Isn't racism supposed to have intent?
Full Monty
You know what I'm saying..
I was reading both of these stories and they both strike me as lose/lose propositions.
The first involves my alma mater. One of the fraternities was having pledge auction. To advertise it the pledges created three different fliers featuring characters from the Full Monty. One of the characters happened to be black and folks were upset because they were advertising an auction that involved a naked black man. (Memories of slave trading I suppose)
The two other characters were white and of course there was no outrage about the flyers featuring them.
However I have been told multiple times that racism is really about belief and the intent of the person doing it. Especially since it is hard to completely rationalize every means of being racist. (For example not picking up certain fares at certain hours)
Likewise in the second example it also seems to be a lose/lose proposition. I'm sure that if they were correcting the English of black witnesses it would be seen as racist as well. There is a hinting tone of disapproval in the story that implies that the transcriptionists occasionally misattribute slang as well.
Do you think the intent of either of these incidents is racist? How so? Likewise if you consider them racist what is a proper resolution. If you don't consider them racist, then do you think they should be left as they are, or should different actions be considered for the future?
Nick
You know what I'm saying..
I was reading both of these stories and they both strike me as lose/lose propositions.
The first involves my alma mater. One of the fraternities was having pledge auction. To advertise it the pledges created three different fliers featuring characters from the Full Monty. One of the characters happened to be black and folks were upset because they were advertising an auction that involved a naked black man. (Memories of slave trading I suppose)
The two other characters were white and of course there was no outrage about the flyers featuring them.
However I have been told multiple times that racism is really about belief and the intent of the person doing it. Especially since it is hard to completely rationalize every means of being racist. (For example not picking up certain fares at certain hours)
Likewise in the second example it also seems to be a lose/lose proposition. I'm sure that if they were correcting the English of black witnesses it would be seen as racist as well. There is a hinting tone of disapproval in the story that implies that the transcriptionists occasionally misattribute slang as well.
Do you think the intent of either of these incidents is racist? How so? Likewise if you consider them racist what is a proper resolution. If you don't consider them racist, then do you think they should be left as they are, or should different actions be considered for the future?
Nick
Comments
That said, the picture shown in your link was really designed in a pretty stupid manner. There's nothing there to me that says "oh ha ha, this is a joke -- from that Full Monty movie, remember". It doesn't look like it's supposed to be humorous, unless that's just a crappy web rendition that looks nothing like the original poster in question.
Then again this is a fraternity we're talking about, so by definition stupid is their middle name. My verdict, take all the posters down and make a new one with all three naked embarrassed guys on the same background. That way no one can say it's "straight up racist". Especially if there's more whitey-skin to be seen than any other color.
But, Racism itself is NoT a matter of intent, meaning that many people may be racist or have racist attitudes and not know that their attitudes are racist . . . granted that it would probably be more apropriate, in such cases, to call these people ignorant rather than racist based on their lack of intent
However, to do so is to take the urgency out of the notion that what they think is harmfull and should be at leawst critiqued, reviewed and re-thought if not outright changed . . .
Originally posted by trumptman
The two other characters were white and of course there was no outrage about the flyers featuring them.
You sound as if there should have been outrage- as if whites were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country too. The lack of context to suggest what the picture means naturally opens itself to wider interpretation. I'm sorry, it just looks too much like a slave-auction poster by itself. Granted, it was not the intention to do so. But we should all be more sensitive to our history. That's all.
Originally posted by trumptman
Do you think the intent of either of these incidents is racist? How so? Likewise if you consider them racist what is a proper resolution. If you don't consider them racist, then do you think they should be left as they are, or should different actions be considered for the future?
Nick [/B]
As long as the poh-lice accurately tran-scribe da idiosyncrasies of everyone's speech, I don't have no problem wit it.
Originally posted by Moogs
On the one hand, you should expect this on any diverse campus. College students like to get their undies in a bunch over nothing and protest. It's what they do. Freed from their parents' nest, it's the first time in their lives they can stand out as individuals and really make themselves heard. So they do, for whatever their "cause" is, every chance they get.
How true,,, how true. I have always known this and finally someone else makes it said public.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Moogs
On the one hand, you should expect this on any diverse campus. College students like to get their undies in a bunch over nothing and protest. It's what they do. Freed from their parents' nest, it's the first time in their lives they can stand out as individuals and really make themselves heard. So they do, for whatever their "cause" is, every chance they get.
