I wish they would update it more, or has development stopped?
Browse through Pinkerton's old blogs and you may find some tidbits...
Quote:
Initially, Camino (then Chimera) did release early and often and it garnered a loyal following who couldn't wait to get their hands on the next release. The problem stems from our own success. Camino 0.7 was so stable and polished that people came to treat it as they would a 1.0 product. Releasing another version of lesser quality would be seen as a black-eye to the project as a whole, that quality was slipping, and what once was a promising product was now beginning to collapse under its own weight.
Quote:
What we haven't done lately is communicate, to be open and slutty with our direction. We haven't done a good job promoting Camino since 0.7 shipped. That's where we can take a cue from the Firebird Browser team. A roadmap is needed, as is a "Why Use Camino Over Safari?" webpage. We need to get people interested again. Will 0.7.5 help that? Maybe it would, but it could be equally as dangerous.
Right now it seems we're stuck in a catch-22: we can't gather developer interest without shipping a version and we can't ship a version without developer interest. We're triaging bugs because being able to point developers to a single list that we can drive to zarro boogs is, in my opinion, the best way to engage the development community, and what this project has been lacking since AOL began to fund its development. Now that AOL has fully withdrawn all support (even for Gecko itself), we need developers more than ever. I understand that the end-users on the various lists don't give a donkey about bug triage, they simply want new bits to play with. I just don't think we can get them bits without focused development.
well, today i switched to firebird and thunderbird as my main browser and e-mail client on os x. i guess i was tired of some minor quirks with safari and mail.crap. yeah they look linux like but more important to me is reliability. it will take a little getting used to but so far i am very pleased.
The only browser that looks good in OS X is Safari with IE a distant second. Omniweb is ok but feels alien and development is lagging. People do not pay for browsers if they can get them for free. We have Microsoft to thank for that as usual.
Mozilla rules. I advocate it and use it on all my computers. It is the fastest most feature laden browser going. I also can't stand having the search feature available without keyboard shortcuts. In Mozilla I set the search for Google, then hit Apple L and enter my terms as if they were a url. Instead of hitting return I just hit the down arrow key and then return. Now I am searching at Google with no need to do some mousing around. I can't live without that it is just too convenient.
Now I am searching at Google with no need to do some mousing around. I can't live without that it is just too convenient.
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
Or just hit option-command-F, which takes you right to Safari's Google field.
By the way, Safari uses tab shortcuts that mozilla and opera had long ago.
Maybe I should've explained more.
I realize that Command-T make a new tab, but it's easier (for me) just to mouse over to the little button in Mozilla to create a tab as opposed to taking the keyboard typing route.
I'm using Mozilla as well and I think that it is fine. It certainly is fast and is compliant with just about every site. I would prefer the browser to be Aqua-fied, but I suppose that using Camino would provide that. I have not actually tried Camino yet, however, as it is not yet at 1.0 and I do not consider myself enough of a computer-guy to work with betas. (Idiot question: is Camino, in a sense, an Aqua-fied version of a Mozilla base??)
I did try Safari recently, but it did too many strange things on my machine. I'll try it again after its next release.
(Idiot question: is Camino, in a sense, an Aqua-fied version of a Mozilla base??)
Yes, it is Mozilla's display engine grafted to a native interface. The window toolbars and preferences are native Cocoa goodness. The core display, however, is entirely Mozilla code and still lacks things like full service support. Also, elements like buttons and popup menus within pages still do not draw properly much of the time. It's getting better, though.
Quote:
I did try Safari recently, but it did too many strange things on my machine.
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
awrite i am really loving firebird and thunderbird - especially thunderbird - way better than apple mail. try it for a couple days and you'll see - especially if you have multiple imap accounts. junk trains way faster in thunderbird than with apple mail. mails mime attachements not apple double (win users hate that extra resource fork file). when you send with an account it automatically picks the smtp server you specify in prefs not some random one. searching is better, filtering (rules) are very nice. seems much faster than mail to me. its just a really well thought out program with many excellent features if you take the time to go through all the prefs and settings.
back to firebird - also rock solid with great rendering of web pages. nice bookmark manager akin to safari and again seems faster to me. if you hate brushed metal you will love firebird.
