Considering that's her profession, why should that be astonishing?
Now you're just playing dumb.
The girl wrote a geekly little melody on her laptop and made an actual music box out of it, then put it on a major a major label pop album as a track. Whether you like her or not, that's fvcking geeky and pretty damn cool.
The girl wrote a geekly little melody on her laptop and made an actual music box out of it, then put it on a major a major label pop album as a track. Whether you like her or not, that's fvcking geeky and pretty damn cool.
Like I said, your geek-scale is a bit more relaxed than mine.
Say, if a forumgoer made so-and-so comments about how she screwed up so-and-so stanzas of the song, and she responded and got into a flamewar with him...that would be tres geeky.
You'd be surprised at how many apparent thugs have furniture made out of gear and computers and spend all their time in front of electronics
Okay, you have a totally different geek-scale than I do.
So someone who puts their tv on a stack of computers, sits in front of electronics (and those electronics are their prized possessions) day in and day out aren't geeks just because you can't see past their exterior?
Well, maybe we do have a different conception of geek, since to me that person is a lot geekier than a rich suburban kid who never had to really think about it too much. Somehow, though, I get the impression you just want to argue at this point.
I don't know how old you are Giant but I was living in the center of downtown San Francisco when Hip-Hop was just getting started . . . in the Eighties and early nineties
Hip-hop is associated with tough guys, gangsters-(not so much anymore) and sex . . . none of those are qualities associated with geekiness
Early electronic music, such as Tangerine-Dream and the Soft-Machine are just as responcible for influencing those musicians as Hip-Hop when considering the electronic aspect.
Those bands were definitely geeky
Bjork is NOT hip=hop, and she is also not a geek though she does have many geeky qualities . . . she is a perfect example of what has influenced the new trend of militant-geekdom: she has tatoos but she is not above talking like a little girl (as seen on an 'Art' video she was cameod on)
which brings me to the single biggest influence on the 'new-Geeekiness" as coolness factor:
ART SCHOOL!!!!
The "new-Geekiness" is a product of teh popularity of Art School . . . and I know, because I have been teaching at art schools for the past seven years . .
emo, intelligence, SENSITIVITY to a FAULT, an iPod and a familiarity with computers in general and Apple computers in particular . . . .
Hip Hop?!? I think you must be talking about something besides Geekiness . . .
I don't know how old you are Giant but I was living in the center of downtown San Francisco when Hip-Hop was just getting started . . . in the Eighties and early nineties
Hip-hop is associated with tough guys, gangsters-(not so much anymore) and sex . . . none of those are qualities associated with geekiness
Like I said, go get Wild Style. Apparently you get a wrong impression from the outside. Of course, California has a habit of bastardizing things created elsewhere, so it's no wonder you have a skewed view.
Oh, and hip hop was going strong long before the late eighties. Hell, by that point it had become a pop music staple. And, yes, I was old enough to take part in it.
Quote:
Early electronic music, such as Tangerine-Dream and the Soft-Machine are just as responcible for influencing those musicians as Hip-Hop when considering the electronic aspect.
Those bands were definitely geeky
Most people also attribute the rise of electronic music in america to a group of black men in the detroit ghettos. In fact, detroit techno is actually just as much black music as hip hop. And yes, those detroit musicians are very much geeks
Quote:
Bjork is NOT hip=hop
Really? Thanks for letting me know. What about radiohead? Are they considered hip hop?
Quote:
and she is also not a geek though she does have many geeky qualities
So, what's your criteria?
Quote:
Hip Hop?!? I think you must be talking about something besides Geekiness . . .
Read these letters . . . real geekiness is still not cool . . .
Hey this is a pretty interesting run down from one of those letters:
Quote:
Nerds are defined by what they know. We tend to stick to societally acceptable topics, but dive in much deeper or cover a wider variety of subjects than most. We are the grad students of the world, the academics, researchers and general know-it-alls.
Dorks are defined by what they like. Similar to the nerd, we dive in much deeper than the average person, but the topics we pursue tend to be much more nontraditional. We learn to speak Klingon or Elvish or know the plot lines, writers, and artists of all the major comic books and most of the minor ones.
