We're in a country where are support may be waning and you're putting out the idea that consolidating our power to the oil fields would be best.
And you don't see anything wrong with that idea? Or that any criticism might be constructive?
Hahaha, .. yeah. Well, I guess trying to impute that getting rid of Saddam and safeguarding the oil fields tantamount to American colonialism is maybe your idea of constructive criticism, but not mine. I see it more as a bad joke.
Like I said, that's not our fight. I would be very frank. We toppled Saddam. Now the playing field is leveled. No more bitching from you Iraqi SOB's. If "Iraqis" want to joint the 21st century we can help. But you need to make that decision, act on it and act decisively. I haven't seen much evidence that this is the case. And I see no point in sustaining needless casualties and fighting this war while the local population act as passive collaborators for Baathists and the Islamacist and rest of them. I say fsck that. Iraq was the aggressor, broke her ceasefire obligations, and now war reparation need to be paid. That's the bill Iraq owes and we're here to collect. Now, we rid you of that murderous monster Saddam, the rest is up to you. You don't want to fight the left over Baathists and Islamacist and the rest of those criminals, well the hell with you.
But Clarke knew where he was going with it... and stopped him dead in his tracks.
hmm,..
Either he's practicing some bad drama lesson, or he lost his cool under pressure. Either which way he comes out a loser. Also, you might want to research what his former bosses and colleagues have to say about the man..
The present situation in Iraq is not the result of Iraqis condoning the insurgents and terrorists.
It's the result of poor planning. You honestly believe that you can just take out SOME of the military... make Saddam run and hide and that's good enough for the Iraqis to now fix it themselves?
I don't think we're being colonial... I think your brilliant plan has the attitude and appearance of colonialism...
you think the only thing worth fight for there is the oil.
I thought Clarke did a great job of shutting down the Fox guy who was trying to skew his statement. Nipped it in the bud quite nicely.
As I recall, that was one of the favorite themes of the Johnson administration (maybe back to Kennedy). Part of the ideology of the era was liberal anti-communism (cold war liberalism) which fused military containment with a belief of "removing" the causes of communism through foriegn aide and western nation-building.
Vietnam was a "noble cause" - a venture in keeping people free of communism and encouraging land reform, democratization etc. There were a ton of programs established by State and others to "transform" Vietnam through liberal economic and political reforms.
That's the kind of "nation building" I am leery of. Given that we are still in Kosovo, we ought to be.
I hate to bring this up again but I was in high school during most of Vietnam and remember it quite well. Iraq is nothing like Vietnam other than the fact it was war based on agendas not popularly advertised ( companies making materials for war etc. )that we should have never got involved in. The idea was to drive out the communists and build the military into a fighting force that could stand on it's own against the north. It never had a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. In Iraq we managed to take over the country and are in a compleatly different situation.
The present situation in Iraq is not the result of Iraqis condoning the insurgents and terrorists.
It's the result of poor planning. You honestly believe that you can just take out SOME of the military... make Saddam run and hide and that's good enough for the Iraqis to now fix it themselves?
I don't think we're being colonial... I think your brilliant plan has the attitude and appearance of colonialism...
you think the only thing worth fight for there is the oil.
I thought Clarke did a great job of shutting down the Fox guy who was trying to skew his statement. Nipped it in the bud quite nicely.
The present situation is exacerbated by the fact that many Iraqis particularly around Bagdad are either passively or actively anti American and are probably even pro Saddam. Their hatred for America blinds them even to their own best interest. And this current argument championed by you Liberal whinos that somehow the defense establishment poorly planed for the war because they didn't include more troops in this operation, is pure BS. Everything I read indicates that the US is overexerted in its man power, and frankly there are no more troops to be had. The generals know this, and therefore you will not see them ask for more troops that aren't there to be had.
Also, Saddam is a hunted animal. He should have captured and killed long ago. My intuition tells me he's in Syria, but that doesn't mean that the population at large can give his operatives a free ride and think they can get away with it. They can't. And they won't. Sooner or later, the policy people will realize that it's pointless to try and help people who won't help themselves. I've already come to that conclusion regards the Iraqis around Bagdad some months ago. And therefore my attitude is to say fsck them. Let the Kurds and the Shiite have first divi of the oil revenues once those start coming in, and get the our troops hell out of those areas where they are exposed to these blood thirty criminals and their collaborators.
I referred to China because my point was that even a closed COMMUNIST country like China allows for foreign competition (to some extent). So you have still to explain what does the occupation of Iraq by the Allied Forces have to do with forbidding competition for contracts by foreign companies.
The present situation is exacerbated by the fact that many Iraqis particularly around Bagdad are either passively or actively anti American and are probably even pro Saddam. Their hatred for America blinds them even to their own best interest. Let the Kurds and the Shiite have first divi of the oil revenues once those start coming in, and get the our troops hell out of those areas where they are exposed to these blood thirty criminals and their collaborators.
