It's not a matter of agreement. See, this is what makes politics so weird. There are so many people that flat-out refuse to actually research this stuff and then come up with or latch onto crazy ideas that have NOTHING to do with reality.
I don't see what's so hard about actually researching the history of current Iraq policy. All of the papers are out there. The books are at the libraries and book stores. Yet for some unknown reason so many people refuse to actually look into it.
Saying that this is a matter of opinion is nothing less than completely INSANE. INSANE. It's like saying that in your opinion there was never a president named Reagan. Opinions that blatantly ignore cold, hard fact are what we in the english speaking world call 'wrong,' which is defined as 'Not in conformity with fact or truth; incorrect or erroneous.'
I think it time to maybe revise your script. Your tirades and tangental excursions into straw-man arguments are getting boring.
I don't care to know what is the theoretical basis of "neoconservatism". Such theories, no matter how elaborate, never come close to resembling reality anyway. I care about practical applications. I care about results. And actions that lead to results. We've already seen the results of letting these terror groups and their sponsors go practically unchecked for these many years.. I knew this would happen because over and over again, history has shown this to be a predictable outcome. And now we're also beginning to see results when the opposite happens, and we do start to confront terror, its organizations, its sponsors..
That is where my comment fits in. I made a comment about the general shift in attitude that can be witnessed in regimes that earlier gave ardent support to terror, panArab radicalism, and fundamentalist Islam. I also referred to an LA times article that bares witness to this shift in attitude.. Now those are the facts. So why not try to address them. And try to address them in a somewhat civil manner - if you wish a reply.
actually, that's quite easy. people have lives. they do things other than read books about a country halfway across the world. they go out. they have fun. or they have jobs where they work. on an internet board they discuss their views of the world and politics, yet it's not their life. you take things much too seriously.
except no one said it was a matter of opinion. i believe the word used was position, not opinion. c'mon giant. for someone who harps so much on doing their research, that statement is just sloppy.
The problem with internet Boards: opinion, repeated as arguement replaces discernment and critical thought in the face of real conditions
I see its effects all the time, in here and in the world: authority that is born out of real experience and knowledge of some topic or discipline, is dismissed because of opinion and opinion alone . . . only often its called 'position'
but that's dialogue . . . i guess . . .unless people in power utilize such 'position' for their own real-space goals
So is Santa Claus real or not? I've never reached a concrete conclusion for this position. (Preferably, I'd like to get this resolved before the 25th of this month. Paperwork and all, you know... Can we get our heads together on this in the meantime?)
Why go to the voting booth informed when you can get all your info from 30 second propaganda video bytes? Or the fact that the whole country is already polarized as to what party they are going to vote for.
This war has a bad smell to it. The only good outcome I can see to it is that Saddam is out of power. But other than that, it's been a total mess.
I think alcimedes is forgetting that my first interaction with him consisted of him ridiculing me (smilies and all) for being the first person to point out to him that Saddam had no WMD. That's when I learned what AO was all about. One person wished death on me for saying it.
I guess if you believed the Santa excuses when they fist came out, and then believed the revisionist cover stories after X-day, then there are no facts that are going to sway you
most folks with mature critical insight would tell you that it just takes thinking next time daddy tells you some Santa Claus lies
What about the "Santa Claus genetic evidence" theory? Huh? What about that?! You're gonna tell me the prints on that milk glass belonged to just anybody, when they clearly were not traceable to any person with corresponding SS#? ...and don't even bring up the flying sleigh thermal trace satellite shots. DON'T EVEN GO THERE, SMARTY!
Yeah, those convincing Sleigh shots . . . remember when they were presented to the UN?
Seems incredible that X-day went on in the face of such blatant lying and yet now not only are we adults only smirking about the Santa Lies but some are even believing the new "Free-The-Elves" domino effect fairy tales
G-damnit, why do you always have to steer the topic off-course with this elf $hit?!?! Enough with the f*cking elves, already! Bringing that up is about as retarded as that neo-liberal Rudolph bull$hit the Times is always rehashing. I mean, really- was it really necessary to bring up Rudolph's oxycotton habit? That's just f*cking low- real f*cking low! Leave the boy alone, I say. Being the head of the reindeer team is damn stressful. He's done it for what, 80 years plus? I think he's earned a little respect by this time, no?
Maybe you guys can pool your cash and invest in shale oil.
Oh my did this make me laugh out loud.
I have to agree with giant on this one. Anyone that believes the U.S. is fighting in Iraq because we want to lure the Al Queda into a fight is grasping at straws. It has no basis in reality.
