Kerry's losing it, and I don't just mean in a poll
Kerry cursing out of "frustration"
Sounds like the pressure of Dean and Bush is getting to Kerry at a minimum or this is a lame attempt at generating some sort of interest in the maximum.
I don't doubt for a second that all the other candidates can curse and have as well. It just seems odd for a presidential contender to let this roll on out in a magazine. I guess it goes with riding the motorcycle.
So I guess the best that Kerry can come up with for voting for the "action/war" in Iraq is, "Well I didn't know Bush was going to f*ck it up that bad." Interesting....
And just a preemptive for ShawnJ, if you don't believe that f*ck is a curse word, you'll have to look it up on your own.
Nick
Quote:
"I voted for what I thought was best for the country. Did I expect Howard Dean to go off to the left and say, 'I'm against everything'? Sure. Did I expect George Bush to f - - - it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did," Kerry told the youth-oriented magazine.
"I voted for what I thought was best for the country. Did I expect Howard Dean to go off to the left and say, 'I'm against everything'? Sure. Did I expect George Bush to f - - - it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did," Kerry told the youth-oriented magazine.
Sounds like the pressure of Dean and Bush is getting to Kerry at a minimum or this is a lame attempt at generating some sort of interest in the maximum.
I don't doubt for a second that all the other candidates can curse and have as well. It just seems odd for a presidential contender to let this roll on out in a magazine. I guess it goes with riding the motorcycle.
So I guess the best that Kerry can come up with for voting for the "action/war" in Iraq is, "Well I didn't know Bush was going to f*ck it up that bad." Interesting....
And just a preemptive for ShawnJ, if you don't believe that f*ck is a curse word, you'll have to look it up on your own.
Nick
Comments
Originally posted by trumptman
or this is a lame attempt at generating some sort of interest in the maximum.
Please notice to what kind of audience Kerry "accidentally" used a dirty word.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by midwinter
Please notice to what kind of audience Kerry "accidentally" used a dirty word.
Cheers
Scott
I know it was Rolling Stone. That's why he was on the cover tongue kissing Eddie Vedder.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I know it was Rolling Stone. That's why he was on the cover tongue kissing Eddie Vedder.
Nick
I honestly don't know whether it's from RS or not (I quit reading it in college, although I like PJ O'Rourke).
My point is that Kerry, who Limbaugh, et al have branded as the "French-looking" candidate, needs to get some traction with the kids. Dean's got it almost exclusively because he's "Angry Dean" most of the time.
The logic is pretty simple:
1) Kids like to rebel against whatever.
2) Dean is angry and edgy.
3) Kerry looks, acts and smells like I'm an overly-educated elitist from New England
4) Maybe if Kerry accidentally lets the f-bomb fly, the kids will think he's angry and edgy, too.
Why is this an issue for you any more than Clinton talking about what kind of underwear he wears or Bush pretending that he's a "regular guy" hanging out on his ranch?
Cheers
Scott
Last time I checked F*CK was R-Rated.
"Oh no! Kerry is a raving frustrated lunatic!"
He used the word F*CK in a candid interview.
Figures that's how the NY POST would cover it. The big money loser rag that it is.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/752664.asp
"_Kerry and I had what candidates call a ?spirited exchange? in which he defended his vote. He said he felt betrayed by George Bush, whom he had believed, had not yet made up his mind to go to war when the vote was taken. He never expected a unilateral war given the way Powell, Scowcroft, Eagleberger and others were speaking at the time. He defends his willingness to trust the president of the United States, but now realizes that this was a big mistake. At one point, after answering somebody else?s question, he turned back to me and pointedly?one might even say ?passionately??insisted, ?And Eric, if you truly believe that if I had been president, we would be at war in Iraq right now, then you shouldn?t vote for me.?
Originally posted by midwinter
I honestly don't know whether it's from RS or not (I quit reading it in college, although I like PJ O'Rourke).
My point is that Kerry, who Limbaugh, et al have branded as the "French-looking" candidate, needs to get some traction with the kids. Dean's got it almost exclusively because he's "Angry Dean" most of the time.
The logic is pretty simple:
1) Kids like to rebel against whatever.
2) Dean is angry and edgy.
3) Kerry looks, acts and smells like I'm an overly-educated elitist from New England
4) Maybe if Kerry accidentally lets the f-bomb fly, the kids will think he's angry and edgy, too.
Why is this an issue for you any more than Clinton talking about what kind of underwear he wears or Bush pretending that he's a "regular guy" hanging out on his ranch?
Cheers
Scott
Who said it was some sort of major issue for me? No one said everything I post to AI/AO has to make or break the planet. It was just interesting so I stuck it up here.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Who said it was some sort of major issue for me? No one said everything I post to AI/AO has to make or break the planet. It was just interesting so I stuck it up here.
Nick
I didn't say it was a "major issue" for you. I asked why this was an "issue" for you. You said you thought it was interesting.
And now I ask this: Why? This is business as usual for all politicians, regardless of stripe.
Cheers
Scott
At the very least, as it's being reported now, it smacks of desperation.
