Most computers are on a three-year-or-so life cycle. Folks still clinging to the bad old days and ways will eventually find themselves wanting more than their old machine provides. Apple still offers the best experience out there, and learning Mac OS X will be way easier than learning Windows. They'll move on to OS X eventually.
And then they'll kick themselves for having waited so long to get here.
Randy, it's not "arrogant" and I'm certainly on no crusade. That's why I went out of my way to make the point of it being PEOPLE I KNOW, IN MY CIRCLE OF FRIENDS/EXPERIENCE.
I never said "everyone not using X was fearful, lazy and ignorant...".
Just the people I was working with or know or deal with on these kinds of things (co-workers, friends with Macs, etc.)
Relax.
They're all happier and better off with it.
10x? Okay, I pulled that number out of the air. But they really like it, okay? How about 3.536x?
I can only speak about what I know. I've got no reason to lie...
They came to MY house. They saw MY iMac. They asked ME questions. I didn't set off on a "you're going to switch, OR ELSE!" mission at all. I'd never do that. But it was obvious to me that they were intrigued, impressed and were simply staying with 9 out of the three reasons mentioned earlier. Once they realized there was no good reason to, they were thrilled to purchase Jaguar (or, more recently, Panther) and have me help get them up and running.
I've heard not one complaint. Mostly a consumer/home user kinda crowd, too. Only about 2 in the bunch I'd consider "savvy pro" type of user. They already had Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7, so there was no additional investment in software for them, which was one of the things they were needlessly worried about.
I am an nut that installed the public beta but a far more sane way of looking at computers is. "Dont fix it if it aint broke".
The guy at the next desk is using 8.1 on his B&W G3 as it came intalled with. His applications are the old ones form his previous computer. Endnote is just Endnote not even Endnote2 (current version is 7)
But he has a lot of work to get done and the OS and applications works so why mess with upgrading and learning new application versions and OS versions
One could worry that people would think that OS X is as different 8.1 as Win XP is so why not buy a PC. But the deluge of viri, worms, hacks and things really do not inspire to use Win for anything important
I ....finally put Panther on my G4 at work Monday and I'm SO much happier:.....
Just curious, did you do a clean install? My copy of Panther arrived a couple of days ago and I plan on just upgrading the installed 10.2 and not reformating etc. and doing a clean install.
"..........OS X has been adopted by 30% of the installed base, which includes machines that can't run OS X at all.........
"
Pardon my ignorance Amorph,
but when Mr Schiller refers to "installed base" is he referring to the "New" macs that people have filled out their registration cards for ?
Or is he referring simply to people who have paid up for .Mac home page ?
Either way, that is still a very small operating base. & neither of which accounts for the millions of unregistered & second hand macs being used.
Also given Apples' recent attitude regarding security patches for "Panther Only" It makes me think that Apple is using pressure to make people upgrade. The fact that they were forced to change their tune on this issue says more about their "misreading" of the mac using publics' attitude than they would have liked to admit.
Jobs always said OS-X was a huge gamble..but the dice are still rolling...
For me its simple. I just don't love it. I suspect that many seasoned mac users are also still wary of it.
I don't love the fact that as a seasoned mac user since the original macos I have no idea how this system really works or whaat's really on my hard drive
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I don't love the fact that I can't boot to a desktop and drag and drop misbehaving parts of the system off my cd onto the startup folder
I don't love the fact that it has permissions as I don't understand them. I thought I did, but I don't. How come when I turn it on having not intalled anything or run anything disk util finds permisions to fix?