Geeks are defined by what they can do. We may not know as much as the nerd on any given topic, but we can do more with what we know. We can hook up a home theater, fix a computer, or super-charge a lawnmower. We are the tinkerers, programmers, and garage inventors.
I have to agree with Eugene. Geeks aren't technological pedestrians like Bjork. Geeks tend to be the ones creating the technology (or at least hyping the crap out of it), and then retreating into the geek subculture afterwards. This includes but is not limited to:
and SF is not far from Oakland and yes I knew people in Oakland making Hip Hop, they sometimes practiced in my living room . . . if you are 'outside' don't assume that every one that you talk to here is or has always been . . . I was not a Hip Hop fan and and I wasn't hanging too much with these people but my roommate at the time was
and yes I was aware of the Detroit musicians and particularly the main guy which you are talking about, and yes, the main figure displays Geeky qualities . . . he was a real predecessor of electronic music and of rap and Hip Hop . . . but when it became Hip Hop it transformed into tough street-smart attitude music . . . but the music he made was more like dance and trance music not the street smart toughness of hip hop
and if you haven't noticed, toughness and street smarts are antithetical to the qualities that are associated with being a geek
being a Geek: timidity, sensitivity, social skills sacrificed to the higher importance of mastering the schematics of a home-made motherboard or to a particularly dramatic Troll-trap in a dark Dungeon in Dungeons and Dragons . . .in other words no social savviness AT ALL!
Usually thin, often unwashed
Geekness has always been NOT COOL . . . street smarts have always been 'cool' and always will be 'cool'
. . . a 'geek' was an outcast
Now the LOOK of a Geek is cool . . . but real Geeks will always be outcasts with certain age groups . . .
Electronic music may be made with computers by people who spend all day making their music . . . but that doesn't mean anything . . . anybody who is good at something spends a lot of time doing that thing . . . electronic musicians USE computers . . . that does not make electronic musicians 'Geeks'
Computers are just the new tools . . .
Hip hop has influenced almost every aspect of American cultural life . . but the aspect that make it seperate from electronic music in general are rhythm, attitude, street-smarts and those attitudes are, by definition, impossible for a geek to acquire whle still keeping his/her geek status
. . . as far as "Wild Style" . . .its about "outlaw" graffitti artists:
Quote:
Wild Style follows the outlaw artists through the train yards to the rap/breakdance clubs.The movie climaxes at a massive outdoor jam, definitely the most famous hip hop party in history!
Hard to roll that twenty sided dice and kill the onrushing Orcs while running from the cops and partying all night
. . . like I was saying . . . antithetical to real Geekness . . .
Well, maybe we do have a different conception of geek, since to me that person is a lot geekier than a rich suburban kid who never had to really think about it too much. Somehow, though, I get the impression you just want to argue at this point.
I'm flattered you think Björk and gangsta thugs are geekier than I am. That made my day. I'm going to go attempt to hit on somebody now.
Real hip hop happened in cyphers, huddled behind buildings, in most cases outside. California hip hop is a different world, and it was well into the 90s before people outside of the state started taking it seriously. Hell, it wasn't until a few years ago, well after I had stopped doing it myself, that I could even bear california graffiti.
Quote:
and yes I was aware of the Detroit musicians and particularly the main guy which you are talking about, and yes, the main figure displays Geeky qualities
Who is the 'main guy?' It was a community, and I spent a few years in detroit in the mid nineties and spent time with most of them.
Quote:
. . . he was a real predecessor of electronic music and of rap and Hip Hop . . . but when it became Hip Hop it transformed into tough street-smart attitude music . . . but the music he made was more like dance and trance music not the street smart toughness of hip hop
Hip hop came about very organically, and it's clearly wrong to say that hip hop came from detroit techno. There were a lot of influences. Perhaps the primary reason for hip hop going so electronic is because electronics provided a economical solution.
Quote:
and if you haven't noticed, toughness and street smarts are antithetical to the qualities that are associated with being a geek
Certainly not outside of urban areas. But sometimes it's necessary.
