Where's the equality?-The Glass Cellar

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 66
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    Gee... another pointless thread. Using your data analysis skills... you could write a book to compete with Ann Coulter's.



    This isn't necessary and only serves to make you look like a prick.
  • Reply 22 of 66
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR

    This is much ado about nothing. Women don't often choose these kinds of dangerous jobs. Ergo, the vast majority working these dangerous jobs are men. With the vast majority of workers being men, the vast majority of deaths would coincide.



    What exactly do you propose to do here? Force X% of women to take these dangerous jobs?



    I agree with a lot of what you have to say when it comes to divorce, father's rights, et cetera. However, you are just reaching here.



    Say exactly what you want to do about this difference in death rates or don't bother whining about it.




    No what I would propose is that when men get paid more for said dangerous jobs it not be used against them as gender discrimination.(men make more money = oppressing women) The point is that women are not kept out of these jobs, they choose not to take them. When it is a job they want it is sexism, when it is a job they don't want then it is..just fine.





    Nick
  • Reply 23 of 66
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Perhaps the mortality rate for males is up because we're too dumb to do these jobs without dying?
  • Reply 24 of 66
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kneelbeforezod

    I reckon that there is a pretty simple explanation for the disparities (both the large and small). A job may be undesirable for a number of reasons. It may be low paying or low status. It may be physically demanding menial work or it may be dangerous. All too often, it may be all of these things. People take undesirable jobs when they have limited employment options. Men are less risk averse than women, and are more likely to choose physically demanding or dangerous work over low pay or low status work. Whether this is due to cultural or innate factors is probably fodder for another thread.



    So men would rather risk death than be poor. So whem women choose poor over the possibility of death, why is that the fault of sexist men? I'm asking because we hear repeated over and over the fact that women make (depending upon who you cite) about 76% of what men make. Yet it is clear women have a part in that decision and the outcomes from it as well



    Nick
  • Reply 25 of 66
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    Perhaps the mortality rate for males is up because we're too dumb to do these jobs without dying?



    Blaming the victim again bunge? What next, were we asking for it too?



    I think men having 97% of the jobs in those dangerous fields might have something to do with the 92% death rate don't you?



    However if dumb men do get killed while doing construction, yard work, etc. Then I'll be inviting you over to help adjust the blades on my lawnmower soon. You can hold the blade while I check the ignition up top.



    Nick
  • Reply 26 of 66
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    . When it is a job they want it is sexism, when it is a job they don't want then it is..just fine.





    Nick




    I don't see the problem here. Replace the word women by people in our sentance and you will have ;



    When it is a job they want it's discrimination, when it is a job they don't want then it is .. just fine.



    This sentance can apply to any group, sex, race or religion. It will be still correct. You can't force anybody to do a job that he don't want to do, but you cannot refuse him to do it for group, sex, race or religious discriminations. This is liberty, liberty to be able to do, or not to do.
  • Reply 27 of 66
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    Perhaps the mortality rate for males is up because we're too dumb to do these jobs without dying?



    Perhaps if you looked at the numbers again you would realize that statement is ridiculous.



    97% of these jobs are held by men.

    92% of those who die are male.



    3% of these jobs are held by women.

    8% of those who die are women.



    Men are too dumb to do these jobs without dying? I think not.



    Maybe what really should be examined is why women are dying at a much higher rate in these jobs. Maybe it might have to do with innate differences between males and females. Maybe we could stop pretending that everyone is the same.
  • Reply 28 of 66
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    trumptman:



    Quote:

    No what I would propose is that when men get paid more for said dangerous jobs it not be used against them as gender discrimination.



    Are women complaining that men in these dangerous jobs make more than women?



    Quote:

    When it is a job they want it is sexism, when it is a job they don't want then it is..just fine.



    Are women who don't want to work dangerous jobs complaining about men in those jobs making more than their co-working women?



    Arguments. Thoughts. Reason. These are all necessities.
  • Reply 29 of 66
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    I'm a prick for taking trumpetman to task for using the same warped data analysis as Ann Coulter uses to make her points?