This topic could be a great segue into how politicians effectively court younger voters. In that regard, Howard Dean is the man. There is an excellent, excellent, excellent 7-page article in the New York Times Magazine today about the young people working for the Dean campaign. The Dean Connection (User: appleinsider Password: appleinsider) was so inspiring I immediate became a DeanLink member. I know it's trite, but join the revolution! Dean is truly generating excitement among young people.
(Disclaimer: Yeah I jumped off the Kucinich train and decided to throw all my energy behind Dean)
I think that part of the issue here is that Dean is simply capitalizing on the same kinds of things that thetruth.com has been: the desire among youths to rebel against the establishment.
Now, why this is resonating to this degree among people 20-32 years old is another thing. I'm not sure I know...
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Huh? Dean's support is because college kids want to Rebel? Dean's message is more about change and empowerment than anything else.46% of amercans say they're NOT going to vote for Bush. It has nothing to do with anti-establishment feelings.
Did you even read what I wrote? I said, very clearly, I think, this:
"I think that part of the issue here is that Dean is simply capitalizing on the same kinds of things that thetruth.com has been: the desire among youths to rebel against the establishment.
Now, why this is resonating to this degree among people 20-32 years old is another thing. I'm not sure I know..."
I'll go very slowly.
1) Youths like to rebel. We all know this. thetruth.com is capitalizing on it.
2) Dean's "angry Dean" stance capitalizes on this impulse among young people, since he's angry about "the establishment."
3) I don't know why Dean is so popular among people in the latter years of college and beyond.
As for Dean's message...
I don't know that it's about change or empowerment or whatever so much as it is about "I'm pissed off and come be pissed off with me." This is a potentially VERY profitable tack for the Dean campaign to take, but it could also backfire if Dean doesn't figure out something OTHER than "Angry Dean" to campaign on.
Cheers
Scott
Do you have to be angry to criticize Bush?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Don't be patronizing.
Don't make this about me. This is about Dean and why he's getting such remarkable traction--in such unprecedented ways--while other candidates aren't.
I've been to a Dean rally.
Congratulations. I've been to a couple of Ray Charles concerts.
The "angry dean" story is old and off the mark. Like the "angry liberal" story is old.
I don't think so. I think that anger, for the Dean campaign, is crucial. And my only concern about their use of it is that, depending upon their timing, it could play badly for them in the end if there doesn't appear (to the swing voters) to be anything OTHER than anger.
Do you have to be angry to criticize Bush?
No. But it helps, since if you criticize him and don't appear angry it's very easy to label you as "partisan."
Cheers
Scott
I've seen Dean in action... he's not a one note I'M PISSED! candidate.
He's energetic and forceful in his criticism. And passionate about what he wants to do.
It's less about anger and more about conviction.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
I'll go slow.
Thank you. I've been drinking.
This isn't about me.
Good, because I don't know anything about you other than that we tend to agree about political matters.
I've seen Dean in action...
I don't know think that this matters. That was my point above. There are 250-odd million people in America. In the last election, the country was LITERALLY split down the middle. It's not about what he can do at the rallies. It's about what the folks in Enid, Oklahoma read in the papers or see on the TV.
he's not a one note I'M PISSED! candidate.
I don't doubt that. The issue is how he's perceived. And right now, he's in danger of being perceived that way.
He's energetic and forceful in his criticism. And passionate about what he wants to do.
Yes. Yes, he is. But his energy, forcefulness and passion register, for many, as little more than anger. And he needs to be careful about this once he's won the primary and gotten Clark on board as a VP candidate (which for me is the magic ticket).
It's less about anger and more about conviction.
Again, it's not about either of those things. It's about how he's perceived. Right now, he's in good shape. But 3 moves ahead, if the game plan hasn't changed, he's in trouble. And I really, really don't want him to be in trouble.
Cheers
Scott
I also think the perception is based partly on what the media decides is the story. "this guy is angry". Like the last election when they decided that "gore lies and exaggerates"... when he hadn't.
How many reporters actually report about the contents of speeches?
They're lazy... if there isn't a sound bite written for them... they don't know what to do.
A Dean/Clark ticket would be a serious threat to Bush/Haliburton.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Ok. I thought you were being a tad patronizing with "I'll go slow".
I was being more than "a tad" patronizing. I was being tremendously patronizing.
But it wasn't directed at you.
I also think the perception is based partly on what the media decides is the story. "this guy is angry". Like the last election when they decided that "gore lies and exaggerates"... when he hadn't.
I don't agree here. Dean's campaign could, tomorrow, decide to transform the message of his campaign to "Dean loves cute and fuzzy kittens" and that's what the media would report.
How many reporters actually report about the contents of speeches?
They're lazy... if there isn't a sound bite written for them... they don't know what to do.
Again, I disagree. They report what they report because they're in the business of selling papers. If the people weren't buying it, they wouldn't report it.
A Dean/Clark ticket would be a serious threat to Bush/Haliburton.
I think it might be more than a serious threat. I think they could destroy the Bush campaign, but only if they play their cards right.
Cheers
Scott
I meant it in the kindest of ways!
Cheers
Scott
Two things:
1) Do "the kids" read Rolling Stone? (If "no", then does Kerry think they do? If he does, and is wrong, then it is not a good sign for him.)
2) Couldn't Kerry's wirty dord have been the sort of thing people in his position often say to interviewers but which was not edited out because RS wants to show how cutting edge it is?