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
I don't love the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in the UI
I don't love the fact that nearly all of the apps I use and rely on seem to have paid lip service to the transition to X and become buggy, late, slow and in one or two cases no longer available - even though the windows versions go from strength to strength
I don't love the fact that had I upgraded my 15 G4s to Panther none of the 30 hard drives with students work on them would work any more
I don't love the fact that each upgrade seems to play havoc with my peripherals and require driver updates - this was far less common under 9
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
Don't get me wrong guys I do belive that X is powerful 9aalthough I've yet to see it) and I am appreciative of the lack of crashing but I'm sure that there are many of us who don't care about terminal, and x10 and unixthingy version 2 and network control unix magic 6 etc.
we jut wanna know that if there's a problem it will behave like a mac and be fixable by someone who knows nothing.
we just wanna be able to run Photoshop, after effects, dreamweaver, director, freehand etc - and do it smoothly and quickly. Just like we've always been used to on our platform of choice.
For those of us that don't fiddle with haxies and don't go for the unix fanboy thing it fels like apple has forsaken us.
For me its simple. I just don't love it. I suspect that many seasoned mac users are also still wary of it.
I don't love the fact that as a seasoned mac user since the original macos I have no idea how this system really works or whaat's really on my hard drive
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I don't love the fact that I can't boot to a desktop and drag and drop misbehaving parts of the system off my cd onto the startup folder
I don't love the fact that it has permissions as I don't understand them. I thought I did, but I don't. How come when I turn it on having not intalled anything or run anything disk util finds permisions to fix?
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
I don't love the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in the UI
I don't love the fact that nearly all of the apps I use and rely on seem to have paid lip service to the transition to X and become buggy, late, slow and in one or two cases no longer available - even though the windows versions go from strength to strength
I don't love the fact that had I upgraded my 15 G4s to Panther none of the 30 hard drives with students work on them would work any more
I don't love the fact that each upgrade seems to play havoc with my peripherals and require driver updates - this was far less common under 9
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
Don't get me wrong guys I do belive that X is powerful 9aalthough I've yet to see it) and I am appreciative of the lack of crashing but I'm sure that there are many of us who don't care about terminal, and x10 and unixthingy version 2 and network control unix magic 6 etc.
we jut wanna know that if there's a problem it will behave like a mac and be fixable by someone who knows nothing.
we just wanna be able to run Photoshop, after effects, dreamweaver, director, freehand etc - and do it smoothly and quickly. Just like we've always been used to on our platform of choice.
For those of us that don't fiddle with haxies and don't go for the unix fanboy thing it fels like apple has forsaken us.
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love how I break a sweat when an OS9 app hangs and I have to invoke that ugly black-and-white force quit dialog, often crashing the rest of the computer or mangling other programs.
Rebooting is easy. I'll give you that.
I love how in OSX I can safely kill apps individually, even ones that aren't frontmost, and not worry about them bringing down the whole computer and losing all my unsaved open data. I love how in OSX if even the interface itself is frozen, I can easily connect remotely from another computer, kill the ui (and let it automatically reload), and leave background processes running unscathed by the process.
Quote:
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I love the fact that some problems that would otherwise be unsolvable or exceedingly difficult on OS9 can be answered by advanced users with the CLI.
Quote:
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I love the fact that it has a BSD-like CLI and not a DOS CLI. There's the kicker. When most people think "CLI" they immediately associate it with DOS. This isn't DOS. This is a *lot* more powerful than DOS.
Quote:
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love extensions, but I am ecstatic that now my files can happily coexist and be stored with the 97% of the rest of the world that doesn't use HFS+ filesystems.
Quote:
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
Quote:
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I love the fact that after three years, OSX and its brand new, never before implemented interface system has gotten faster by leaps and bounds and now offers me UI management features and tools that I could have never dreamed of having on OS9. I love how with OSX I can work and multitask more efficiently, even if it means it'll take me a whole 1 second longer to resize a window two or three times a day.
Quote:
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of French people. Maybe I should get to know some of them and I'd like them better.
Comments
Originally posted by Kirkland
Most computers are on a three-year-or-so life cycle. Folks still clinging to the bad old days and ways will eventually find themselves wanting more than their old machine provides. Apple still offers the best experience out there, and learning Mac OS X will be way easier than learning Windows. They'll move on to OS X eventually.