Who asked for Americans to start this war?
Bush has failed at selling this war and he has many people pissed off at him and I would argue for good reason.
I referred to China because my point was that even a closed COMMUNIST country like China allows for foreign competition (to some extent). So you have still to explain what does the occupation of Iraq by the Allied Forces have to do with forbidding competition for contracts by foreign companies.
I would forbid it because giving reconstruction contracts to foreign companies (non-Iraqi) doesn't educate Iraqis on how to do business and on how to build their infrastructure.
Bush has failed at selling this war and he has many people pissed off at him and I would argue for good reason.
Fellowship
I agree with you.
The Bush propaganda machine is simply no much to that of the Libis. And therefore the failure to sell the war to a more satisfactory extent. The only way to bypass them is to go over their heads. That's what the Presidential Address to the Nation hopefully does. And I would encourage you to go and read those speeches directly. But how many of those can the President give? And how many are enough to counter all the Hippi Libi garbage floating out there?
The president will always be out matched by the Liberal filters and spin masters. So it's up to you to turn that drivel off and concentrate on what the President said, and not what others say he said.
I would forbid it because giving reconstruction contracts to foreign companies (non-Iraqi) doesn't educate Iraqis on how to do business and on how to build their infrastructure.
?!!
What is this nonsense? We're not dealing with some illiterate Afghanis. This is Iraq we're dealing with. The most modern Arab society on the planet. Anyway, even if I was to accept your argument that the Iraqis are a bunch of uneducated 3rd world carpet weavers there isn't time for this. These things were needed to be build yesterday.
The Bush propaganda machine is simply no much to that of the Libis. And therefore the failure to sell the war to a more satisfactory extent. The only way to bypass them is to go over their heads. That's what the Presidential Address to the Nation hopefully does. And I would encourage you to go and read those speeches directly. But how many of those can the President give? And how many are enough to counter all the Hippi Libi garbage floating out there?
The president will always be out matched by the Liberal filters and spin masters. So it's up to you to turn that drivel off and concentrate on what the President said, and not what others say he said.
Libis? Hippi Libi? Liberal filters and spin masters?
The war in Iraq advanced by none other than Bush has more than just to do with left or right wing politics.
Bush has failed to make a case for war spin or no spin.
"Oh, so there are "no plans" to re-instate the draft? No, there are just EXERCISES and $28 million extra to get the whole Selective Service ready and open for business by June 15, 2005!!
Read this official budget carefully and you will see that Bush is gearing up the draft--there is no longer any doubt about it. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005, that the system is ready for activation within 75 days. So on June 15, 2005, expect the announcement that the first draft lottery since Vietnam will be held for 20 year-olds.
Here is where the DU rubber hits the road, my friends. This is a DU EXCLUSIVE as far as I know, so please read this one carefully and let me know what we are going to do about it. To put this all into context, the SSS has lain basically dormant for decades and now in the 2004 budget, Bush has added $28 million to get the whole thing ready to fly in 2005. The 4 performance goals below basically make the system ready for activation. "
Like I said, that's not our fight. I would be very frank. We toppled Saddam. Now the playing field is leveled. No more bitching from you Iraqi SOB's. If "Iraqis" want to joint the 21st century we can help. But you need to make that decision, act on it and act decisively. I haven't seen much evidence that this is the case. And I see no point in sustaining needless casualties and fighting this war while the local population act as passive collaborators for Baathists and the Islamacist and rest of them. I say fsck that. Iraq was the aggressor, broke her ceasefire obligations, and now war reparation need to be paid. That's the bill Iraq owes and we're here to collect. Now, we rid you of that murderous monster Saddam, the rest is up to you. You don't want to fight the left over Baathists and Islamacist and the rest of those criminals, well the hell with you.
So: WMD, don't matter; ties to al Qeada, whatever; liberation of Iraqi people, 'em. And the liberal spin masters are keeping the rightousness of the cause from the people.
Comments
You're very much like the present administration... advice or dissent falls on deaf ears.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
All I did was disagree with you and point out the flaws in your ideas.
You're very much like the present administration... advice or dissent falls on deaf ears.
I wouldn't call your (royal you) whining anything close to "advice". It's just whining. Nothing more, nothing less.
Originally posted by aapl
Surely you jest.
Even communist China allows for foreign [competition].
We're not occupying China.
You know what's best and what will work?
We're in a country where are support may be waning and you're putting out the idea that consolidating our power to the oil fields would be best.
And you don't see anything wrong with that idea? Or that any criticism might be constructive?
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player...raight&wvx-300
But Clarke knew where he was going with it... and stopped him dead in his tracks.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
You think your plan is valid?