Quote:
being a Geek: timidity, sensitivity, social skills sacrificed to the higher importance of mastering the schematics of a home-made motherboard or to a particularly dramatic Troll-trap in a dark Dungeon in Dungeons and Dragons . . .in other words no social savviness AT ALL!
Usually thin, often unwashed
Geekness has always been NOT COOL . . . street smarts have always been 'cool' and always will be 'cool'
Not true. Street smarts are often necessary. It's only cool to outsiders who never lived liked that.
D&D was dorky, not geeky. And, yes, I played it. And yes, I know quite a few thugs that played it. It was actually a big thing in parts of the hip hop community. Ah, the things we learn that shatter our stereotypes.
Quote:
. . . a 'geek' was an outcast
Part of the reason hip hop works for urban america is that it works to protect the young urban geek. If you can be an entertainer, people like you.
Quote:
Now the LOOK of a Geek is cool . . . but real Geeks will always be outcasts with certain age groups . . .
What LOOK is that? White?
Quote:
Electronic music may be made with computers by people who spend all day making their music . . . but that doesn't mean anything . . . anybody who is good at something spends a lot of time doing that thing . . . electronic musicians USE computers . . . that does not make electronic musicians 'Geeks'
Computers are just the new tools . . .
Actually, in hip hop computers are shunned as not geeky enough. Do some research on what folks use.
Quote:
but the aspect that make it seperate from electronic music in general are rhythm, attitude, street-smarts and those attitudes are, by definition, impossible for a geek to acquire whle still keeping his/her geek status
Techno always was VERY street smart, from Detroit to NY to England to Germany. And electronic music in general? Glitch was always a subset. Hell, even FSOL was beat heavy.
Quote:
. . . as far as "Wild Style" . . .its about "outlaw" graffitti artists:Hard to roll that twenty sided dice and kill the onrushing Orcs while running from the cops and partying all night
. . . like I was saying . . . antithetical to real Geekness . . .
Like I said, watch the film. Most of the people in the film are THE originators of hip hop (rapping, Djing, graffiti) and as you would see in the film, they are just a bunch of ugly geeks shunned by the world around them. In fact, the scene where 'Zoro' and the woman reporter almost get robbed shows CLEARLY how hip hop was often very effective in providing defense in the ghetto. And the reporter demonstrates how popular media fell in love with this totally independent geek culture. Graffiti was so indie that it was by nature independent of law, the most basic cultural control. Hell, if you bought your paint you were shunned as not being geeky enough.
Hell, the fact that your knowledge of this film comes from a silly little discription like the one you quoted shows you really are forming opinions about something you know nothing about. I respect you and expect better from you.
And as I pointed out before, D&D was a big thing in parts of the hip hop community.
I just have to add that in every community I was in, there was no practicing, there was only doing. I never heard of anyone practicing. The closest thing to practice would be a graffiti artist's scratch book, or maybe a rapper writing in his rhyme book on the bus. Actually I guess DJs would practice, but this is a solitary thing. In hip hop, you aren't really practicing when you are in a room with someone else.
I saw the guy in Detroit interviewed . . . I can't remember his name but he is creditted with pretty much starting techno . . . he was geeky in that he seemed to lack social skills and was articulate
the 'look' of classic geekness is as I described it: thin unwashed cardigan wearing, most often white yes . . . but not always
You may have been doing hip hop . . but if it was the same thing that was sweeping the country in the eighties and was called 'hip hop' then it was street smart and "cool" and that is why it swept the nation.
When I mention street smarts what I am talking about is the attitude that was part and parcel of the Hip Hop . . . It became a gimmick when it became mainstream 'gansta rap' the attitude is what defined the word 'cool' . . to be cool was to be savvy and reserved in a tough environment out of familiarity with the ins-and-outs of that environment
If you don't know what 'cool' means then maybe you really ARE a Geek!?!?
anyway, 'cooleness' thus defined has always been, by definition, what a Geek CANNOT have.
once a Geek gets cool he is no longer a geek!!
.
