She may want to lift the aluminum foil hat up so she can see.
c'mon Scott, if you want to shoot someone down down someone's argument, try to present something. Is that honestly too much to ask? Just because I linked to something that expresses doubts to the authenicity of a tape, your black and white vision automatically leads you to a certain place. Lets see some proof to validate your implied position, instead of kindergarten type kneejerk responses, or is that asking you too much?
Too late...I asked you first. Don't weasel out of it. Anyway, just go look at the pix in that link for starters and or watch the video . It's so faked it's pathetic!
Too late...I asked you first. Don't weasel out of it. Anyway, just go look at the pix in that link for starters and or watch the video . It's so faked it's pathetic!
I hope everyone realizes the effort that it takes to carry on discussions in these forums. You should all pay heed to Sammi Jo's chastisement to do research on your topics instead of arguing through half-baked assertions. I have followed Sammi Jo's lead for MY reply
Sammi Jo,
I looked at the frames and the guy in the "confession" video image at the top doesn't look at ALL like Osama Bin Laden (aka Usama Bin Laden)....total agreement with the top part. But seeing as how the video in-full wasn't available for download (for my own eyes to see) I followed one of the links....
is the one that caught my eye. Follow the link! I did.
It takes you to a text file purported to be the transcript of the video file in question.
But, as you are quick to point out that there are potential schemes behind everything, I looked at the originating domain hosting this text file. That domain is:
That site is called Focal Point Publications and it features the writings of a man named David Irving. Mister Irving writes an incredible amount of material, you should ply through his well-maintained and obviously HUGE website. I have no personal problems with Mister Irving, he has obviously spent a great deal of time developing his website.
I found his "legal battles" section interesting, as he has been involved in many lawsuits in regard to his apparent attempt to present a history of the Holocaust which diverges from the rest of mainstream historians. He apparently sued a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta after she referred to him as a "Holocaust denier". But here, you can read about David Irving's plight on his own webpage.
Seeing where you get your research is truly an eye-opener....let me look further into your library of knowledge Sammi.....
The first outlink from your original link (mentioned at the top of this post) leads to the site "Welfare State For The Wealthy", a website that tells us that:[list=1][*]TWA Flight 800 was brought down by a missile strike by the US Navy (sounds possible)[*]There was a cover-up in the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing (a second bomb was inside according to the site!! Why did we never hear this!!??)[*]The CIA was responsible for the Lockerbie crash of Pan Am 103 because they were running drugs through Syria and Iran. Boy, that would be some story if somebody could break that one! Wait, it was in TIME, why nothing further on that story?[*]Oswald's shot couldn't possibly have killed Kennedy. Huh, the computer recreation I saw last year made it look possible but you can make fish talk with computer animations.[/list=1]
Two truly great sites from you Sammi Jo!
From now on I'll know that your research truly has a foundation based in reality!
The one which is a genuine fake (!) was the tape "discovered" in Kandahar, Afghanistan on which "bin Laden" allegedly "confessed" to 9-11. The Pentagon's translation is ridiculed by Arabs, the face and body don't even look like the real bin Laden's (too heavy set and the eyes are way foo far apart), and the scrolling text which is supposed to represent what "bin Laden" was saying occurs during a two minute period where the man in question is either not talking, or eating! Nobody dared question its authenticity out of fear.
My post meant that Sammi Jo's sources (for this thread mind you, I'm nothing if not fair) were hardly as legitimate as she made them out to be. In fact, they were utter crap. One of them was far more fringe than the other. I thought the "aluminum foil cap" remarks by the others were a tad brusque until I followed SJ's advice and looked at her sources.
I no longer feel those people's remarks were unwarranted, they may resume their taunts, I withdraw my reservations. I would agree that truth is a moving target, and that conspiracies have occurred and continue to occur. BUT if everything is a conspiracy theory to you then you are someone I cannot trust to recognize the truth if you saw it (this "you" is the theoretical third person "you", btw).
She wouldn't know a pink snow bunny if it walked up and bit her on the ass. My apologies to Berkely Breathed.
I hope everyone realizes the effort that it takes to carry on discussions in these forums. You should all pay heed to Sammi Jo's chastisement to do research on your topics instead of arguing through half-baked assertions. I have followed Sammi Jo's lead for MY reply
blah blah blah....
Two truly great sites from you Sammi Jo!