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
I don't have a Mac at hand now, but doesn't Safari support keyboard browsing so that tab jumps to next link? This is what Mozilla and the rest do, and if the feature is in Safari and is enabled, the result is that you'd usually have to tab a long way to get to the location bar, and therefore you're better off with just pressing Apple-L.
I use Mozilla. There's very little it won't do, and AFAIK the only "problem" with the interface is that it doesn't have eye candy...
Okay, I'd like one more feature, and that is: when you spawn a new tab, the new tab should automatically go to your current URL... just like IE does when opening a new window. There's really no advantage to getting an empty tab.
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
Actually, Safari 0.9 was the cause of major weirdness in my mother's iBook. I installed both Safari and Mozilla, and as long as Safari was installed, any attempt to place a Mozilla shortcut in the dock and launch it was met by Safari launching itself instead of Mozilla. Uninstalled Safari, tried to install both in another order, same result. As a programmer (no OS X exp though), I don't understand what the programs and OS could have done that would have caused the system to exhibit this behaviour.
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
Thanks, Brad, for the clarification on the underpinnings of Mozilla.
Re your question, it is not what Safari did "to my machine" but rather "on my machine". I was talking about the behaviour of the browser itself. It seemed to jump around in a weird way when going back and forth between previous pages. Someone else recently complained about this too. Also, I could not get it to actually accept changes in selected fonts or font sizes, meaning my input fonts were always tiny, such as when posting in AI. Not big things, but I could find no way to correct them and annoying enough that I decided to wait for a new release before trying Safari again. I posted about both of these issues on AI previously.
When are the developers going to get it? Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea. Mozilla internally is getting better, really becoming a good product. But the GUI is so bad I only use Mozilla as a backup. If it was as good or even close to Safari I'd switch every now and then because it usually renders better and quicker. It is just so ugly. No matter what the platform. Linuxheads need to "get" the GUI and especially the philosophy of KISS and ease-of-use. The other issue is RAM usage. Mozilla is bloated. They are going to separate the parts soon but this is long overdue.
I use Safari, but I really like Firebird and it's my second favorite browser.
There's supposed to be a special 7.1 bugfix release just for Mac OS X users of Firebird. But the more cautious may want to wait for 8.0 when the Pinstripe theme is set to become the default, as well as having a more Pather friendly look. The designer is also working on a matching theme for Thunderbird.
What is the purpose of Firebird, from Mozilla's developmental perspective? Is it intended to eventually replace the 'base' Mozilla? And how does all of this relate to Camino development? Does Firebird development help fill-in Camino, or is it detracting from Camino development? I am not sure I understand the nature of the multi-pronged Mozilla.org development strategy.
Comments
Originally posted by Cosmo
I wish they would update it more, or has development stopped?
Browse through Pinkerton's old blogs and you may find some tidbits...
Initially, Camino (then Chimera) did release early and often and it garnered a loyal following who couldn't wait to get their hands on the next release. The problem stems from our own success. Camino 0.7 was so stable and polished that people came to treat it as they would a 1.0 product. Releasing another version of lesser quality would be seen as a black-eye to the project as a whole, that quality was slipping, and what once was a promising product was now beginning to collapse under its own weight.
What we haven't done lately is communicate, to be open and slutty with our direction. We haven't done a good job promoting Camino since 0.7 shipped. That's where we can take a cue from the Firebird Browser team. A roadmap is needed, as is a "Why Use Camino Over Safari?" webpage. We need to get people interested again. Will 0.7.5 help that? Maybe it would, but it could be equally as dangerous.
Right now it seems we're stuck in a catch-22: we can't gather developer interest without shipping a version and we can't ship a version without developer interest. We're triaging bugs because being able to point developers to a single list that we can drive to zarro boogs is, in my opinion, the best way to engage the development community, and what this project has been lacking since AOL began to fund its development. Now that AOL has fully withdrawn all support (even for Gecko itself), we need developers more than ever. I understand that the end-users on the various lists don't give a donkey about bug triage, they simply want new bits to play with. I just don't think we can get them bits without focused development.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Jukebox what are you talking about? Mozilla isn't a Java app and Java sucks all around.