Todays electronic music in large part has computer music as a main component . . . the people that you yourself mentioned 'radiohead et al' use computers in their music . . . I know that techno and such didn't use computers . . . but since we seemed to be saying that spending all day in front of one then that's what I was going with as a sign of geekness
what do you mean when you say " not true streets smarts are often necessary"?
necessary? for what? to be a geek or just to survive?
and I don't mean the actual smarts I mean the appearance of having the smarts: the look of being 'cool'
oh, and as far as practicing . . . these guys listened to NWA and some more obscure acts that I don't know about but they wanted to play electric guitar and drums and sound like rap/metal/hip hop . . . who am I to argue with them?
i guess you were 'down' with the center of the 'scene' AND you were stealing your paints and getting together in your glyphs and breakdancing before everybody else
but then since you were out their doing it with others and setting a scene then you were not being a real geek
The guys playing in my living room were pretty much no-talents and, therefor, I guess, they were not cool and thus pretty much just geeks
not like you who were cool and part of the real authentic origins of Hip Hop happening
. . . but you know what . . I think that you just don't understand what people mean by Geek or the look of geekness
Im sure that much of the phenomena that you describe had alot of very smart people who were so articulate that they couldn't talk to people . .. and they probably were pretty much geeks
but Hip Hop still was not a geek product . . . it formed communities and was 'cool' . ..it not only had an edge it defined the cutting edge for years
Something that is cutting edge by definition again is not geeky
in fact a good way to define geeky is to say it is whatever is not-cool at any given moment.
so the LOOK of geekness that is cool right now is not at all really geeky because its cool
How can you honestly say these guys are Geeks??!?! They are dripping with coolness . . . they are virtually BADass!!
and badassness is NOT geeky
I mean . . . come on!!
& besides the whole musicians are geeks thing is pretty much wrong too . . .. as by virtue of what they have chosen to focus on they have proven that they are cool and not geeky . . . unless they want just to cover Tiny Tim . . . a REAL geek
I saw the guy in Detroit interviewed . . . I can't remember his name but he is creditted with pretty much starting techno . . . he was geeky in that he seemed to lack social skills and was articulate
How would you feel if someone argued that Plato wrote Zarathustra? Now you know how I feel talking with you about this.
Quote:
You may have been doing hip hop . . but if it was the same thing that was sweeping the country in the eighties and was called 'hip hop' then it was street smart and "cool" and that is why it swept the nation.
You are so ridiculously on the outside looking in.
Quote:
Todays electronic music in large part has computer music as a main component . . . the people that you yourself mentioned 'radiohead et al' use computers in their music . . . I know that techno and such didn't use computers . . . but since we seemed to be saying that spending all day in front of one then that's what I was going with as a sign of geekness
again, refer to my first point in this post.
Quote:
you were not being a real geek
So basically, you thoroughly demonstrate you know NOTHING about something, and then decide to categorize it and then me, someone you still know NOTHING about.
Again, refer to point one. But Plato did write his works to appease the Church!
You know, I still have yet to figure out why people find it necessary to form opinions about things they have no knowledge of. It even more baffling when they go so far as to argue about it. Wouldn't your energy be better spent learning something new about the world you live in? Maybe someday I'll understand. Perhaps it's some sort of primal instinct or something. Who knows?
& besides the whole musicians are geeks thing is pretty much wrong too . . .. as by virtue of what they have chosen to focus on they have proven that they are cool and not geeky . . . unless they want just to cover Tiny Tim . . . a REAL geek
No, no, no. Tiny Tim was a dork and a freak, not a geek.
i dont tend to think of musicians as geeks. in particular because, and i aint too sure of this, but many of my favorite bands weren't geeky.
geeks are more acceptable now though. all my friends and relatives know i'm a geek, and respect me in that way. back a few years ago, before i got into computers, even i made fun of em (i still thinks dorks and nerds are lame). i'm such a geek that when i wrote read back that parenthetic section i wrote, i replaced 'lame' with 'Lame Aint a Mp3 Encoder'. being a geek is definitely a lot cooler now than it once was. but its still not a good pickup line for chix: "hey baby, want me to program your microprocessor?," doesn't really help the situation out. but i'll always be thuhFreak.
