Tough New Tactics by U.S. Tighten Grip on Iraq Towns

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  • Reply 81 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    Hahaha. Your right. Its actually quite funny/sad noone discovered that before now.







    Positive reinforcement is such a beautiful thing. Run along now.
  • Reply 82 of 111
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    Mr. Butane is back!
  • Reply 83 of 111
    i read today in the tribune that the much heralded iraqi army seems to be.....uh.....er....not showing up for work. uh deserting that's it.

    they aren't being paid enough.tribune story



    Quote:

    Iraqi soldiers deserting new army

    Most complain about low pay and death threats













    By Christine Spolar

    Tribune foreign correspondent

    Published December 9, 2003



    KIRKUSH MILITARY TRAINING BASE, Iraq -- The first battalion of the new Iraqi army, once celebrated as a key symbol of Iraq's recovery, has been abandoned by more than a third of its soldiers a week before the battalion is set to begin working alongside U.S. military units.



    The 694-man group calling itself the Freedom Battalion was sworn into duty Oct. 4. By the end of November, the payroll dropped to 455 soldiers who stayed amid fierce complaints about low pay and jitters over the occasional death threat, military officials said. Actual attendance is lower still: only 392 soldiers showed up Monday for their last week of drills, said a commander of the U.S.-supervised force at this desert base east of Baghdad.























    "The biggest reason for people leaving, from what we can tell, is salary," said U.S. Army Maj. Rick Caya, officer in charge of the 4th Infantry Division Command Advisory Group that trains soldiers beyond basic training.



    "Some people were patriotic [but] most people were not here to serve their country. It was to get a job," Caya said in an interview. "So these numbers are something we watch. When you're counting on a battalion to be 690 people and there's not, that's a problem."



    The troop shortage has been a quiet embarrassment for the U.S.-led coalition, which has promoted Iraqi-controlled security, and for its administrator, Paul Bremer, who hailed the formation of the first battalion.



    Rebuilding an army is a key component of the American-led reconstruction in Iraq. Bremer disbanded the former Iraqi army in May, a move that left thousands of Iraqis jobless.



    The creation of the first battalion was seen as a way to salvage good soldiers from the old regime and to relieve pressure on U.S. troops patrolling a still-convulsive Iraq. The Bush administration has envisioned training 40,000 troops in 27 battalions in a single year.



    Bremer was alerted every time the first battalion lost troops, according to a top official from a military unit managed by the coalition. Last week the walkouts grew so serious that Bremer met with Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, who manages the military training program, and agreed that a new salary scale had to be set quickly.



    On Monday, Iraqi finance officials and Eaton's Coalition Military Assistance Training Team were working hard on budget adjustments, said Marine Col. Allen Weh, chief of staff for Eaton. By Dec. 15, the first battalion is expected to be attached to the U.S. Army's 4th Infantry Division, headquartered in Tikrit.



    Weh said soldiers were angry after comparing their pay with the salaries of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, Iraqi Border Guard and Iraqi police. Army privates earn $70 a month and the highest officer at this time, a lieutenant colonel, takes home $180. Other Iraqi security forces earned an average of $10 to $40 more each month.



    "It's clear. The pay scale for an all-volunteer army was too doggone low," Weh said.



    He couldn't explain why the coalition's political arm had devised such an uneven pay scale.



    Trouble began in the battalion soon after basic training graduation on Oct. 4.



    All new Iraqi soldiers sign contracts promising a two-year commitment. Soldiers for the first battalion, however, had to sign a contract before the coalition and Iraqi Finance Ministry devised a pay scale, Weh said. As weeks passed, the soldiers realized they were making less than other police forces in Iraq.



    With the passing of every payday and every leave granted to the unit, soldiers began leaving the army, military officials said.



    The dropout rate soared after the soldiers' first two-week leave. When Oct. 18 rolled around, only 660 of 694 soldiers returned. Six days later, the entire battalion received a 30-day leave for Ramadan. When troops were to return in late November, another 50 dropped out.



    Most soldiers complained about the pay. A few told the Americans that they had received death threats back home in cities such as Basra and Nasiriyah. One company commander said he found a note, nailed to a fence outside his home, threatening that his family would be killed because of his work. Many said they worried for their families' security.



    Anger spread. On Nov. 30, the army's second payday, 116 Iraqis grabbed their coalition dollars, peeled off their camouflage and walked out, officers said.



    Some men shouted at army officers as they left, claiming better money could be made in their hometowns or in nearby Baquba, a city that has stoked anti-U.S. attacks.



    Those angry words still rankle some U.S. military. Insurgents pay people to attack U.S. troops and, as one officer said, "there's a concern" about a backlash from those disenfranchised Iraqi soldiers.