Really? Well then I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Why, then, does the Mozilla GUI suck so bad if its not Java? haha..
Don't tell me Java sucks. I have to use Java or .net to be a professional programmer... So you're saying I should switch to .net?
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Now I am searching at Google with no need to do some mousing around. I can't live without that it is just too convenient.
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
By the way, Safari uses tab shortcuts that mozilla and opera had long ago.
Originally posted by der Kopf
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
Or just hit option-command-F, which takes you right to Safari's Google field.
Originally posted by Curufinwe
Control-T or Apple-T Cake
By the way, Safari uses tab shortcuts that mozilla and opera had long ago.
Maybe I should've explained more.
I realize that Command-T make a new tab, but it's easier (for me) just to mouse over to the little button in Mozilla to create a tab as opposed to taking the keyboard typing route.
I did try Safari recently, but it did too many strange things on my machine. I'll try it again after its next release.
Originally posted by Chinney
(Idiot question: is Camino, in a sense, an Aqua-fied version of a Mozilla base??)
Yes, it is Mozilla's display engine grafted to a native interface. The window toolbars and preferences are native Cocoa goodness. The core display, however, is entirely Mozilla code and still lacks things like full service support. Also, elements like buttons and popup menus within pages still do not draw properly much of the time. It's getting better, though.
I did try Safari recently, but it did too many strange things on my machine.
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
back to firebird - also rock solid with great rendering of web pages. nice bookmark manager akin to safari and again seems faster to me. if you hate brushed metal you will love firebird.
Originally posted by der Kopf
Huh? Your directions make me queasy. Searching with Google in Safari is as easy as pressing tab twice, entering a search term and hitting return. I wonder what's incovenient about that.
(things are simpler still when you're in the URL field. then it's just one tab, and if you want a new tab or window, you can do that to: apple+t or apple+n, one tab, search term, enter).
I don't have a Mac at hand now, but doesn't Safari support keyboard browsing so that tab jumps to next link? This is what Mozilla and the rest do, and if the feature is in Safari and is enabled, the result is that you'd usually have to tab a long way to get to the location bar, and therefore you're better off with just pressing Apple-L.
I use Mozilla. There's very little it won't do, and AFAIK the only "problem" with the interface is that it doesn't have eye candy...
Okay, I'd like one more feature, and that is: when you spawn a new tab, the new tab should automatically go to your current URL... just like IE does when opening a new window. There's really no advantage to getting an empty tab.
Originally posted by Brad
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
Actually, Safari 0.9 was the cause of major weirdness in my mother's iBook. I installed both Safari and Mozilla, and as long as Safari was installed, any attempt to place a Mozilla shortcut in the dock and launch it was met by Safari launching itself instead of Mozilla. Uninstalled Safari, tried to install both in another order, same result. As a programmer (no OS X exp though), I don't understand what the programs and OS could have done that would have caused the system to exhibit this behaviour.
Originally posted by Brad
What kind of strange things you experienced? Safari shouldn't be causing problems in any other apps.
Thanks, Brad, for the clarification on the underpinnings of Mozilla.
Re your question, it is not what Safari did "to my machine" but rather "on my machine". I was talking about the behaviour of the browser itself. It seemed to jump around in a weird way when going back and forth between previous pages. Someone else recently complained about this too. Also, I could not get it to actually accept changes in selected fonts or font sizes, meaning my input fonts were always tiny, such as when posting in AI. Not big things, but I could find no way to correct them and annoying enough that I decided to wait for a new release before trying Safari again. I posted about both of these issues on AI previously.
Originally posted by Aquatic
When are the developers going to get it? Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea. Mozilla internally is getting better, really becoming a good product. But the GUI is so bad I only use Mozilla as a backup. If it was as good or even close to Safari I'd switch every now and then because it usually renders better and quicker. It is just so ugly. No matter what the platform. Linuxheads need to "get" the GUI and especially the philosophy of KISS and ease-of-use. The other issue is RAM usage. Mozilla is bloated. They are going to separate the parts soon but this is long overdue.
I use Safari, but I really like Firebird and it's my second favorite browser.