Comments
Originally posted by Eugene
Considering that's her profession, why should that be astonishing?
Now you're just playing dumb.
The girl wrote a geekly little melody on her laptop and made an actual music box out of it, then put it on a major a major label pop album as a track. Whether you like her or not, that's fvcking geeky and pretty damn cool.
Originally posted by giant
The girl wrote a geekly little melody on her laptop and made an actual music box out of it, then put it on a major a major label pop album as a track. Whether you like her or not, that's fvcking geeky and pretty damn cool.
Like I said, your geek-scale is a bit more relaxed than mine.
Say, if a forumgoer made so-and-so comments about how she screwed up so-and-so stanzas of the song, and she responded and got into a flamewar with him...that would be tres geeky.
Originally posted by Eugene
Originally posted by giant
You'd be surprised at how many apparent thugs have furniture made out of gear and computers and spend all their time in front of electronics
Okay, you have a totally different geek-scale than I do.
So someone who puts their tv on a stack of computers, sits in front of electronics (and those electronics are their prized possessions) day in and day out aren't geeks just because you can't see past their exterior?
Well, maybe we do have a different conception of geek, since to me that person is a lot geekier than a rich suburban kid who never had to really think about it too much. Somehow, though, I get the impression you just want to argue at this point.
Hip-hop is associated with tough guys, gangsters-(not so much anymore) and sex . . . none of those are qualities associated with geekiness
Early electronic music, such as Tangerine-Dream and the Soft-Machine are just as responcible for influencing those musicians as Hip-Hop when considering the electronic aspect.
Those bands were definitely geeky
Bjork is NOT hip=hop, and she is also not a geek though she does have many geeky qualities . . . she is a perfect example of what has influenced the new trend of militant-geekdom: she has tatoos but she is not above talking like a little girl (as seen on an 'Art' video she was cameod on)
which brings me to the single biggest influence on the 'new-Geeekiness" as coolness factor:
ART SCHOOL!!!!
The "new-Geekiness" is a product of teh popularity of Art School . . . and I know, because I have been teaching at art schools for the past seven years . .
emo, intelligence, SENSITIVITY to a FAULT, an iPod and a familiarity with computers in general and Apple computers in particular . . . .
Hip Hop?!? I think you must be talking about something besides Geekiness . . .
Read these letters . . . real geekiness is still not cool . . .
Originally posted by pfflam
I don't know how old you are Giant but I was living in the center of downtown San Francisco when Hip-Hop was just getting started . . . in the Eighties and early nineties
Hip-hop is associated with tough guys, gangsters-(not so much anymore) and sex . . . none of those are qualities associated with geekiness
Like I said, go get Wild Style. Apparently you get a wrong impression from the outside. Of course, California has a habit of bastardizing things created elsewhere, so it's no wonder you have a skewed view.
Oh, and hip hop was going strong long before the late eighties. Hell, by that point it had become a pop music staple. And, yes, I was old enough to take part in it.
Early electronic music, such as Tangerine-Dream and the Soft-Machine are just as responcible for influencing those musicians as Hip-Hop when considering the electronic aspect.
Those bands were definitely geeky
Most people also attribute the rise of electronic music in america to a group of black men in the detroit ghettos. In fact, detroit techno is actually just as much black music as hip hop. And yes, those detroit musicians are very much geeks
Bjork is NOT hip=hop
Really? Thanks for letting me know. What about radiohead? Are they considered hip hop?
and she is also not a geek though she does have many geeky qualities
So, what's your criteria?
Hip Hop?!? I think you must be talking about something besides Geekiness . . .
No, you're just on the outside looking in.
Originally posted by pfflam
Letters from real Geeks about an article about how "cool" geekiness is
Read these letters . . . real geekiness is still not cool . . .
Hey this is a pretty interesting run down from one of those letters:
Nerds are defined by what they know. We tend to stick to societally acceptable topics, but dive in much deeper or cover a wider variety of subjects than most. We are the grad students of the world, the academics, researchers and general know-it-alls.
