Would I still be able to run OS X? Do the ports also allow you to run Linux?
I think you misunderstand the division between the operating system and the window manager. Here's a *very* brief run-down.
The window manager is the part of an operating system, often "just another app", that listens for system calls for the mouse (moves, clicks) and does all the work in drawing windows, buttons, and any other major on-screen GUI elements. Sawfish, AfterStep, and IceWM are examples of window managers in the *nix world. The window manager for Mac OS X is colloquially referred to at Aqua.
The operating system is at a much lower level than the window manager. The OS is the "parent" to every single process on the computer, including the window manager. Typically, applications built on one operating system will not run on another operating system without being recompiled from the original source code. Examples here are what you're probably familiar with such as Mac OS X, Win32, Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris.
As chych said, you normally can't run one operating system on top of another. In most cases, this would require the use of an emulator such as VirtualPC that would keep the other operating system self-contained in a special environment.
However, here's what you *can* do natively on Mac OS X. You can use X11 or XDarwin to run recompiled *nix binaries in a recompiled *nix window manager. These will run side-by-side with Aqua and other Mac OS X apps, but they will look different and may behave differently (because different window managers have different rules as to how they respond to the user).
Fink is a project that takes the source code of various linux apps and recompiles them and installs all necessary libraries you them to work for Mac OS X. That saves the end-user the trouble of finding the right libraries, fixing any bugs in them, recompiling them, and then trying to fix bugs and recompile the apps themselves.
ALternatively, if you want to abandon Mac OS X apps altogether, yes, you can run Linux *itself* on your Mac hardware. This would require some major rearranging of your filesystem, though, and would mean that you couldn't run Mac OS X apps, thereby negating the whole purpose of buying a Mac.
Would you care to show us a screenshot of your computer while under fink. It would be really cool to see what it looks like.
Again, I think you're confusing the terminology here.
Fink isn't a window manager; it isn't an operating system. It's an installer that links to an online catalog of software that has been fixed and recompiled by people who contribute to the fink project.
: Fink wants to bring more Unix software to Mac OS X, which results in two main goals:
Goal number one is porting software to Mac OS X. That means we take commodity Open Source Unix software and fix whatever is necessary so that it will compile and run on Mac OS X. Sometimes that's easy, but it can also be very hard or even impossible for some packages. We're trying to provide tools and documentation to make this easier.
Goal number two is making the results available to casual users. For this, we build a distribution using package management tools ported over from Linux, namely dpkg and apt-get, written by and for the Debian GNU/Linux project. The binary distribution uses the .deb package format. For building packages from source, we have our own tool, named fink, which creates those .deb package files.
That leaves virtual desktops, which IMHO are a sore spot. Apple's really sleeping on that one. They rule, period. It's like tabbed browsing: once you have it, you wonder how you ever lived without it (you mac users can't appreciate Virtual desktops 'cause you've never used 'em). Exposé is a poor substitute for the clarity and order of virtual desktops.
No kidding. I've been using desktop manager ( http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net ) and expose really is no match at all. Multiple desktops are extremely useful for a variety of reasons. Expose is cool, but it is hardly an alternative. The two aren't really comparable. They do different things. Working with different workspaces is very clean, whereas having a ton of windows open on one desktop can get confusing quickly, with or without expose.
this always bugs me: Linux is NOT an operating system. Linux is a kernel. It is the base and perhaps the most important piece of an operating system, but not nearly an entire, fully functional system. What is most often referred to as "Linux" is actually the Linux kernel, with a myriad of programs contributed by many people. A large percent of those programs which make up the OS are from the GNU project; So a more fair term for the OS is "GNU/Linux." learn more
what 10splayer is referring to are programs that seem to be x11 specific, not gnu/linux specifc. x11 is a windowing system that works on all Unices, Unix-like systems, */GNU/Linux distros, *BSDs, other posix systems, and even "Windows" (and probably a few other systems too). I'm not running osx right now, so i can't throw u a screen shot of a mixed aqua/x11 environment, but hopefully someone else can. i know, with some versions of x11 (and apple isn't the only one who makes it), you can have a 'rootless' x11. that tries to integrate the two windowing environments simultaneously; so an x11-app's window would be right next to an aqua window (often making the x11 apps hideous in comparison to the aqua apps). you can also do a full screen x11 (instead of rootless), so you could build a desktop to look absolutely identical to your "linux" environment, multiple desktops and all.
Comments
Originally posted by 10splayer
Would I still be able to run OS X? Do the ports also allow you to run Linux?
I think you misunderstand the division between the operating system and the window manager. Here's a *very* brief run-down.