    Conservatves using similar tactics to distort the truth... and then when a Liberal calls them on it... they get abuse.



    Interesting.
  • Reply 30 of 66
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    I'm a prick for taking trumpetman to task for using the same warped data analysis as Ann Coulter uses to make her points?



    Conservatves using similar tactics to distort the truth... and then when a Liberal calls them on it... they get abuse.



    Interesting.




    Quote:

    Gee... another pointless thread.



    Surely this is not at all intended as flamebait.



    Quote:

    Using your data analysis skills... you could write a book to compete with Ann Coulter's.



    Knowing your view of Ann Coulter, you are essentially calling Trumpetman a dumbass.





    There is a difference between pointing out a flaw in logic and being a prick about it. I have done the same thing in the past to people like SDW and Scott. Just because I call you out on something doesn't mean I'm oppressing liberals. Stop pretending to be oppressed.
  • Reply 31 of 66
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    The topic is pointless because Trumptman's argument is baseless...



    He used data to make a point... but he distorts the truth... and I think knowingly so. Conservatives do it all the time... it's not my fault that Ann Coulter is one of the RIght's loudest voices...



    If he had a valid point I wouldn't compare him to Ann Coulter on this one.



    It's like saying "how come the vast majority of hunting accidents happen to men?"



    Gee I wonder why.



    Using this to say that NOW is in someway hypocritical is baseless.
  • Reply 32 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    So men would rather risk death than be poor. So whem women choose poor over the possibility of death, why is that the fault of sexist men? I'm asking because we hear repeated over and over the fact that women make (depending upon who you cite) about 76% of what men make.



    The often cited 76% statistic refers to the average disparity between women's and men's earnings when they are doing the same jobs. This disparity actually moves closer to 60% at the higher end of the pay scale. In 1998, the median earnings of women with a professional degree were $55,460, compared with $90,653 for men.



    Going back to the kind of jobs that poor, unskilled workers end up doing: You seem to feel that women are benefiting by showing a preference for not working in more dangerous environments, therefore they should be paid less. Of course, this is a comparison that we can only make in a hypothetical world where a woman with few skills and little education has the same (legal) opportunities for making money at the same rate as a similarly unskilled man. If a 5'5" 140lb woman and a 5'10" 180lb man apply for a construction job, who do you really think is going to get it?



    The simple fact is that poor women get paid less for their hours spent doing undesirable, low status, menial, yet still physically demanding, jobs. Poor men don't get paid particularly well for doing dangerous and physically demanding jobs, so there is no real 'winner'.



    Edit: 1998, not 2000.
  • Reply 33 of 66
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    The often cited 76% statistic refers to the average disparity between women's and men's earnings when they are doing the same jobs.



    i'm sorry but i have to believe that stat is a crock of shit.



    otherwise any company could outcompete everyone else by hiring exclusively women.
  • Reply 34 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    i'm sorry but i have to believe that stat is a crock of shit.



    Tell it to the census bureau.
  • Reply 35 of 66
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    I find that statistic easy to believe... a larger percentage of women work in low-paying low-skills jobs than do women working in high-paying upwardly moving jobs.
  • Reply 36 of 66
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    dp
  • Reply 37 of 66
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    The often cited 76% statistic refers to the average disparity between women's and men's earnings when they are doing the same jobs.



    so they aren't doing the same jobs and that statistic is just intentionally misleading. nice.
  • Reply 38 of 66
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    If they're making LESS as a population... I don't see what the argument is?



    Means that MEN get paid much better and have more opportunities in the upper eschelons of business.
  • Reply 39 of 66
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    If they're making LESS as a population... I don't see what the argument is?



    Means that MEN get paid much better and have more opportunities in the upper eschelons of business.




    Two words. Maternity leave. 'Nuff said.
  • Reply 40 of 66
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR

    Perhaps if you looked at the numbers again you would realize that statement is ridiculous.



    Perhaps if you read my statement again you could see I was kidding.



    I agree that the differences in men and women would skew the stats.
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