No. Its because the world outside formal logic have taught me that the question Existence ask is utter crap in grasping whats going on in peoples heads.
One example from my own research. 50% of all people will say that you have to obey the law and there is no excuse for not doing so. Yet 90% will say you can cross the street at red light when there is noone near you, its okay to fiddle with the taxes, unlocked bikes are fair game and/or something else. Every decitions we take is situated, not just derived from a moral or philosophical POV.
Experience can be misleading. Often what we think to be the best solution, well, it is not. Sometimes it even seems to work. A lot of people tell me that the world is not black and white. It's not, and that's the problem. When we act according to an ideal, we are changing things. When we act on premises of the moment, we don't change things. It's entropy. Herd mentality. Personally I'm going to do as much as I can to change things, because I think the gray world we live in could be a lot brighter.
To the people who say the thread is crap and nothing more, justify yourselves. I do not think the thread is crap. It's a yes/no question, and it needs a yes/no answer. If it's too much to consider, then don't dismiss the thread as crap, but be humble by the fact that it's too much to think about.
Not sure why everyone is so uptight in this thread.
I'd say the end doesn't justify the means, because principles and laws are applied multiple times whereas ends only occur once. Principles can be evaluated for their rightness/wrongness in general, but individual cases are usually more difficult to evaluate. Also principles and laws give moral authority, and permit you to pressure others to follow the same principles.
In some of the counter-examples that are easy to come up with, like "an evil genius has designed a trap so that if you kill one innocent person then 1 million others will be saved," those are usually one-time deals, and so whether the principle lasts is irrelevant. Usually in the real world, like in the legal system, the principle has to be applied repeatedly, and so the principle is more important than any single case.
Splinemodel, first you say the world is NOT black and white, that there ARE gray areas... and then later on in the same post you say that the question is a yes/no question and it requires a yes/no answer. You're contradicting yourself. Hypocritically, I might add.
I agree with BRussel that it's silly to think up hypothetical situations that would never come up in real life, and certainly wouldn't come up more than once. I also agree with bunge's view that you should focus on making the right decision and worry about the consequences later - assuming that if you make a good decision, you will get good consequences. And that follows a good and logical philosophy as well, that you should put honesty above all else. I once admitted to my professor that I missed a midterm test because I slept in, and he let me take a one-time retest for being honest about it. I don't expect to be rewarded for stuff like that but I figure if I'm honest about that, at least I have that going for me.
Comments
Is it "Do the ends justify the means in all cases?"
What ends? What means?
Originally posted by Anders
No. Its because the world outside formal logic have taught me that the question Existence ask is utter crap in grasping whats going on in peoples heads.
One example from my own research. 50% of all people will say that you have to obey the law and there is no excuse for not doing so. Yet 90% will say you can cross the street at red light when there is noone near you, its okay to fiddle with the taxes, unlocked bikes are fair game and/or something else. Every decitions we take is situated, not just derived from a moral or philosophical POV.
Experience can be misleading. Often what we think to be the best solution, well, it is not. Sometimes it even seems to work. A lot of people tell me that the world is not black and white. It's not, and that's the problem. When we act according to an ideal, we are changing things. When we act on premises of the moment, we don't change things. It's entropy. Herd mentality. Personally I'm going to do as much as I can to change things, because I think the gray world we live in could be a lot brighter.
To the people who say the thread is crap and nothing more, justify yourselves. I do not think the thread is crap. It's a yes/no question, and it needs a yes/no answer. If it's too much to consider, then don't dismiss the thread as crap, but be humble by the fact that it's too much to think about.
I'd say the end doesn't justify the means, because principles and laws are applied multiple times whereas ends only occur once. Principles can be evaluated for their rightness/wrongness in general, but individual cases are usually more difficult to evaluate. Also principles and laws give moral authority, and permit you to pressure others to follow the same principles.
In some of the counter-examples that are easy to come up with, like "an evil genius has designed a trap so that if you kill one innocent person then 1 million others will be saved," those are usually one-time deals, and so whether the principle lasts is irrelevant. Usually in the real world, like in the legal system, the principle has to be applied repeatedly, and so the principle is more important than any single case.
I agree with BRussel that it's silly to think up hypothetical situations that would never come up in real life, and certainly wouldn't come up more than once. I also agree with bunge's view that you should focus on making the right decision and worry about the consequences later - assuming that if you make a good decision, you will get good consequences. And that follows a good and logical philosophy as well, that you should put honesty above all else. I once admitted to my professor that I missed a midterm test because I slept in, and he let me take a one-time retest for being honest about it. I don't expect to be rewarded for stuff like that but I figure if I'm honest about that, at least I have that going for me.