From now on I'll know that your research truly has a foundation based in reality!
Your skepticism is to be commended...but only if it is even handed. What a shame your skepticism is limited to "unofficial" sources, and material from official sources that is so blatantly false, manipulated or absurd is acknowledged and treated as truth without so much as a passing thought. Maybe you are scared of being deemed unpatriotic or similar....which is a tactic the administration is milking like fury. Seen any of Saddam Hussein's 8000-mile range drones lately? If it was the likes of "The General" etc. who were responsible for calling the shots in 1776...then British rule under (another tyrant called George), and others, would have lasted a whole lot longer.
I looked at the frames and the guy in the "confession" video image at the top doesn't look at ALL like Osama Bin Laden (aka Usama Bin Laden)....total agreement with the top part. But seeing as how the video in-full wasn't available for download (for my own eyes to see) I followed one of the links....
It looks at lot like a fake, for a bunch of reasons, but I'm totally open to being wrong on this.
I'm curious what everyone thinks. Photos can be deceiving sometimes and I haven't bothered to really look frame by frame by frame and compare it with other images. According to these images, though, the features just don't match up at all.
The following statement has some other things (not the main ones why I think it's a fake, though they are interesting), but I'm not arab so I don't know anything about it. Maybe I'll ask the arab relatives I'm going out with tomorrow night. They're not muslim, though, so they might not know.
Probably the most famous Holocaust denier. The Atlantic had a big thing on him and his issues a couple years ago that summed it up pretty well.
I haven't thought about him in a while, but if I remember correctly he was a real crackpot. You know, there are grays in every field, but he's definitely the example of the extreme.
[B]I hope everyone realizes the effort that it takes to carry on discussions in these forums. You should all pay heed to Sammi Jo's chastisement to do research on your topics instead of arguing through half-baked assertions. I have followed Sammi Jo's lead for MY reply
Sammi Jo,
...snip....blah....
That site is called Focal Point Publications and it features the writings of a man named David Irving. Mister Irving writes an incredible amount of material, you should ply through his well-maintained and obviously HUGE website. I have no personal problems with Mister Irving, he has obviously spent a great deal of time developing his website.
I found his "legal battles" section interesting, as he has been involved in many lawsuits in regard to his apparent attempt to present a history of the Holocaust which diverges from the rest of mainstream historians. He apparently sued a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta after she referred to him as a "Holocaust denier". But here, you can read about David Irving's plight on his own webpage.
He's not the only holocaust denier btw. The Holocaust happened...so much history has been written about it, and there is so much evidence to support that it happened. It is always promoted as the mass murder of Jews, period. Just go to the Simon Weisenthal Center's website, and enter "Jews" or "Jewish" into their search engine: hundreds of results in all sections are returned, obviously. Now try entering "gays" or "honosexuals" ...and what do you get? a big round Zero references. Or Romany...same thing...Or Gypsies...a paltry two (unrelated) references in the "museum of tolerance" store.
Hitler murdered millions of Gypsies and homosexuals in the Holocaust...and here's the Simon Weisenthat Center,,,the chief agency involved in the importance of "never forgetting the holocaust"...guilty here of denial of a large portion of the holocaust...by bland omission. Perhaps gypsies and gays are lesser people, according to the SWC? Most people (99%+ of the population?) who acknowledge the Holocaust are not aware that entire minority populations perished alongside the Jews. The "Holocaust Denial Industry" is far, far more than what is popularly perceived or promoted.
It looks at lot like a fake, for a bunch of reasons, but I'm totally open to being wrong on this.
I'm curious what everyone thinks. Photos can be deceiving sometimes and I haven't bothered to really look frame by frame by frame and compare it with other images. According to these images, though, the features just don't match up at all.
I didn't deny the plausibility of the "fat Usama" vid being a fabrication. I also don't deny the possibility that any of the conspiracy theories listed in the second site cited could be true. I also believe that there are active conspiracies happening within our current government, and I believe most of them are for our benefit....but I could be wrong.
Above all else, I don't believe that ALL of them can be conspiracies. Odds are against you on that - ask any statistician.
But now you add a sexist wrinkle to the mix! Gee whiz you are so out of control this week....spotting conspiracy theories here, blaming us for having penises there....
oh the thirst for martyrdom which shows itself in so many women, particularly under the higher forms of civilization
Edit: Those aren't the same two guys in those pictures, but I sure would love to see the video from a third party...not someone attached to either of Sammi's two "sources". I'd like to see it for myself with a trusted translator sitting next to me. But mostly I'd like a chocolate milkshake right now.