Dorks are defined by what they like. Similar to the nerd, we dive in much deeper than the average person, but the topics we pursue tend to be much more nontraditional. We learn to speak Klingon or Elvish or know the plot lines, writers, and artists of all the major comic books and most of the minor ones.
Geeks are defined by what they can do. We may not know as much as the nerd on any given topic, but we can do more with what we know. We can hook up a home theater, fix a computer, or super-charge a lawnmower. We are the tinkerers, programmers, and garage inventors.
- arguments about minutia
- internet message boards about computers
- keeping old computers due to sentimental value
cheers
and SF is not far from Oakland and yes I knew people in Oakland making Hip Hop, they sometimes practiced in my living room . . . if you are 'outside' don't assume that every one that you talk to here is or has always been . . . I was not a Hip Hop fan and and I wasn't hanging too much with these people but my roommate at the time was
and yes I was aware of the Detroit musicians and particularly the main guy which you are talking about, and yes, the main figure displays Geeky qualities . . . he was a real predecessor of electronic music and of rap and Hip Hop . . . but when it became Hip Hop it transformed into tough street-smart attitude music . . . but the music he made was more like dance and trance music not the street smart toughness of hip hop
and if you haven't noticed, toughness and street smarts are antithetical to the qualities that are associated with being a geek
being a Geek: timidity, sensitivity, social skills sacrificed to the higher importance of mastering the schematics of a home-made motherboard or to a particularly dramatic Troll-trap in a dark Dungeon in Dungeons and Dragons . . .in other words no social savviness AT ALL!
Usually thin, often unwashed
Geekness has always been NOT COOL . . . street smarts have always been 'cool' and always will be 'cool'
. . . a 'geek' was an outcast
Now the LOOK of a Geek is cool . . . but real Geeks will always be outcasts with certain age groups . . .
Electronic music may be made with computers by people who spend all day making their music . . . but that doesn't mean anything . . . anybody who is good at something spends a lot of time doing that thing . . . electronic musicians USE computers . . . that does not make electronic musicians 'Geeks'
Computers are just the new tools . . .
Hip hop has influenced almost every aspect of American cultural life . . but the aspect that make it seperate from electronic music in general are rhythm, attitude, street-smarts and those attitudes are, by definition, impossible for a geek to acquire whle still keeping his/her geek status
. . . as far as "Wild Style" . . .its about "outlaw" graffitti artists:
Wild Style follows the outlaw artists through the train yards to the rap/breakdance clubs.The movie climaxes at a massive outdoor jam, definitely the most famous hip hop party in history!
Hard to roll that twenty sided dice and kill the onrushing Orcs while running from the cops and partying all night
. . . like I was saying . . . antithetical to real Geekness . . .
Originally posted by giant
Well, maybe we do have a different conception of geek, since to me that person is a lot geekier than a rich suburban kid who never had to really think about it too much. Somehow, though, I get the impression you just want to argue at this point.
I'm flattered you think Björk and gangsta thugs are geekier than I am. That made my day. I'm going to go attempt to hit on somebody now.
Originally posted by pfflam
they sometimes practiced in my living room
Real hip hop happened in cyphers, huddled behind buildings, in most cases outside. California hip hop is a different world, and it was well into the 90s before people outside of the state started taking it seriously. Hell, it wasn't until a few years ago, well after I had stopped doing it myself, that I could even bear california graffiti.
and yes I was aware of the Detroit musicians and particularly the main guy which you are talking about, and yes, the main figure displays Geeky qualities
Who is the 'main guy?' It was a community, and I spent a few years in detroit in the mid nineties and spent time with most of them.
. . . he was a real predecessor of electronic music and of rap and Hip Hop . . . but when it became Hip Hop it transformed into tough street-smart attitude music . . . but the music he made was more like dance and trance music not the street smart toughness of hip hop
Hip hop came about very organically, and it's clearly wrong to say that hip hop came from detroit techno. There were a lot of influences. Perhaps the primary reason for hip hop going so electronic is because electronics provided a economical solution.
and if you haven't noticed, toughness and street smarts are antithetical to the qualities that are associated with being a geek
Certainly not outside of urban areas. But sometimes it's necessary.
being a Geek: timidity, sensitivity, social skills sacrificed to the higher importance of mastering the schematics of a home-made motherboard or to a particularly dramatic Troll-trap in a dark Dungeon in Dungeons and Dragons . . .in other words no social savviness AT ALL!
