There is nothing wrong with the line, the iMac just needs an update. Slip in a 1.6 GHz G5 on a fast bus with a radion 9600 pro and you will have a decent little computer.
But that just gives Apple an excuse to either maintain the price or actually raise it. I guess if Apple wanted to keep the eMac as it is now - a cheap, basic G4 machine, they could make the iMac into a prosumer powerhouse. But then you'd still have the problem of the iMac being too expensive for most people so sales won't be great, and instead of getting people hooked on kickass iMacs, they'd have to sell them mediocre eMacs.
A better scenario would be to make the eMac either education-only again, or maybe a $599 or $699 model only. Just that - an eMac/Combo for $599 or $699. The iMac would be basically the same but it would drop in price significantly - $799 or $899 for the 15"/Combo, $1099 or $1199 for the 17"/Combo (which should exist!), and $1299 or $1399 for the 17"/Superdrive. Then there should be a lower end G5 tower for $1499 or so. Maybe just keep the 1.6 GHz model around after the next update.
The most expensive any iMac sold for before the flat panels came out was $1499, and there was always a $799 model available. Ever since the flat panels were released, the cheapest you could get an iMac was $1199 and prices have gone as high as $1899. That's not iMac territory at all. Apple tried to compensate, first by keeping the CRT iMac available at $799, and then by releasing the eMac, but I think the fact is they just need to make the iMac cheaper. Even if it was $999/$1299/$1499 that would still be awesome. $100 less would be even better, but I don't know if it's doable. Still, they should try to get at least one iMac under the $1000 barrier, and there should be at least one Mac available for $799 or less (even if it's a lackluster one like the eMac). Eventually they should be able to put a $799 flat panel iMac in the lineup, and eliminate the eMac.
The iMac needs a complete design over haul and a G5 and the eMac needs replacing with a headless Mac.
I hope 2004 brings some more radical on the Mac consumer desktop front...
Apple's got it right with the laptops. And it will only get more right when the G5 hits the Powerbook.
It's a pity the desktop line doesn't have the same clarity.
The best thing about Apple desktops? The dual G5. The rest is pants.
Lemon Bon Bon
Pretty much. I'd say about 2/3rds of the lineup is sorted now. Laptops (50%) and high end towers. The G4 towers would be great, but for 1299 you ought to get a dual and/or superdrive standard. Plenty of PC towers in that price range offer a DVD-/+RW AND a 17" LCD included. Apple is just way too stingy when it comes to spec'ing out a machine. We'll let that ride for now because these are leftover models that Apple is NOT promoting any more.
I disagree about the iMac-headless line-up you propose though. I would say that it's better to make the iMac AFFORDABLE-CHEAP and a bit slower but well spec'd. The AIO is for those who want a disposable computer, give it a disposable price, and then it will be fine. 699-1199. 15" LCD computers can be built for 699 USD, just before I left my university, we filled a lab with 300 of them, nobody's going bankrupt selling affordable LCD computers. I would even go so far as to say tat the iMac is a class of computer that should not cost more than 999, period -- INCLUDING 17" LCD and a SUPERDRIVE! The PC guts are almost there, you need about 1200-1300 to do it today, by this time next year they'll have it covered, where will Apple be?
That leaves the HUGE gaping maw in the price spectrum between 999 and 1999, where most well heeled consumers live. That's where a headless G5 single processor machine should be. Something that completes the smooth gradiation between cute consumer computer and workstation with a rational range of options in the same way that the laptop line takes you from entry level to pro in nice even (Sensible) steps. Find what you need/want and buy it, no obscene upselling (just a little spanning nonsense), otherwise, just a range of nice choices.
That doesn't exist in the mac desktop arena. Time to supply it then:
699-1199, iMacs (LCD 15 and 17) G4 and whatever can replace it cheap.
999-1799, Headless G5, 1 AGP slot, pro level I/O, single CPU (on a daughtercard).
1999-2999 and UP! ALL DUAL G5 towers, with some really heavy duty performance options, perhaps RAID, RAM disks, pro video and capture cards, whatever, ky's the limit both price and performance-wise.