You all disagree with him not because he's wrong, but because he's curt. He's going straight to the point. It's not a question of him being right, or wrong, he's not either. He's just pointing you towards the facts. He's not responsible for them. He didn't think them up. He's just make them clear.
Comments
Originally posted by Outsider
alcimedes, secretly people are cheering for you.
Maybe you guys can pool your cash and invest in shale oil. Or go back to claiming that saddam has WMD. Whatever floats your boat.
Originally posted by giant
It's not a matter of agreement. See, this is what makes politics so weird. There are so many people that flat-out refuse to actually research this stuff and then come up with or latch onto crazy ideas that have NOTHING to do with reality.
I don't see what's so hard about actually researching the history of current Iraq policy. All of the papers are out there. The books are at the libraries and book stores. Yet for some unknown reason so many people refuse to actually look into it.
Saying that this is a matter of opinion is nothing less than completely INSANE. INSANE. It's like saying that in your opinion there was never a president named Reagan. Opinions that blatantly ignore cold, hard fact are what we in the english speaking world call 'wrong,' which is defined as 'Not in conformity with fact or truth; incorrect or erroneous.'
I think it time to maybe revise your script. Your tirades and tangental excursions into straw-man arguments are getting boring.
I don't care to know what is the theoretical basis of "neoconservatism". Such theories, no matter how elaborate, never come close to resembling reality anyway. I care about practical applications. I care about results. And actions that lead to results. We've already seen the results of letting these terror groups and their sponsors go practically unchecked for these many years.. I knew this would happen because over and over again, history has shown this to be a predictable outcome. And now we're also beginning to see results when the opposite happens, and we do start to confront terror, its organizations, its sponsors..
That is where my comment fits in. I made a comment about the general shift in attitude that can be witnessed in regimes that earlier gave ardent support to terror, panArab radicalism, and fundamentalist Islam. I also referred to an LA times article that bares witness to this shift in attitude.. Now those are the facts. So why not try to address them. And try to address them in a somewhat civil manner - if you wish a reply.
Originally posted by majorspunk
Such theories, no matter how elaborate, never come close to resembling reality anyway.
At least you recognize this.
Islam
Yeah, and we all know you are the expert on that.
Originally posted by giant
Maybe you guys can pool your cash and invest in shale oil. Or go back to claiming that saddam has WMD. Whatever floats your boat.
Weak. You just throwing this stuff out to see what sticks?
Originally posted by Outsider
Weak. You just throwing this stuff out to see what sticks?
Hey, you guys covered yourselves in it.
Originally posted by giant
expert
Originally posted by Randycat99
If you want to defend the irrational hate speech that mika has spewed against Islam, I consider that your right.
Originally posted by giant
hate
Originally posted by alcimedes
actually, that's quite easy. people have lives. they do things other than read books about a country halfway across the world. they go out. they have fun. or they have jobs where they work. on an internet board they discuss their views of the world and politics, yet it's not their life. you take things much too seriously.
except no one said it was a matter of opinion. i believe the word used was position, not opinion. c'mon giant. for someone who harps so much on doing their research, that statement is just sloppy.
The problem with internet Boards: opinion, repeated as arguement replaces discernment and critical thought in the face of real conditions
I see its effects all the time, in here and in the world: authority that is born out of real experience and knowledge of some topic or discipline, is dismissed because of opinion and opinion alone . . . only often its called 'position'
but that's dialogue . . . i guess . . .unless people in power utilize such 'position' for their own real-space goals
just a note: google Pax Americana
This war has a bad smell to it. The only good outcome I can see to it is that Saddam is out of power. But other than that, it's been a total mess.
Ah, the memories.
most folks with mature critical insight would tell you that it just takes thinking next time daddy tells you some Santa Claus lies
Seems incredible that X-day went on in the face of such blatant lying and yet now not only are we adults only smirking about the Santa Lies but some are even believing the new "Free-The-Elves" domino effect fairy tales
Originally posted by giant
Maybe you guys can pool your cash and invest in shale oil.
Oh my did this make me laugh out loud.
I have to agree with giant on this one. Anyone that believes the U.S. is fighting in Iraq because we want to lure the Al Queda into a fight is grasping at straws. It has no basis in reality.
You all disagree with him not because he's wrong, but because he's curt. He's going straight to the point. It's not a question of him being right, or wrong, he's not either. He's just pointing you towards the facts. He's not responsible for them. He didn't think them up. He's just make them clear.
Don't kill the messenger.