Indeed - after not liking him for a long time I'm begining to really respect that guy... now if only he could get more involved in the ME peace process, sort out Iraq with a decent democracy and get the US economy back on track he might just turn into one of those great US presidents (the likes of Kennedy, Reagan, FDR etc)...
Bush's place in history remains to be seen. I have said for awhile though, that my feeling is he will be considered in the same league with who you mentioned. Of course, when I say that, Bush opponenents go just totally wacky with anger and frustration and disbelief, but that's to be expected.
Now, the man is going to be reelected. Anyone who can't see that at this point is just kidding himself. Here's what I see happening. Economic growth will be in the 4-6% annual range by the time Election 2004 comes along. He will point to his tax cuts and promise to make them permament. He will take credit for Medicare. He will take credit for the WOT. Iraq will be under its own provisional government by June and you'll see about 100,000 troops statring to come home during the summer. He will point to this as Iraq having a very positive direction. But, it it will be the WOT that Bush rams down his opponent's throat. He will tout his experience and expose the fact that said opponent has no alternative plan for fighting terrorism.
The question of his place in history depends on some other issues which may be not answered right away. He'll always be remembered as the 9//11 President and now it seems with the economic recovery, the tax-cutting President. But, will we get bin Laden? Saddam? Will there finally be a settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian issue? Will he fix domestic problems like illegal immigration and Social Security? And just how will Iraq ultimately turn out? These will be the real questions.
What's funny is how dumbfounded Bush opponents are by the move. They can't really criticize it....and yet it's really bad for them.
Well, it's like everything else about him. If you worship him, then this was a brilliant and courageuos stunt. If you don't, then you wonder about the juxtaposition of "Bring...it...on" and a secret, two-hour stop-over at a US military base that was only made public after AFOne left Iraqi airspace. Granted, the Secret Service would have gone apoplectic at anything else, but it would have been truly admirable for him to have gone out on convoy patrol to shake the hands of a few Iraqis. "I am here with you, I share your hardships. But we'll fix this together. Ich bin ein Iraqi." Something like that would have certainly won over some hearts and minds. Instead, those ordinary Iraqis think they're being manipulated for a campaign photo-op, and who can deny that they're right?
I wonder about how this president is really perceived in the military. Things like this and the carrier stunt, I could easily see going either way.
According to CNN's story, AFOne touched down at 5:31pm in Baghdad. Just after sunset, presumably.
Thanks! I'm actually really glad to hear that, since if this hadn't been the case, this visit would've smacked of the insincerity of using a national holiday and soldiers fighting a war to bump up his numbers in the polls.
I think it was a great idea on Bush's part. It shows that he has confidence in our troops, and that he knows he will be safe there. Just as burningwheel said, it is a big morale boost for the troops, and I think it may win some more over for the legitimacy of this war.
Is Karl Rove getting desperate? It was a short-sighted idea.....in the same way his appearance on the carrier off San Diego was: instant gratification and media hoopla, but more than likely to generate long term skepticism. He was in Iraq for a mere 2.5 hours (!) ... for an 18,000 mile round-trip, and remained within the confines of a heavily fortified US military facility for the duration. Why didn't he bother meeting any of those people he supposed cares so much about as to spend $200 billion to "liberate" them? Is he as scared of those Iraqis as he is of American people who disagree with him?
Every time President Clinton stepped on Air Force One and went on a trip the Republicans complained about the associated costs for such trips. Since Republican love to honor tradition (re: CBS), I thought I'd oblige by questioning how much this stunt cost the American taxpayers?
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious.
Every time President Clinton stepped on Air Force One and went on a trip the Republicans complained about the associated costs for such trips. Since Republican love to honor tradition (re: CBS), I thought I'd oblige by questioning how much this stunt cost the American taxpayers?
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious.
I don't know, but he'd better hope he didn't get a damned haircut on the plane...
Edit: I'm still pissed as hell at the buck or so I spent funding Ken Starr's idiotic investigation of Clinton....
According to her (via the NYDailyNews story linked above),
>>>>""It's a positive for the commander-in-chief to visit troops in the field," Clinton said, yet "the troops [also] seemed to appreciate seeing myself" and Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) on their joint trip to Iraq and Afghanistan. <<<<<
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious. [/B]
The figure I heard was $77,000 per hour to run Air Force One. The round trip to Baghdad was 27 hours flying time so this little stunt cost the US taxpayers a shade over $2 million....not including the cost of the accompanying F15s etc.
All for a chicken-hawk to serve turkey to sitting ducks.
The figure I heard was $77,000 per hour to run Air Force One. The round trip to Baghdad was 27 hours flying time so this little stunt cost the US taxpayers a shade over $2 million....not including the cost of the accompanying F15s etc.