It's that middle tier -- above 1K but not stratospheric which needs/wants the basic expansion/upgradability of a component based machine without the outright power of a workstation. The iMac is fine as a bottom end machine, actually, only in the bottom end will the iMac really find the audience for which it is best suited. The rest of the market needs a cube redux, BADLY.
What? Don't be dense. For the money, the iMac doesn't offer any real substantial performance benefits over Apple's laptops. It's not so much faster that you'll notice, it's not cheaper, it doesn't have the whopping storage that consumer desktops now routinely sport, and it has all of the same expansion limitations that a laptop has. What's the damn point? The arm in the case of the iMac? Or in the case of the eMac, the retina searing CRT?
Now, if as everywhere else in the industry, the consumer desktop at least offered a substantial savings over similarly performing laptops, then, mebbe, there might be a point to what is becoming an increasingly niche concern.
At this rate, the laptop in the new AIO, people are voting with their pockets, even Apple acknowledges that much.
The AIO is dead, long live the AIO!
You are correct, Apples consumer desktops are pathetic. All they have to do is lower the price of the current G4 tower to $899-$999, add the same software bundle found in the ibooks, and watch them fly off the shelves..................
I love my PowerBook 15" Al but honestly the truth is that I don't have a need for portability. Maybe I will value it more once I get to college (senior in high school) but it isn't worth the speed hit for the price. Hell I'm tethered to the wall most of the time anyways.
If someone were to offer me the price I paid for this fabulous white-spot free software loaded...some of it even legal wonder of a machine, I would take it and buy a G5.
I could have bought a Dual G5 for $400 more, and I would have.
As for the iMacs and iBooks...let apple update the iMacs, and it won't be so bad, I still don't think that it is that bad of a situation. Faster bus, faster HD...and bigger, and faster processor. The processor won't show a difference but the rest of them are significant. iMac would blow the iBook away still if it had a better video card.
Matsu you are notorious for your complaining...and well normally I'll agree with you somewhat but it seems you are just pissy when you thought about the iMac specs and we got this thread.
wouldn't it be cool to just have the half domed shape on your desk? and then attach a monitor... now that would be awesome! hehe. I like the imacs way more than the ibooks. I used to have to fix those damned ibooks their first rev (white) and then all the tiolet seat covers, that and the slot loaders way back some time ago. So I have a opinion on them thats for sure. I think the imac is a better bargain.
Comments
The iMac needs a complete design over haul and a G5 and the eMac needs replacing with a headless Mac.
I hope 2004 brings some more radical on the Mac consumer desktop front...
Apple's got it right with the laptops. And it will only get more right when the G5 hits the Powerbook.
It's a pity the desktop line doesn't have the same clarity.
The best thing about Apple desktops? The dual G5. The rest is pants.
Lemon Bon Bon
A better scenario would be to make the eMac either education-only again, or maybe a $599 or $699 model only. Just that - an eMac/Combo for $599 or $699. The iMac would be basically the same but it would drop in price significantly - $799 or $899 for the 15"/Combo, $1099 or $1199 for the 17"/Combo (which should exist!), and $1299 or $1399 for the 17"/Superdrive. Then there should be a lower end G5 tower for $1499 or so. Maybe just keep the 1.6 GHz model around after the next update.
The most expensive any iMac sold for before the flat panels came out was $1499, and there was always a $799 model available. Ever since the flat panels were released, the cheapest you could get an iMac was $1199 and prices have gone as high as $1899. That's not iMac territory at all. Apple tried to compensate, first by keeping the CRT iMac available at $799, and then by releasing the eMac, but I think the fact is they just need to make the iMac cheaper. Even if it was $999/$1299/$1499 that would still be awesome. $100 less would be even better, but I don't know if it's doable. Still, they should try to get at least one iMac under the $1000 barrier, and there should be at least one Mac available for $799 or less (even if it's a lackluster one like the eMac). Eventually they should be able to put a $799 flat panel iMac in the lineup, and eliminate the eMac.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Nah, Matsu is on the money.
The iMac needs a complete design over haul and a G5 and the eMac needs replacing with a headless Mac.
I hope 2004 brings some more radical on the Mac consumer desktop front...
Apple's got it right with the laptops. And it will only get more right when the G5 hits the Powerbook.