Usually thin, often unwashed
Geekness has always been NOT COOL . . . street smarts have always been 'cool' and always will be 'cool'
Not true. Street smarts are often necessary. It's only cool to outsiders who never lived liked that.
D&D was dorky, not geeky. And, yes, I played it. And yes, I know quite a few thugs that played it. It was actually a big thing in parts of the hip hop community. Ah, the things we learn that shatter our stereotypes.
. . . a 'geek' was an outcast
Part of the reason hip hop works for urban america is that it works to protect the young urban geek. If you can be an entertainer, people like you.
Now the LOOK of a Geek is cool . . . but real Geeks will always be outcasts with certain age groups . . .
What LOOK is that? White?
Electronic music may be made with computers by people who spend all day making their music . . . but that doesn't mean anything . . . anybody who is good at something spends a lot of time doing that thing . . . electronic musicians USE computers . . . that does not make electronic musicians 'Geeks'
Computers are just the new tools . . .
Actually, in hip hop computers are shunned as not geeky enough. Do some research on what folks use.
but the aspect that make it seperate from electronic music in general are rhythm, attitude, street-smarts and those attitudes are, by definition, impossible for a geek to acquire whle still keeping his/her geek status
Techno always was VERY street smart, from Detroit to NY to England to Germany. And electronic music in general? Glitch was always a subset. Hell, even FSOL was beat heavy.
. . . as far as "Wild Style" . . .its about "outlaw" graffitti artists:Hard to roll that twenty sided dice and kill the onrushing Orcs while running from the cops and partying all night
. . . like I was saying . . . antithetical to real Geekness . . .
Like I said, watch the film. Most of the people in the film are THE originators of hip hop (rapping, Djing, graffiti) and as you would see in the film, they are just a bunch of ugly geeks shunned by the world around them. In fact, the scene where 'Zoro' and the woman reporter almost get robbed shows CLEARLY how hip hop was often very effective in providing defense in the ghetto. And the reporter demonstrates how popular media fell in love with this totally independent geek culture. Graffiti was so indie that it was by nature independent of law, the most basic cultural control. Hell, if you bought your paint you were shunned as not being geeky enough.
Hell, the fact that your knowledge of this film comes from a silly little discription like the one you quoted shows you really are forming opinions about something you know nothing about. I respect you and expect better from you.
And as I pointed out before, D&D was a big thing in parts of the hip hop community.
Originally posted by pfflam
being a Geek: timidity, sensitivity, social skills sacrificed to the higher importance of mastering the schematics of a home-made motherboard
And this wasn't (isn't) a part of hip hop?! On what planet?
Originally posted by pfflam
they sometimes practiced in my living room
I just have to add that in every community I was in, there was no practicing, there was only doing. I never heard of anyone practicing. The closest thing to practice would be a graffiti artist's scratch book, or maybe a rapper writing in his rhyme book on the bus. Actually I guess DJs would practice, but this is a solitary thing. In hip hop, you aren't really practicing when you are in a room with someone else.
the 'look' of classic geekness is as I described it: thin unwashed cardigan wearing, most often white yes . . . but not always
You may have been doing hip hop . . but if it was the same thing that was sweeping the country in the eighties and was called 'hip hop' then it was street smart and "cool" and that is why it swept the nation.
When I mention street smarts what I am talking about is the attitude that was part and parcel of the Hip Hop . . . It became a gimmick when it became mainstream 'gansta rap' the attitude is what defined the word 'cool' . . to be cool was to be savvy and reserved in a tough environment out of familiarity with the ins-and-outs of that environment
If you don't know what 'cool' means then maybe you really ARE a Geek!?!?
anyway, 'cooleness' thus defined has always been, by definition, what a Geek CANNOT have.
once a Geek gets cool he is no longer a geek!!
.