You know what's best and what will work?
We're in a country where are support may be waning and you're putting out the idea that consolidating our power to the oil fields would be best.
And you don't see anything wrong with that idea? Or that any criticism might be constructive?
Hahaha, .. yeah. Well, I guess trying to impute that getting rid of Saddam and safeguarding the oil fields tantamount to American colonialism is maybe your idea of constructive criticism, but not mine. I see it more as a bad joke.
Like I said, that's not our fight. I would be very frank. We toppled Saddam. Now the playing field is leveled. No more bitching from you Iraqi SOB's. If "Iraqis" want to joint the 21st century we can help. But you need to make that decision, act on it and act decisively. I haven't seen much evidence that this is the case. And I see no point in sustaining needless casualties and fighting this war while the local population act as passive collaborators for Baathists and the Islamacist and rest of them. I say fsck that. Iraq was the aggressor, broke her ceasefire obligations, and now war reparation need to be paid. That's the bill Iraq owes and we're here to collect. Now, we rid you of that murderous monster Saddam, the rest is up to you. You don't want to fight the left over Baathists and Islamacist and the rest of those criminals, well the hell with you.
Originally posted by THT
We're not occupying China.
LOL. Obviously you haven't been to Vancouver.
Anyway, I fail to make the connection. What does one have to do with other?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Nice try FOX.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player...raight&wvx-300
But Clarke knew where he was going with it... and stopped him dead in his tracks.
hmm,..
Either he's practicing some bad drama lesson, or he lost his cool under pressure. Either which way he comes out a loser. Also, you might want to research what his former bosses and colleagues have to say about the man..
It's the result of poor planning. You honestly believe that you can just take out SOME of the military... make Saddam run and hide and that's good enough for the Iraqis to now fix it themselves?
I don't think we're being colonial... I think your brilliant plan has the attitude and appearance of colonialism...
you think the only thing worth fight for there is the oil.
I thought Clarke did a great job of shutting down the Fox guy who was trying to skew his statement. Nipped it in the bud quite nicely.
Originally posted by aapl
Anyway, I fail to make the connection. What does one have to do with other?
Then why did you refer to it (China)?
Originally posted by MaxParrish
As I recall, that was one of the favorite themes of the Johnson administration (maybe back to Kennedy). Part of the ideology of the era was liberal anti-communism (cold war liberalism) which fused military containment with a belief of "removing" the causes of communism through foriegn aide and western nation-building.
Vietnam was a "noble cause" - a venture in keeping people free of communism and encouraging land reform, democratization etc. There were a ton of programs established by State and others to "transform" Vietnam through liberal economic and political reforms.
That's the kind of "nation building" I am leery of. Given that we are still in Kosovo, we ought to be.
I hate to bring this up again but I was in high school during most of Vietnam and remember it quite well. Iraq is nothing like Vietnam other than the fact it was war based on agendas not popularly advertised ( companies making materials for war etc. )that we should have never got involved in. The idea was to drive out the communists and build the military into a fighting force that could stand on it's own against the north. It never had a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. In Iraq we managed to take over the country and are in a compleatly different situation.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
The present situation in Iraq is not the result of Iraqis condoning the insurgents and terrorists.
It's the result of poor planning. You honestly believe that you can just take out SOME of the military... make Saddam run and hide and that's good enough for the Iraqis to now fix it themselves?
I don't think we're being colonial... I think your brilliant plan has the attitude and appearance of colonialism...
you think the only thing worth fight for there is the oil.
I thought Clarke did a great job of shutting down the Fox guy who was trying to skew his statement. Nipped it in the bud quite nicely.
The present situation is exacerbated by the fact that many Iraqis particularly around Bagdad are either passively or actively anti American and are probably even pro Saddam. Their hatred for America blinds them even to their own best interest. And this current argument championed by you Liberal whinos that somehow the defense establishment poorly planed for the war because they didn't include more troops in this operation, is pure BS. Everything I read indicates that the US is overexerted in its man power, and frankly there are no more troops to be had. The generals know this, and therefore you will not see them ask for more troops that aren't there to be had.
Also, Saddam is a hunted animal. He should have captured and killed long ago. My intuition tells me he's in Syria, but that doesn't mean that the population at large can give his operatives a free ride and think they can get away with it. They can't. And they won't. Sooner or later, the policy people will realize that it's pointless to try and help people who won't help themselves. I've already come to that conclusion regards the Iraqis around Bagdad some months ago. And therefore my attitude is to say fsck them. Let the Kurds and the Shiite have first divi of the oil revenues once those start coming in, and get the our troops hell out of those areas where they are exposed to these blood thirty criminals and their collaborators.
Originally posted by THT
Then why did you refer to it (China)?