You know, that's very true in a sense. From a college student's perspective, I don't see the point in ridiculing the way college students think about problems in new and different ways (to them). It's all part of growing intellectually and cognitively. The way we respond to things now- the way we interact with new people and diverse ideas now- the problems we face now- they all have significance in the long run.
Maybe you can't expect this from relatively homogenous campuses like mine because we all think relatively alike. Now how is that good- beyond not getting ridiculed by the older establishment? On a college campus, uproar over an issue like the first article is good because it gets students to think about problems.
I don't see any reason to transcribe "aks". It's a police report, not a ****ing English class.
Fraternities? Whats the deal with that? Will someone please explain them to me? I only know what I heave learned through college movies that are supposed to take place in the 50s
You pay money to live with other upper-middle-class white kids where you make friends to make sure that upper-middle-class white jobs stay with upper-middle-class whites.
Originally posted by groverat
Fraternities are organizations that have long outlived their usefulness.
You pay money to live with other upper-middle-class white kids where you make friends to make sure that upper-middle-class white jobs stay with upper-middle-class whites.
There's no bla... I mean african american fraternities
Originally posted by Scott
There's no bla... I mean african american fraternities
There are planty of them. Every group is represented by a Fraternity and Sorority (at least one, though I'm sure there are several for each).
And please... all this talk of how fraternities keep the poor man down is a load of crap. While they are no longer the societies they once were they are nice little social clubs. As a member of one let me tell you that I'd have to agree that they have, for the most part, outlived their usefulness in most regards...
I never said they were conscious efforts to "keep the poor man down" but I've seen dozens of morons gets good jobs for no other reason than being someone's son's "brother".
Scott, never said there weren't, but that is a tiny minority (excuse the pun).
Originally posted by jwri004
I used to work in a liqour store that had a large Jewish clientele. We used to run an ad-hoc light hearted daily competition to see how many times we would get asked, "Where are your kosher wines?", because they were located in another section of the store. Every staff member tended to be asked about 5 times a day, so one individual had the bright idea to put a piece of coloured tape on the floor to mark the way. So when people asked it was, "Follow the line to the Kosher wine". Did not go down well with the Jewish community, due to the similarites with the Nazi death camps!!!
This strikes me as more what happened at CSULB. It is ignorance. Being ignorant about how someone would understand something is not the same as stereotyping them or creating hateful portraits of them.
Nick
Originally posted by EMGeneratr
There are planty of them. Every group is represented by a Fraternity and Sorority (at least one, though I'm sure there are several for each).
And please... all this talk of how fraternities keep the poor man down is a load of crap. While they are no longer the societies they once were they are nice little social clubs. As a member of one let me tell you that I'd have to agree that they have, for the most part, outlived their usefulness in most regards...
You do know that there are lots of professional and interest oriented fraternities as well don't you? I for example belonged to Phi Mu Alpha, a music service organization. We weren't a social fraternity.
That being said I don't think there is anything wrong even with social fraternities. The reason they likely are considered havens for the rich is because they have monthly dues. I did visit some during a rush week but they weren't my style.
Nick
Originally posted by groverat
So am I wrong about them being groups of paid-for-friends that help each other (often through their daddies who were members of the same fraternity) get jobs after college?
I never said they were conscious efforts to "keep the poor man down" but I've seen dozens of morons gets good jobs for no other reason than being someone's son's "brother".
Scott, never said there weren't, but that is a tiny minority (excuse the pun).
I love you. You pay people to be your friends and then you have a sorority/fraternity.
It tags blacks as dumb, Ford explained. That dumbness presumes an inability to communicate well. That lack of good communication lets folks blow off your complaints, "because you don't even understand English."
Well then learn to enunciate correctly and this won't happen. Put a book in the hands of these people. Oops forgot..books are like kryptonite to some Blacks :P.
NAACP stop trying to turn the ignorant into martyrs. Idiots.
Originally posted by hmurchison
...
..books are like kryptonite to some Blacks :P.
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Unless you're black that's a racist statement.
Originally posted by midwinter
This happened during my last year in Oklahoma.
Nick