any success from all those failures did you really learn and apply any new knowledge?
Failure brings with it the opportunity to grow and learn so that you don't repeat the process. If you just go on repeating the failing process, then you didn't really learn anything by failing.
If you throw a pair of dice trying for snake eyes and fail, how do you "apply what you've learned from failure" to the next throw of the dice? The answer is you don't. There's nothing to learn that applies to the next time.
Not all of life is so random, but who's to say how much chance might contribute to failure at one business endeavor, and how little there might be that can be applied from one failure to help succeed at one's next attempt?
However I haven't encountered examples of where someone did everything right and then just ended up as failures.
I doubt most of the people who succeed at business do everything right. If someone doesn't succeed, you can always find something you think they did wrong to point to as a reason for failure. But how meaningful is that when people who succeed also make mistakes?
Since you claim these stories are ignored why don't you post some or link to some.
Let me give you a hypothetical and then prove a point in reality with it. Oh sorry....
You'd have to first provide object criteria for "traits for success" and for "degree of commitment" -- criteria that define those characteristics apart from the tautological definition that the traits are found where success is found.
My hypothetical situation was only to get you to think about how chance can play into life, yet be totally ignored when the stories of people's lives are told. But just because the messy, complicated nature of life makes it hard to pin down and isolate all of the variables doesn't mean that you can ignore the role chance plays.
I have always liked this quote by Calvin Coolidge. It sums up what I think well.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Not a bad quote... except when it veers into unnecessary and unverifiable overstatement with the word "omnipotent". I believe that kind of overstatement is often fed by a self-aggrandizing element in people who consider themselves successful, who wish to believe it is their own positive traits, not luck, that have put them where they are. And, as I said before, it allows the successful to dismiss those less fortunate than themselves as being less deserving.
Shet,
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I thought my posts were long.
I doubt I could change your worldview via a post in these forums. Your view is yours and you are welcome to it. Mine matches my experiences. Likewise chance can perhaps end a hard sought opportunity, but there is no opportunity if there is no effort. I could die or be mauled in a car accident tomorrow. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop striving today or that my successes were not earned.
Nick