And then they'll kick themselves for having waited so long to get here.
Kirk
You just nailed my story. Well done.
Originally posted by DMBand0026
HEY! Back off. My Apple Plus still runs, now internet, but it still runs. If it didn't have a 25mhz processor, I would still use it.
But that's a Mac. Not an Apple I II II or lisa.
I never said "everyone not using X was fearful, lazy and ignorant...".
Just the people I was working with or know or deal with on these kinds of things (co-workers, friends with Macs, etc.)
Relax.
They're all happier and better off with it.
10x? Okay, I pulled that number out of the air. But they really like it, okay? How about 3.536x?
I can only speak about what I know. I've got no reason to lie...
They came to MY house. They saw MY iMac. They asked ME questions. I didn't set off on a "you're going to switch, OR ELSE!" mission at all. I'd never do that. But it was obvious to me that they were intrigued, impressed and were simply staying with 9 out of the three reasons mentioned earlier. Once they realized there was no good reason to, they were thrilled to purchase Jaguar (or, more recently, Panther) and have me help get them up and running.
I've heard not one complaint. Mostly a consumer/home user kinda crowd, too. Only about 2 in the bunch I'd consider "savvy pro" type of user. They already had Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7, so there was no additional investment in software for them, which was one of the things they were needlessly worried about.
The guy at the next desk is using 8.1 on his B&W G3 as it came intalled with. His applications are the old ones form his previous computer. Endnote is just Endnote not even Endnote2 (current version is 7)
But he has a lot of work to get done and the OS and applications works so why mess with upgrading and learning new application versions and OS versions
One could worry that people would think that OS X is as different 8.1 as Win XP is so why not buy a PC. But the deluge of viri, worms, hacks and things really do not inspire to use Win for anything important
X is good they will come
Originally posted by pscates
I ....finally put Panther on my G4 at work Monday and I'm SO much happier:.....
Just curious, did you do a clean install? My copy of Panther arrived a couple of days ago and I plan on just upgrading the installed 10.2 and not reformating etc. and doing a clean install.
OS X has been adopted by 30% of the installed base, which includes machines that can't run OS X at all.
This will only get better. So I think things don't actually look so bad.
Originally posted by Amorph
"..........OS X has been adopted by 30% of the installed base, which includes machines that can't run OS X at all.........
"
Pardon my ignorance Amorph,
but when Mr Schiller refers to "installed base" is he referring to the "New" macs that people have filled out their registration cards for ?
Or is he referring simply to people who have paid up for .Mac home page ?
Either way, that is still a very small operating base. & neither of which accounts for the millions of unregistered & second hand macs being used.
Also given Apples' recent attitude regarding security patches for "Panther Only" It makes me think that Apple is using pressure to make people upgrade. The fact that they were forced to change their tune on this issue says more about their "misreading" of the mac using publics' attitude than they would have liked to admit.
Jobs always said OS-X was a huge gamble..but the dice are still rolling...
I don't love the fact that as a seasoned mac user since the original macos I have no idea how this system really works or whaat's really on my hard drive
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I don't love the fact that I can't boot to a desktop and drag and drop misbehaving parts of the system off my cd onto the startup folder
I don't love the fact that it has permissions as I don't understand them. I thought I did, but I don't. How come when I turn it on having not intalled anything or run anything disk util finds permisions to fix?
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
I don't love the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in the UI
I don't love the fact that nearly all of the apps I use and rely on seem to have paid lip service to the transition to X and become buggy, late, slow and in one or two cases no longer available - even though the windows versions go from strength to strength
I don't love the fact that had I upgraded my 15 G4s to Panther none of the 30 hard drives with students work on them would work any more
I don't love the fact that each upgrade seems to play havoc with my peripherals and require driver updates - this was far less common under 9
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
Don't get me wrong guys I do belive that X is powerful 9aalthough I've yet to see it) and I am appreciative of the lack of crashing but I'm sure that there are many of us who don't care about terminal, and x10 and unixthingy version 2 and network control unix magic 6 etc.
we jut wanna know that if there's a problem it will behave like a mac and be fixable by someone who knows nothing.
we just wanna be able to run Photoshop, after effects, dreamweaver, director, freehand etc - and do it smoothly and quickly. Just like we've always been used to on our platform of choice.
