Is there going to be a 10.4?

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
We have heard nothing about 10.4 at all, it seems to have no name or any presence. So are we going to jump to 10.8 or is the next version going to be something like LXIV (64)?



Could 10.3 be the end of our 32 bit OS development and all new development is on a fully 64 bit native OS?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Unless Apple's gone bonkers again, 10.4 or 11.0 will be the next version.
  • Reply 2 of 39
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    I really doubt they've even started developing it yet, seeing as there is a lot of work yet to do to make Panther as stable as it needs to be for a wide array of users. I don't think there's any doubt it will be 32-bit. For one thing not that many apps and aspects of the system would benefit from 64-bit, and for another there are tens of millions of Macs out there that are 32-bit only and which constitute the VAST majority of Mac users.
  • Reply 3 of 39
    The first build of 10.2 didn't appear for several months after 10.1's release. The first builds of 10.3 didn't show up until WWDC, even longer since 10.2 was released.



    Just because there aren't reports on 10.4 doesn't mean it isn't on schedule for development.
  • Reply 4 of 39
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Moogs

    I really doubt they've even started developing it yet, seeing as there is a lot of work yet to do to make Panther as stable as it needs to be for a wide array of users. I don't think there's any doubt it will be 32-bit. For one thing not that many apps and aspects of the system would benefit from 64-bit, and for another there are tens of millions of Macs out there that are 32-bit only and which constitute the VAST majority of Mac users.



    of course devlopment has started on it. Apple has always had seperate trees for updates to the existing OS and the next generation.



    It's just....panther just was released and anything in the next major upgrade is probably very very primitive at this point. also, if apple came out and started talking about it, panther wouldn't be the new greatest thing anymore.



    be patient. may see something at MWSF. although at this point I'd really like to see Apple put some time into their iApps and AppleWorks
  • Reply 5 of 39
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    10.4 will be the showcase software at WWDC next Spring. The upcoming MacOS release always is.



    I was thinking that SanFran might give us a glimpse, but that would definitely take the shine off Panther. And Apple wants your $129.



    Now.
  • Reply 6 of 39
    asenasen Posts: 93member
    I'm not that familiar with what happened leading up to the WWDC. But during the Stevenote, he said something like:



    ...For all the developers in the audience, Jaguar is finished, for today we are going to preview the next major upgrade to Mac OS X - Panther.



    Was that the first time that Panther entered the public domain? I know it was the first demo of features such as Exposé, but did you guys already know all about the ongoing development program?
  • Reply 7 of 39
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Addison

    We have heard nothing about 10.4 at all, it seems to have no name or any presence. So are we going to jump to 10.8 or is the next version going to be something like LXIV (64)?



    Could 10.3 be the end of our 32 bit OS development and all new development is on a fully 64 bit native OS?




    I protest this shameful display of muddled techspeak.



    - with "OS" do you mean "kernel" or what?

    - what do you mean by "fully"?

    - why would they not keep the thing 32-bit processor compatible for many years to come?
  • Reply 8 of 39
    i feel that 10.3 may possibly be the point in apple's os development where the release cycle may begin to slow down. people griped when only a year after 10.1, 10.2 was another 130$, even more griped about panther. Panther is full of features, so many that i cannot think of what to add to it. Sadly, with all these features rushed out the door, many bugs came along for the ride. What i would like to see is an os cycle closer to 18-24 months vs 12-18. This way, features can be more planned out, bugs can get squashed, and people wont be complaining about the 130$ a year.

    Im not saying that we should be like windows (what will it be, 4 years of no new os releases when longhorn gets here?) but i would like a little more time in between, with the gap filled with more minor updates, perhaps a few with a couple new features, like the home on ipod.
  • Reply 9 of 39
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    I'm curious to see what 10.4 offers. Personally I think it's going to be a huge update for this reason.