All for a chicken-hawk to serve turkey to sitting ducks.
How much do we think the Hillary trip is costing? And what's her trip doing?
What's funny is how dumbfounded Bush opponents are by the move. They can't really criticize it....and yet it's really bad for them.
But of course it doesn't matter at all what's good for the country.
Hey, I got an idea-- since your so impressed by this kind of shit, why don't you enlist in the motherfücking army? I am so fücking sick of you chickenhawk assholes and your gung-ho hypocricy.
You're 27 years old. Get your ass in a uniform or STFU.
If the internet was a real research tool you look up the number of times that other presidents went to visit the troops in the field and compare it to our current President. Doris Kearns was on one of the Sunday political talk shows discussing that very topic. I believe that she said that Lincoln went out to his troops about 18 times (don't quote me though, look it up for yourselves). Visiting the troops is nothing new.
They're called "politicians" for a reason. Even the best of our past leaders were not gods, they were men and women and they made mistakes. Those who hate Bush fundamentally will be unswayed by this particular event.
Of the two, Hilary's or Bush's, I'd say that Bush's was the more appropriate appearance. Make no mistake that Hilary is entirely devoted to the rehabilitation of her character for an eventual run for the Presidency. If an intermediate leadership position is available between now and then, she'll be in a tooth and claw fight to get it.
The Democratic leadership is incredibly fragmented at this point in time and Bush's trip to visit his troops was a real kick in the Dems collective nut-sacks....especially in Hilary's. She's been publicly positive about his trip, but behind the scenes its another story.
This pop-in trip was a tactical nuke to the campaign, and will be hereafter considered to be the opening salvo in his campaign.
The Democratic leadership is incredibly fragmented at this point in time and Bush's trip to visit his troops was a real kick in the Dems collective nut-sacks....especially in Hilary's. She's been publicly positive about his trip, but behind the scenes its another story.
This pop-in trip was a tactical nuke to the campaign, and will be hereafter considered to be the opening salvo in his campaign.
Comments
Originally posted by rashumon
Indeed - after not liking him for a long time I'm begining to really respect that guy... now if only he could get more involved in the ME peace process, sort out Iraq with a decent democracy and get the US economy back on track he might just turn into one of those great US presidents (the likes of Kennedy, Reagan, FDR etc)...
Bush's place in history remains to be seen. I have said for awhile though, that my feeling is he will be considered in the same league with who you mentioned. Of course, when I say that, Bush opponenents go just totally wacky with anger and frustration and disbelief, but that's to be expected.
Now, the man is going to be reelected. Anyone who can't see that at this point is just kidding himself. Here's what I see happening. Economic growth will be in the 4-6% annual range by the time Election 2004 comes along. He will point to his tax cuts and promise to make them permament. He will take credit for Medicare. He will take credit for the WOT. Iraq will be under its own provisional government by June and you'll see about 100,000 troops statring to come home during the summer. He will point to this as Iraq having a very positive direction. But, it it will be the WOT that Bush rams down his opponent's throat. He will tout his experience and expose the fact that said opponent has no alternative plan for fighting terrorism.
The question of his place in history depends on some other issues which may be not answered right away. He'll always be remembered as the 9//11 President and now it seems with the economic recovery, the tax-cutting President. But, will we get bin Laden? Saddam? Will there finally be a settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian issue? Will he fix domestic problems like illegal immigration and Social Security? And just how will Iraq ultimately turn out? These will be the real questions.
Does anyone have a link to a story with the times in it?
Originally posted by midwinter
I can't seem to find it now, but I seem to remember reading that this dinner was held at 6:00 am.
Does anyone have a link to a story with the times in it?
No, but it is funny.
Originally posted by SDW2001
What's funny is how dumbfounded Bush opponents are by the move. They can't really criticize it....and yet it's really bad for them.
Well, it's like everything else about him. If you worship him, then this was a brilliant and courageuos stunt. If you don't, then you wonder about the juxtaposition of "Bring...it...on" and a secret, two-hour stop-over at a US military base that was only made public after AFOne left Iraqi airspace. Granted, the Secret Service would have gone apoplectic at anything else, but it would have been truly admirable for him to have gone out on convoy patrol to shake the hands of a few Iraqis. "I am here with you, I share your hardships. But we'll fix this together. Ich bin ein Iraqi." Something like that would have certainly won over some hearts and minds. Instead, those ordinary Iraqis think they're being manipulated for a campaign photo-op, and who can deny that they're right?
I wonder about how this president is really perceived in the military. Things like this and the carrier stunt, I could easily see going either way.
Originally posted by midwinter
I can't seem to find it now, but I seem to remember reading that this dinner was held at 6:00 am.
Does anyone have a link to a story with the times in it?
According to CNN's story, AFOne touched down at 5:31pm in Baghdad. Just after sunset, presumably.