    The first battalion commander, Lt. Col. Ali Naim Jabbar, tried to reason with the men and then threatened dishonorable discharges that would ban them from any other government law-enforcement agency. Twenty-eight men decided to stay.



    Jabbar, interviewed at his office Monday, balked at detailing the soldiers' complaints. But he did confide that he had just met six former soldiers at the gate of the base who wanted to come back. No way, said Jabbar, a former officer in the old regime.



    "They were upset about $70," Jabbar said through a translator. "They won't get that in another job."



    How the first battalion will recover from its personnel crunch is unclear. Iraqi and U.S. commanders hope to pluck soldiers from recruits now training with the second and third battalions. The second battalion's basic training will end this month.



    The troops so far have been trained to handle checkpoints, help with reconnaissance and provide combat support. Recruits are trained by Vinnell Corp., a commercial security contractor. Soldiers undergo weeks more training with U.S. troops at Kirkush.



    Caya, of the 4th Infantry Division, was enthusiastic about the progress of first battalion despite its tensions.



    "A lot of people are trying to make this army work--and it will," he said.







    Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune








  • Reply 84 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    Mr. Butane is back!



    You've just given me an idea for my next nickname.
  • Reply 85 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    i read today in the tribune that the much heralded iraqi army seems to be.....uh.....er....not showing up for work. uh deserting that's it.

    they aren't being paid enough.tribune story








    All the more reasons to say fsck them..



    Let Saddam pay them. Mass graves, complementary of the house.
  • Reply 86 of 111
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    Dude. You're a one note Ukelele.



    You think they would be disappointed if we left at this point?
  • Reply 87 of 111
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by majorspunk





    Positive reinforcement is such a beautiful thing. Run along now.




    Perhaps if you really read what I wrote you would discover that I actually find it sad that noone discovered it before.
  • Reply 88 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    Mr. Butane is back!



    who was majorspunkmeyer before?
  • Reply 89 of 111
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    aapl
  • Reply 90 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    aapl



    was he bad?
  • Reply 91 of 111
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    was he bad?



    I think the Mods actually had to surround him with razor wire and require a pass if he wanted to move anywhere outside of a limited space. But don't worry, limiting his ability to move around didn't limit his ability to move around.



    Cheers

    Scott
  • Reply 92 of 111
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    I think the Mods actually had to surround him with razor wire and require a pass if he wanted to move anywhere outside of a limited space. But don't worry, limiting his ability to move around didn't limit his ability to move around.



    Cheers

    Scott




  • Reply 93 of 111
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    was he bad?



    He's been banned 2 or 3 times and just keeps on coming back with new accounts.
  • Reply 94 of 111
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    hehe.



    F'him! He can go hangout at the macaddict or spymac boards if he doesn't like it.
  • Reply 95 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    Perhaps if you really read what I wrote you would discover that I actually find it sad that noone discovered it before.





    LOL. Right.



    No one discovered it because that was the implicit imputation. This goes all the way to Giant's WWII Nazi occupation post on page 1. Bunge's followup post regards Syria only goes to support that that was the original intent of his thread. But isn't interesting that it was Giant that made this monumental "discovery". Particularly since he was the one that alluded to Nazi occupation in the first place.
  • Reply 96 of 111
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    hehe.



    F'him! He can go hangout at the macaddict or spymac boards if he doesn't like it.




    I don't know... Containment and sanctions clearly don't seem to be working. I, for one, am not content to leave the peace and safety of these boards up to the whims of a madman and a dictator.



    We need a pre-emptive strike, but against him and the other terrorists out there.



    Cheers

    Scott
  • Reply 97 of 111
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    who was majorspunkmeyer before?



    Why the meyer? Why not just majorspunk?
  • Reply 98 of 111
    ever see animal house? that rotc guy neidermeyer?

    and your a major, so i kind of assimilated the two of you.



    Quote:

    You're all worthless and weak! Now drop and give me twenty!





  • Reply 99 of 111
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    Hahaha. Your right. Its actually quite funny/sad noone discovered that before now.



    I noticed, I just stopped 'arguing' with him because it was pointless.
  • Reply 100 of 111
    smirclesmircle Posts: 1,035member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by majorspunk

    All the more reasons to say fsck them..



    Let Saddam pay them. Mass graves, complementary of the house.




    Actually, you could have had this without a $80Bn war, 4000 dead Iraqis (war on terror or war by terror?), looting of Iraqs cultural heritage and a country in ruins.



    But no, Uncle Sam *had* to dip his ugly greedy fingers into the oil wells...
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