The window manager is the part of an operating system, often "just another app", that listens for system calls for the mouse (moves, clicks) and does all the work in drawing windows, buttons, and any other major on-screen GUI elements. Sawfish, AfterStep, and IceWM are examples of window managers in the *nix world. The window manager for Mac OS X is colloquially referred to at Aqua.
The operating system is at a much lower level than the window manager. The OS is the "parent" to every single process on the computer, including the window manager. Typically, applications built on one operating system will not run on another operating system without being recompiled from the original source code. Examples here are what you're probably familiar with such as Mac OS X, Win32, Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris.
As chych said, you normally can't run one operating system on top of another. In most cases, this would require the use of an emulator such as VirtualPC that would keep the other operating system self-contained in a special environment.
However, here's what you *can* do natively on Mac OS X. You can use X11 or XDarwin to run recompiled *nix binaries in a recompiled *nix window manager. These will run side-by-side with Aqua and other Mac OS X apps, but they will look different and may behave differently (because different window managers have different rules as to how they respond to the user).
Fink is a project that takes the source code of various linux apps and recompiles them and installs all necessary libraries you them to work for Mac OS X. That saves the end-user the trouble of finding the right libraries, fixing any bugs in them, recompiling them, and then trying to fix bugs and recompile the apps themselves.
ALternatively, if you want to abandon Mac OS X apps altogether, yes, you can run Linux *itself* on your Mac hardware. This would require some major rearranging of your filesystem, though, and would mean that you couldn't run Mac OS X apps, thereby negating the whole purpose of buying a Mac.
Would you care to show us a screenshot of your computer while under fink. It would be really cool to see what it looks like.
Thank You.
Originally posted by 10splayer
Would you care to show us a screenshot of your computer while under fink. It would be really cool to see what it looks like.
Again, I think you're confusing the terminology here.
Fink isn't a window manager; it isn't an operating system. It's an installer that links to an online catalog of software that has been fixed and recompiled by people who contribute to the fink project.
Please read about fink here:
http://fink.sourceforge.net/
From the FAQ, What is Fink?
http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/general.php#what
: Fink wants to bring more Unix software to Mac OS X, which results in two main goals:
Goal number one is porting software to Mac OS X. That means we take commodity Open Source Unix software and fix whatever is necessary so that it will compile and run on Mac OS X. Sometimes that's easy, but it can also be very hard or even impossible for some packages. We're trying to provide tools and documentation to make this easier.
Goal number two is making the results available to casual users. For this, we build a distribution using package management tools ported over from Linux, namely dpkg and apt-get, written by and for the Debian GNU/Linux project. The binary distribution uses the .deb package format. For building packages from source, we have our own tool, named fink, which creates those .deb package files.
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
That leaves virtual desktops, which IMHO are a sore spot. Apple's really sleeping on that one. They rule, period. It's like tabbed browsing: once you have it, you wonder how you ever lived without it (you mac users can't appreciate Virtual desktops 'cause you've never used 'em). Exposé is a poor substitute for the clarity and order of virtual desktops.
No kidding. I've been using desktop manager ( http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net ) and expose really is no match at all. Multiple desktops are extremely useful for a variety of reasons. Expose is cool, but it is hardly an alternative. The two aren't really comparable. They do different things. Working with different workspaces is very clean, whereas having a ton of windows open on one desktop can get confusing quickly, with or without expose.
what 10splayer is referring to are programs that seem to be x11 specific, not gnu/linux specifc. x11 is a windowing system that works on all Unices, Unix-like systems, */GNU/Linux distros, *BSDs, other posix systems, and even "Windows" (and probably a few other systems too). I'm not running osx right now, so i can't throw u a screen shot of a mixed aqua/x11 environment, but hopefully someone else can. i know, with some versions of x11 (and apple isn't the only one who makes it), you can have a 'rootless' x11. that tries to integrate the two windowing environments simultaneously; so an x11-app's window would be right next to an aqua window (often making the x11 apps hideous in comparison to the aqua apps). you can also do a full screen x11 (instead of rootless), so you could build a desktop to look absolutely identical to your "linux" environment, multiple desktops and all.
Originally posted by JLL
I think Apple is working on some kind of virtual desktop functionality in Exposé.
One of the hidden features minimizes the desktop into a little window and you now have a blank desktop.
They just need to kill the bugs and make it possible to minimize more than one desktop at a time and you'll have a great virtual desktop feature.
Intriguing...
I wonder if this feature - if it survives development - will play into user switching as well.
(you mac users can't appreciate Virtual desktops 'cause you've never used 'em)
heh... well, I was using
Virtual Desktop on my Macs back in 1996.
Don't teach your gramma to suck eggs, sonny.