For those of us that don't fiddle with haxies and don't go for the unix fanboy thing it fels like apple has forsaken us.
Originally posted by spooky
For me its simple. I just don't love it. I suspect that many seasoned mac users are also still wary of it.
I don't love the fact that as a seasoned mac user since the original macos I have no idea how this system really works or whaat's really on my hard drive
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I don't love the fact that I can't boot to a desktop and drag and drop misbehaving parts of the system off my cd onto the startup folder
I don't love the fact that it has permissions as I don't understand them. I thought I did, but I don't. How come when I turn it on having not intalled anything or run anything disk util finds permisions to fix?
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
I don't love the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in the UI
I don't love the fact that nearly all of the apps I use and rely on seem to have paid lip service to the transition to X and become buggy, late, slow and in one or two cases no longer available - even though the windows versions go from strength to strength
I don't love the fact that had I upgraded my 15 G4s to Panther none of the 30 hard drives with students work on them would work any more
I don't love the fact that each upgrade seems to play havoc with my peripherals and require driver updates - this was far less common under 9
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
Don't get me wrong guys I do belive that X is powerful 9aalthough I've yet to see it) and I am appreciative of the lack of crashing but I'm sure that there are many of us who don't care about terminal, and x10 and unixthingy version 2 and network control unix magic 6 etc.
we jut wanna know that if there's a problem it will behave like a mac and be fixable by someone who knows nothing.
we just wanna be able to run Photoshop, after effects, dreamweaver, director, freehand etc - and do it smoothly and quickly. Just like we've always been used to on our platform of choice.
For those of us that don't fiddle with haxies and don't go for the unix fanboy thing it fels like apple has forsaken us.
Here's my tête-Ã*-tête for the night.
Originally posted by spooky
I don't love the fact that when OSX hangs I break out into a sweat - under 9 it was easy (if not always quick)
I don't love how I break a sweat when an OS9 app hangs and I have to invoke that ugly black-and-white force quit dialog, often crashing the rest of the computer or mangling other programs.
Rebooting is easy. I'll give you that.
I love how in OSX I can safely kill apps individually, even ones that aren't frontmost, and not worry about them bringing down the whole computer and losing all my unsaved open data. I love how in OSX if even the interface itself is frozen, I can easily connect remotely from another computer, kill the ui (and let it automatically reload), and leave background processes running unscathed by the process.
I don't love the fact that some problems have to be resolved via the CLI
I love the fact that some problems that would otherwise be unsolvable or exceedingly difficult on OS9 can be answered by advanced users with the CLI.
I don't love the fact that it has a CLI
I love the fact that it has a BSD-like CLI and not a DOS CLI. There's the kicker. When most people think "CLI" they immediately associate it with DOS. This isn't DOS. This is a *lot* more powerful than DOS.
I don't love the fact that there are file extensions
I don't love extensions, but I am ecstatic that now my files can happily coexist and be stored with the 97% of the rest of the world that doesn't use HFS+ filesystems.
I don't love the fact that so many icons aren't indicative of the function of that item
I don't love the fact that nearly 3 years on its still not as responsive as 9
I love the fact that after three years, OSX and its brand new, never before implemented interface system has gotten faster by leaps and bounds and now offers me UI management features and tools that I could have never dreamed of having on OS9. I love how with OSX I can work and multitask more efficiently, even if it means it'll take me a whole 1 second longer to resize a window two or three times a day.
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of X
I don't love the fact that my own doubts and insecurities make me suspicious of French people. Maybe I should get to know some of them and I'd like them better.