I didn't deny the plausibility of the "fat Usama" vid being a fabrication. I also don't deny the possibility that any of the conspiracy theories listed in the second site cited could be true. I also believe that there are active conspiracies happening within our current government, and I believe most of them are for our benefit....but I could be wrong.
I have more respect tor the American people. Tell the people the truth and everyone comes out far ahead.
Quote:
Above all else, I don't believe that ALL of them can be conspiracies. Odds are against you on that - ask any statistician.
Hang on a second. I only linked to the "fat Osama" video and all its inconsistencies. What other "conspiracy" stuff are you referring to?
Quote:
But now you add a sexist wrinkle to the mix! Gee whiz you are so out of control this week....spotting conspiracy theories here, blaming us for having penises there....
?
Quote:
oh the thirst for martyrdom which shows itself in so many women, particularly under the higher forms of civilization
Edit:
Quote:
Those aren't the same two guys in those pictures, but I sure would love to see the video from a third party...not someone attached to either of Sammi's two "sources". I'd like to see it for myself with a trusted translator sitting next to me. But mostly I'd like a chocolate milkshake right now. [/B]
A significant portion of the government's case, and the public percepton in bin Laden's guilt in 9-11 rests on the authenticity of this tape. The fact that bin Laden is implicated in numerous terror attacks before 9-11 should never be the deciding factor in his guilt/innocence (re. 9-11), in the absence of corroborating evidence.
If bin Laden was actually caught alive and brought to trial, (presumably in the United States) to face mass murder charges, what evidence has the prosecution got, and why haven't we heard about it? Should this man/criminal/terrorist get a fair trial, in public, with all the evidence laid out on the table...or do we get into the Taliban/Soviet/Saddam etc territory of secret trials, kangaroo courts and military "tribunals" etc., where "national security concerns" are used as an excuse to disallow justice and fairness?
Your images clinch it (re the fake tape issue), but does not prove that Osama is alive. On the otherhand it does make me wonder why they would want to keep him alive ? ( as a universal Bogey man perhaps )
BTW : Just for levity.
Interesting noses.
Compare the noses in your close ups to the noses of these two felonious characters..
I followed your link to "the video", which is actually still-frames from a video, with commentary that points to inconsistencies with the video. All of this is hosted on your conspiracy site, "Welfare Estate".
The first link on that page leads to an article that claims that the German Press is investigating inconsistencies with the video in question. The article lists the reporter's by line, but does not tell us where this "news report" originated.
At the top of this article is a link from where this story was borrowed (by the Welfare Estate site)....the story is attributed to the website of David Irving...a person whom mainstream historians have referred to as a "Holocaust Denier"; a Nazi apologist. YOU can go to his site and make your own decisions on that topic.
So.
Within two clicks from your original link I found myself on a website of a person that many people believe to be BEYOND the fringe.
Doesn't say a lot about your ability to provide good source material.
I have more than successfully completed this discussion, even-handedly mind you.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
She may want to lift the aluminum foil hat up so she can see.
c'mon Scott, if you want to shoot someone down down someone's argument, try to present something. Is that honestly too much to ask? Just because I linked to something that expresses doubts to the authenicity of a tape, your black and white vision automatically leads you to a certain place. Lets see some proof to validate your implied position, instead of kindergarten type kneejerk responses, or is that asking you too much?
Originally posted by Scott
You go first.
Too late...I asked you first. Don't weasel out of it. Anyway, just go look at the pix in that link for starters and or watch the video . It's so faked it's pathetic!
I am still waiting......
Originally posted by sammi jo
Too late...I asked you first. Don't weasel out of it. Anyway, just go look at the pix in that link for starters and or watch the video . It's so faked it's pathetic!
I am still waiting......
Boy, aluminum foil hat is right!
-BBVD
Sammi Jo,
I looked at the frames and the guy in the "confession" video image at the top doesn't look at ALL like Osama Bin Laden (aka Usama Bin Laden)....total agreement with the top part. But seeing as how the video in-full wasn't available for download (for my own eyes to see) I followed one of the links....
The one that says:
German Press investigators found that the White House's translation of the "confession" video was not only inaccurate, but even "manipulative".
is the one that caught my eye. Follow the link! I did.