Todays electronic music in large part has computer music as a main component . . . the people that you yourself mentioned 'radiohead et al' use computers in their music . . . I know that techno and such didn't use computers . . . but since we seemed to be saying that spending all day in front of one then that's what I was going with as a sign of geekness
what do you mean when you say " not true streets smarts are often necessary"?
necessary? for what? to be a geek or just to survive?
and I don't mean the actual smarts I mean the appearance of having the smarts: the look of being 'cool'
oh, and as far as practicing . . . these guys listened to NWA and some more obscure acts that I don't know about but they wanted to play electric guitar and drums and sound like rap/metal/hip hop . . . who am I to argue with them?
i guess you were 'down' with the center of the 'scene' AND you were stealing your paints and getting together in your glyphs and breakdancing before everybody else
but then since you were out their doing it with others and setting a scene then you were not being a real geek
The guys playing in my living room were pretty much no-talents and, therefor, I guess, they were not cool and thus pretty much just geeks
not like you who were cool and part of the real authentic origins of Hip Hop happening
. . . but you know what . . I think that you just don't understand what people mean by Geek or the look of geekness
Im sure that much of the phenomena that you describe had alot of very smart people who were so articulate that they couldn't talk to people . .. and they probably were pretty much geeks
but Hip Hop still was not a geek product . . . it formed communities and was 'cool' . ..it not only had an edge it defined the cutting edge for years
Something that is cutting edge by definition again is not geeky
in fact a good way to define geeky is to say it is whatever is not-cool at any given moment.
so the LOOK of geekness that is cool right now is not at all really geeky because its cool
How can you honestly say these guys are Geeks??!?! They are dripping with coolness . . . they are virtually BADass!!
and badassness is NOT geeky
I mean . . . come on!!
& besides the whole musicians are geeks thing is pretty much wrong too . . .. as by virtue of what they have chosen to focus on they have proven that they are cool and not geeky . . . unless they want just to cover Tiny Tim . . . a REAL geek
Originally posted by pfflam
I saw the guy in Detroit interviewed . . . I can't remember his name but he is creditted with pretty much starting techno . . . he was geeky in that he seemed to lack social skills and was articulate
How would you feel if someone argued that Plato wrote Zarathustra? Now you know how I feel talking with you about this.
You may have been doing hip hop . . but if it was the same thing that was sweeping the country in the eighties and was called 'hip hop' then it was street smart and "cool" and that is why it swept the nation.
You are so ridiculously on the outside looking in.
Todays electronic music in large part has computer music as a main component . . . the people that you yourself mentioned 'radiohead et al' use computers in their music . . . I know that techno and such didn't use computers . . . but since we seemed to be saying that spending all day in front of one then that's what I was going with as a sign of geekness
again, refer to my first point in this post.
you were not being a real geek
So basically, you thoroughly demonstrate you know NOTHING about something, and then decide to categorize it and then me, someone you still know NOTHING about.
Again, refer to point one. But Plato did write his works to appease the Church!
You know, I still have yet to figure out why people find it necessary to form opinions about things they have no knowledge of. It even more baffling when they go so far as to argue about it. Wouldn't your energy be better spent learning something new about the world you live in? Maybe someday I'll understand. Perhaps it's some sort of primal instinct or something. Who knows?
Originally posted by pfflam
& besides the whole musicians are geeks thing is pretty much wrong too . . .. as by virtue of what they have chosen to focus on they have proven that they are cool and not geeky . . . unless they want just to cover Tiny Tim . . . a REAL geek
No, no, no. Tiny Tim was a dork and a freak, not a geek.
geeks are more acceptable now though. all my friends and relatives know i'm a geek, and respect me in that way. back a few years ago, before i got into computers, even i made fun of em (i still thinks dorks and nerds are lame). i'm such a geek that when i wrote read back that parenthetic section i wrote, i replaced 'lame' with 'Lame Aint a Mp3 Encoder'. being a geek is definitely a lot cooler now than it once was. but its still not a good pickup line for chix: "hey baby, want me to program your microprocessor?," doesn't really help the situation out. but i'll always be thuhFreak.