I referred to China because my point was that even a closed COMMUNIST country like China allows for foreign competition (to some extent). So you have still to explain what does the occupation of Iraq by the Allied Forces have to do with forbidding competition for contracts by foreign companies.
Originally posted by aapl
The present situation is exacerbated by the fact that many Iraqis particularly around Bagdad are either passively or actively anti American and are probably even pro Saddam. Their hatred for America blinds them even to their own best interest. Let the Kurds and the Shiite have first divi of the oil revenues once those start coming in, and get the our troops hell out of those areas where they are exposed to these blood thirty criminals and their collaborators.
Who asked for Americans to start this war?
Bush has failed at selling this war and he has many people pissed off at him and I would argue for good reason.
Fellowship
Originally posted by aapl
I referred to China because my point was that even a closed COMMUNIST country like China allows for foreign competition (to some extent). So you have still to explain what does the occupation of Iraq by the Allied Forces have to do with forbidding competition for contracts by foreign companies.
I would forbid it because giving reconstruction contracts to foreign companies (non-Iraqi) doesn't educate Iraqis on how to do business and on how to build their infrastructure.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Who asked for Americans to start this war?
Bush has failed at selling this war and he has many people pissed off at him and I would argue for good reason.
Fellowship
I agree with you.
The Bush propaganda machine is simply no much to that of the Libis. And therefore the failure to sell the war to a more satisfactory extent. The only way to bypass them is to go over their heads. That's what the Presidential Address to the Nation hopefully does. And I would encourage you to go and read those speeches directly. But how many of those can the President give? And how many are enough to counter all the Hippi Libi garbage floating out there?
The president will always be out matched by the Liberal filters and spin masters. So it's up to you to turn that drivel off and concentrate on what the President said, and not what others say he said.
Originally posted by THT
I would forbid it because giving reconstruction contracts to foreign companies (non-Iraqi) doesn't educate Iraqis on how to do business and on how to build their infrastructure.
?!!
What is this nonsense? We're not dealing with some illiterate Afghanis. This is Iraq we're dealing with. The most modern Arab society on the planet. Anyway, even if I was to accept your argument that the Iraqis are a bunch of uneducated 3rd world carpet weavers there isn't time for this. These things were needed to be build yesterday.
Originally posted by aapl
I agree with you.
The Bush propaganda machine is simply no much to that of the Libis. And therefore the failure to sell the war to a more satisfactory extent. The only way to bypass them is to go over their heads. That's what the Presidential Address to the Nation hopefully does. And I would encourage you to go and read those speeches directly. But how many of those can the President give? And how many are enough to counter all the Hippi Libi garbage floating out there?
The president will always be out matched by the Liberal filters and spin masters. So it's up to you to turn that drivel off and concentrate on what the President said, and not what others say he said.
Libis? Hippi Libi? Liberal filters and spin masters?
The war in Iraq advanced by none other than Bush has more than just to do with left or right wing politics.
Bush has failed to make a case for war spin or no spin.
Fellowship
I guess bad news is liberal news?
Bush is trying to spin a trainwreck.
If you're in your 20's I hope you don't vote for Bush... because their getting the draft ready for 2005.
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com...opic_id=716016
"Oh, so there are "no plans" to re-instate the draft? No, there are just EXERCISES and $28 million extra to get the whole Selective Service ready and open for business by June 15, 2005!!
Read this official budget carefully and you will see that Bush is gearing up the draft--there is no longer any doubt about it. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005, that the system is ready for activation within 75 days. So on June 15, 2005, expect the announcement that the first draft lottery since Vietnam will be held for 20 year-olds.
Here is where the DU rubber hits the road, my friends. This is a DU EXCLUSIVE as far as I know, so please read this one carefully and let me know what we are going to do about it. To put this all into context, the SSS has lain basically dormant for decades and now in the 2004 budget, Bush has added $28 million to get the whole thing ready to fly in 2005. The 4 performance goals below basically make the system ready for activation. "
Originally posted by aapl
Like I said, that's not our fight. I would be very frank. We toppled Saddam. Now the playing field is leveled. No more bitching from you Iraqi SOB's. If "Iraqis" want to joint the 21st century we can help. But you need to make that decision, act on it and act decisively. I haven't seen much evidence that this is the case. And I see no point in sustaining needless casualties and fighting this war while the local population act as passive collaborators for Baathists and the Islamacist and rest of them. I say fsck that. Iraq was the aggressor, broke her ceasefire obligations, and now war reparation need to be paid. That's the bill Iraq owes and we're here to collect. Now, we rid you of that murderous monster Saddam, the rest is up to you. You don't want to fight the left over Baathists and Islamacist and the rest of those criminals, well the hell with you.
So: WMD, don't matter; ties to al Qeada, whatever; liberation of Iraqi people,
I find this..... border line insane.