Originally posted by Towel
According to CNN's story, AFOne touched down at 5:31pm in Baghdad. Just after sunset, presumably.
Thanks! I'm actually really glad to hear that, since if this hadn't been the case, this visit would've smacked of the insincerity of using a national holiday and soldiers fighting a war to bump up his numbers in the polls.
Cheers
Scott
LOL
Fellows
Originally posted by DMBand0026
I think it was a great idea on Bush's part. It shows that he has confidence in our troops, and that he knows he will be safe there. Just as burningwheel said, it is a big morale boost for the troops, and I think it may win some more over for the legitimacy of this war.
Is Karl Rove getting desperate? It was a short-sighted idea.....in the same way his appearance on the carrier off San Diego was: instant gratification and media hoopla, but more than likely to generate long term skepticism. He was in Iraq for a mere 2.5 hours (!) ... for an 18,000 mile round-trip, and remained within the confines of a heavily fortified US military facility for the duration. Why didn't he bother meeting any of those people he supposed cares so much about as to spend $200 billion to "liberate" them? Is he as scared of those Iraqis as he is of American people who disagree with him?
Quagmire Accomplished.
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious.
Originally posted by Northgate
Every time President Clinton stepped on Air Force One and went on a trip the Republicans complained about the associated costs for such trips. Since Republican love to honor tradition (re: CBS), I thought I'd oblige by questioning how much this stunt cost the American taxpayers?
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious.
I don't know, but he'd better hope he didn't get a damned haircut on the plane...
Edit: I'm still pissed as hell at the buck or so I spent funding Ken Starr's idiotic investigation of Clinton....
According to her, the troops loved having her there:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-125078c.html
According to her (via the NYDailyNews story linked above),
>>>>""It's a positive for the commander-in-chief to visit troops in the field," Clinton said, yet "the troops [also] seemed to appreciate seeing myself" and Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) on their joint trip to Iraq and Afghanistan. <<<<<
"Myself"?
"Myself"?
Interesting woman.
Aries 1B
[
What's a round trip flight to Baghdad onboard Air Force One, plus all the associated security apperatus cost? Just curious. [/B]
The figure I heard was $77,000 per hour to run Air Force One. The round trip to Baghdad was 27 hours flying time so this little stunt cost the US taxpayers a shade over $2 million....not including the cost of the accompanying F15s etc.
All for a chicken-hawk to serve turkey to sitting ducks.
Originally posted by sammi jo
The figure I heard was $77,000 per hour to run Air Force One. The round trip to Baghdad was 27 hours flying time so this little stunt cost the US taxpayers a shade over $2 million....not including the cost of the accompanying F15s etc.
All for a chicken-hawk to serve turkey to sitting ducks.
How much do we think the Hillary trip is costing? And what's her trip doing?
Originally posted by bunge
How much do we think the Hillary trip is costing? And what's her trip doing?
Intellectually honest, bunge. I'll say that for you.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Intellectually honest, bunge. I'll say that for you.
Well, I'd guess her trip is probably better since it costs less and is doing 'more', but no one here really knows.
Originally posted by SDW2001
What's funny is how dumbfounded Bush opponents are by the move. They can't really criticize it....and yet it's really bad for them.
But of course it doesn't matter at all what's good for the country.
Hey, I got an idea-- since your so impressed by this kind of shit, why don't you enlist in the motherfücking army? I am so fücking sick of you chickenhawk assholes and your gung-ho hypocricy.
You're 27 years old. Get your ass in a uniform or STFU.
They're called "politicians" for a reason. Even the best of our past leaders were not gods, they were men and women and they made mistakes. Those who hate Bush fundamentally will be unswayed by this particular event.
Of the two, Hilary's or Bush's, I'd say that Bush's was the more appropriate appearance. Make no mistake that Hilary is entirely devoted to the rehabilitation of her character for an eventual run for the Presidency. If an intermediate leadership position is available between now and then, she'll be in a tooth and claw fight to get it.
The Democratic leadership is incredibly fragmented at this point in time and Bush's trip to visit his troops was a real kick in the Dems collective nut-sacks....especially in Hilary's. She's been publicly positive about his trip, but behind the scenes its another story.
This pop-in trip was a tactical nuke to the campaign, and will be hereafter considered to be the opening salvo in his campaign.
Bellyachers? I've heard you already~
The Democratic leadership is incredibly fragmented at this point in time and Bush's trip to visit his troops was a real kick in the Dems collective nut-sacks....especially in Hilary's. She's been publicly positive about his trip, but behind the scenes its another story.
This pop-in trip was a tactical nuke to the campaign, and will be hereafter considered to be the opening salvo in his campaign.
Bellyachers? I've heard you already~
Bingo.