    As Applenut said there are two seperate trees. I view 10.3 as the optimization tree. Most of the work seems to be beneath the surface. Jaguar had alot of new functions but needed new plumbing pipes and Panther provided those pipes. With "Tiger"(just guessing) I see Apple going back to adding featues and enabling new technologies. 10.5 will be the further polishing of those technoligies. Having a new OS every year is tough if you want to keep up with the jones' but I like of for perpetual forward progress. Panther is good enough now to make it extrememely difficult for Apple to sell a "ho hum" upgrade for 10.4.



    We've done lists about what we expect in 10.4 but I'll highlight some popular onces for me.



    Filesystem- It'd be nice to have a fs that acts like a mini database containing metadata. I think I should be able to search for any file on my computer like I search for a track in iTunes.



    Quartz Extreme 2- Please let's vanquish slow gui speeds forever!



    Workspaces- I know they have something similar now but true workspaces would be nice.
  • Reply 10 of 39
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    WWDC isn't in the Spring anymore, apparently. 2004's show will be held from June 28th until July 2nd. Though I don't doubt OS 10.4 will be the key attraction. Also, Apple not having started development yet is not related to whether or not they branch their code bases.



    What I'm saying is, in effect, I doubt they've branced yet. Probably sometime in early 2004 they will do so.
  • Reply 11 of 39
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ThunderPoit

    i feel that 10.3 may possibly be the point in apple's os development where the release cycle may begin to slow down. people griped when only a year after 10.1, 10.2 was another 130$, even more griped about panther. Panther is full of features, so many that i cannot think of what to add to it. Sadly, with all these features rushed out the door, many bugs came along for the ride. What i would like to see is an os cycle closer to 18-24 months vs 12-18. This way, features can be more planned out, bugs can get squashed, and people wont be complaining about the 130$ a year.



    I agree with this, 3 updates in as many years is probably as much as the Mac faithful can take which is why I think we may never see a 10.4. If I remember correctly there was never an 8.4 or 8.8 or 8.9. I am not sure how many new features we can see in future releases, perhaps my imagination isn't fertile enough. I can see further optimisations and bug fixes and support for new hardware but a full point next year, I am not convinced.



    Regarding the future, we know MS has Longhorn in development and I assume that processor enhancements will continue but at a lower rate than in the past as the ceilings are hit with each level of miniaturization. MS has pulled out a gap because the ineptitude of Motorola held Apple back. If we assume that MS/Intel/Amd and IBM keep pace in terms of technology then a fully 64 bit OS is one way to keep one step ahead of the opposition. If Apple don't produce a 64 bit OS MS will it is inevitable, who would argue that we should have stuck with 16 bit OS's



    64 bit is coming and the processors are here, the race is to develop an OS that can utilise it efficiently. Now I have no idea how easy it would be to re-compile existing applications to run on a 64 bit OSX but it obvious that with two years every Apple machine will have a 64 bit processor built in. Is there any reason why a 64 bit OSX could not run 32 bit OSX programmes allowing backward compatibility, none.
  • Reply 12 of 39
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    The first pictures of 10.3 to surface came out a day or two before WWDC. That tells me the pictures were probably leaked by someone with access to the WWDC computers.



    Also, the WWDC Panther build was VERY early in development. I would say it had been in development for 6 months or so. All the new stuff in the core OS had obviously just been got working, and the GUI was very underdeveloped.



    I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing with 10.4. Remember, a lot of the OS components now get developed and released seperately from the OS. Think Safari, X11, QuickTime, iApps etc. Apple doesn't put all their development eggs in one basket any more.



    Personally, I like the new Apple... very glasnost and perestroika.



    Barto
  • Reply 13 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    A new filesystem with metadata is a must. The searh bar in finder windows already relies on it in a sense, and it doesn't even exist yet. This tells me that it's got to show up.
  • Reply 14 of 39
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Addison

    I agree with this, 3 updates in as many years is probably as much as the Mac faithful can take which is why I think we may never see a 10.4. If I remember correctly there was never an 8.4 or 8.8 or 8.9. I am not sure how many new features we can see in future releases, perhaps my imagination isn't fertile enough. I can see further optimisations and bug fixes and support for new hardware but a full point next year, I am not convinced.