It's a pity the desktop line doesn't have the same clarity.
The best thing about Apple desktops? The dual G5. The rest is pants.
Lemon Bon Bon
Pretty much. I'd say about 2/3rds of the lineup is sorted now. Laptops (50%) and high end towers. The G4 towers would be great, but for 1299 you ought to get a dual and/or superdrive standard. Plenty of PC towers in that price range offer a DVD-/+RW AND a 17" LCD included. Apple is just way too stingy when it comes to spec'ing out a machine. We'll let that ride for now because these are leftover models that Apple is NOT promoting any more.
I disagree about the iMac-headless line-up you propose though. I would say that it's better to make the iMac AFFORDABLE-CHEAP and a bit slower but well spec'd. The AIO is for those who want a disposable computer, give it a disposable price, and then it will be fine. 699-1199. 15" LCD computers can be built for 699 USD, just before I left my university, we filled a lab with 300 of them, nobody's going bankrupt selling affordable LCD computers. I would even go so far as to say tat the iMac is a class of computer that should not cost more than 999, period -- INCLUDING 17" LCD and a SUPERDRIVE! The PC guts are almost there, you need about 1200-1300 to do it today, by this time next year they'll have it covered, where will Apple be?
That leaves the HUGE gaping maw in the price spectrum between 999 and 1999, where most well heeled consumers live. That's where a headless G5 single processor machine should be. Something that completes the smooth gradiation between cute consumer computer and workstation with a rational range of options in the same way that the laptop line takes you from entry level to pro in nice even (Sensible) steps. Find what you need/want and buy it, no obscene upselling (just a little spanning nonsense), otherwise, just a range of nice choices.
That doesn't exist in the mac desktop arena. Time to supply it then:
699-1199, iMacs (LCD 15 and 17) G4 and whatever can replace it cheap.
999-1799, Headless G5, 1 AGP slot, pro level I/O, single CPU (on a daughtercard).
1999-2999 and UP! ALL DUAL G5 towers, with some really heavy duty performance options, perhaps RAID, RAM disks, pro video and capture cards, whatever, ky's the limit both price and performance-wise.
It's that middle tier -- above 1K but not stratospheric which needs/wants the basic expansion/upgradability of a component based machine without the outright power of a workstation. The iMac is fine as a bottom end machine, actually, only in the bottom end will the iMac really find the audience for which it is best suited. The rest of the market needs a cube redux, BADLY.
Originally posted by Matsu
What? Don't be dense. For the money, the iMac doesn't offer any real substantial performance benefits over Apple's laptops. It's not so much faster that you'll notice, it's not cheaper, it doesn't have the whopping storage that consumer desktops now routinely sport, and it has all of the same expansion limitations that a laptop has. What's the damn point? The arm in the case of the iMac? Or in the case of the eMac, the retina searing CRT?
Now, if as everywhere else in the industry, the consumer desktop at least offered a substantial savings over similarly performing laptops, then, mebbe, there might be a point to what is becoming an increasingly niche concern.
At this rate, the laptop in the new AIO, people are voting with their pockets, even Apple acknowledges that much.
The AIO is dead, long live the AIO!
You are correct, Apples consumer desktops are pathetic. All they have to do is lower the price of the current G4 tower to $899-$999, add the same software bundle found in the ibooks, and watch them fly off the shelves..................
.......................
I love my PowerBook 15" Al but honestly the truth is that I don't have a need for portability. Maybe I will value it more once I get to college (senior in high school) but it isn't worth the speed hit for the price. Hell I'm tethered to the wall most of the time anyways.
If someone were to offer me the price I paid for this fabulous white-spot free software loaded...some of it even legal wonder of a machine, I would take it and buy a G5.
I could have bought a Dual G5 for $400 more, and I would have.
As for the iMacs and iBooks...let apple update the iMacs, and it won't be so bad, I still don't think that it is that bad of a situation. Faster bus, faster HD...and bigger, and faster processor. The processor won't show a difference but the rest of them are significant. iMac would blow the iBook away still if it had a better video card.
Matsu you are notorious for your complaining...and well normally I'll agree with you somewhat but it seems you are just pissy when you thought about the iMac specs and we got this thread.
...but I still like you