    Regarding the future, we know MS has Longhorn in development and I assume that processor enhancements will continue but at a lower rate than in the past as the ceilings are hit with each level of miniaturization. MS has pulled out a gap because the ineptitude of Motorola held Apple back. If we assume that MS/Intel/Amd and IBM keep pace in terms of technology then a fully 64 bit OS is one way to keep one step ahead of the opposition. If Apple don't produce a 64 bit OS MS will it is inevitable, who would argue that we should have stuck with 16 bit OS's



    64 bit is coming and the processors are here, the race is to develop an OS that can utilise it efficiently. Now I have no idea how easy it would be to re-compile existing applications to run on a 64 bit OSX but it obvious that with two years every Apple machine will have a 64 bit processor built in. Is there any reason why a 64 bit OSX could not run 32 bit OSX programmes allowing backward compatibility, none.




    Read the other 64-bit threads for detail but here's a summary: 64-bit CPU's alone do not give a great performance increase. It just allows double the sized numbers to be manipulated in around the same number of clock cycles. If an application isn't making use of huge numbers then it will see very little benefit from a recompile for 64-bit. This is the reason it is perfectly valid for Apple to leave OS X a 32-bit OS with 64-bit enhancements (like being able to to address more memory). The true performance benefits of the G5 comes from the CPU architecture and the bus architecture probably more-so than the fact that it is 64-bit.
  • Reply 15 of 39
    Steve might mention something about 10.4, but not do a preview of it like we saw with Panther at WWDC. I'm guessing it will be something like. "We are starting to develop Mac OS 10.4 and we're really excited about this. You'll see much more in the coming months." Rather than show everything that 10.4 will have, this gives them longer to develop it and squash the bugs.
  • Reply 16 of 39
    I agree with all of the above. A slower cycle makes sense for various reasons. I think 10.4 is for early 2005.
  • Reply 17 of 39
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Bah. Faster cycle means faster innovation. The current cycle seems to have served us all very well, and has done since its inception in 1996.



    Barto
  • Reply 18 of 39
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    And I have to admit, I don't understand the reasoning that $130/yr for *OPTIONAL* upgrades is worse than $130/two years when you *CAN'T GET UPGRADES IN THE MEANTIME*.



    I mean jeez.



    No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy the latest OS release. If you really can't control your buying impulses, try looking in the mirror, not blaming Apple for producing something that you (and many of the rest of us) want.
  • Reply 19 of 39
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,423member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    And I have to admit, I don't understand the reasoning that $130/yr for *OPTIONAL* upgrades is worse than $130/two years when you *CAN'T GET UPGRADES IN THE MEANTIME*.



    I mean jeez.



    No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy the latest OS release. If you really can't control your buying impulses, try looking in the mirror, not blaming Apple for producing something that you (and many of the rest of us) want.




    Excellent point Kickaha. All things considered I'd rather Apple keep pumping out the updates and let me decide when I'm had enough of the treadmill. As OSX matures even more it'll be harder and harder to entice users to upgrade so the new version will HAVE to be a good one.



    Although for some reason I do think 10.4 will not be here until MWSF 2005
  • Reply 20 of 39
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Filesystem- It'd be nice to have a fs that acts like a mini database containing metadata. I think I should be able to search for any file on my computer like I search for a track in iTunes.



    Quartz Extreme 2- Please let's vanquish slow gui speeds forever!



    Workspaces- I know they have something similar now but true workspaces would be nice.




    What about Piles? I remember in the months before Panther's release that everyone was talking about Piles, and it looked like a really neat idea. It's something I'd like to see in 10.4.
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