It takes you to a text file purported to be the transcript of the video file in question.
But, as you are quick to point out that there are potential schemes behind everything, I looked at the originating domain hosting this text file. That domain is:
http://www.fpp.co.uk
That site is called Focal Point Publications and it features the writings of a man named David Irving. Mister Irving writes an incredible amount of material, you should ply through his well-maintained and obviously HUGE website. I have no personal problems with Mister Irving, he has obviously spent a great deal of time developing his website.
I found his "legal battles" section interesting, as he has been involved in many lawsuits in regard to his apparent attempt to present a history of the Holocaust which diverges from the rest of mainstream historians. He apparently sued a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta after she referred to him as a "Holocaust denier". But here, you can read about David Irving's plight on his own webpage.
http://www.focal.org/online/DTel/120400e.html
Here's another great link from your source, David Irving:
Real History and the Holocaust Industry.
Wow!
Seeing where you get your research is truly an eye-opener....let me look further into your library of knowledge Sammi.....
The first outlink from your original link (mentioned at the top of this post) leads to the site "Welfare State For The Wealthy", a website that tells us that:[list=1][*]TWA Flight 800 was brought down by a missile strike by the US Navy (sounds possible)[*]There was a cover-up in the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing (a second bomb was inside according to the site!! Why did we never hear this!!??)[*]The CIA was responsible for the Lockerbie crash of Pan Am 103 because they were running drugs through Syria and Iran. Boy, that would be some story if somebody could break that one! Wait, it was in TIME, why nothing further on that story?[*]Oswald's shot couldn't possibly have killed Kennedy. Huh, the computer recreation I saw last year made it look possible but you can make fish talk with computer animations.[/list=1]
Two truly great sites from you Sammi Jo!
From now on I'll know that your research truly has a foundation based in reality!
I wonder if anyone has ever done a PhD on the subject.
Sammi's sites are fun to follow...No wonder he comes up with some really.
Aqua
Originally posted by drewprops
she
Damm, I keep confuzing her with a guy I know called Sammi.
But what the F......no one should have gender specific allocations in Cyberspace.
I just wanted to follow the stream of Sammi Jo's sources to the fountainhead. Boy was I surprised when I got there.
Originally posted by sammi jo
Who knows?
The one which is a genuine fake (!) was the tape "discovered" in Kandahar, Afghanistan on which "bin Laden" allegedly "confessed" to 9-11. The Pentagon's translation is ridiculed by Arabs, the face and body don't even look like the real bin Laden's (too heavy set and the eyes are way foo far apart), and the scrolling text which is supposed to represent what "bin Laden" was saying occurs during a two minute period where the man in question is either not talking, or eating! Nobody dared question its authenticity out of fear.
http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/faketape/
actually i saw the tape. I think you just need a smack.
(kinda like a stuck record, hit it, and it stops skipping....)
Originally posted by segovius
It depends.
What did yours mean ?
My post meant that Sammi Jo's sources (for this thread mind you, I'm nothing if not fair) were hardly as legitimate as she made them out to be. In fact, they were utter crap. One of them was far more fringe than the other. I thought the "aluminum foil cap" remarks by the others were a tad brusque until I followed SJ's advice and looked at her sources.
I no longer feel those people's remarks were unwarranted, they may resume their taunts, I withdraw my reservations. I would agree that truth is a moving target, and that conspiracies have occurred and continue to occur. BUT if everything is a conspiracy theory to you then you are someone I cannot trust to recognize the truth if you saw it (this "you" is the theoretical third person "you", btw).
She wouldn't know a pink snow bunny if it walked up and bit her on the ass. My apologies to Berkely Breathed.
Originally posted by drewprops
I hope everyone realizes the effort that it takes to carry on discussions in these forums. You should all pay heed to Sammi Jo's chastisement to do research on your topics instead of arguing through half-baked assertions. I have followed Sammi Jo's lead for MY reply
blah blah blah....
Two truly great sites from you Sammi Jo!
From now on I'll know that your research truly has a foundation based in reality!
Your skepticism is to be commended...but only if it is even handed. What a shame your skepticism is limited to "unofficial" sources, and material from official sources that is so blatantly false, manipulated or absurd is acknowledged and treated as truth without so much as a passing thought. Maybe you are scared of being deemed unpatriotic or similar....which is a tactic the administration is milking like fury. Seen any of Saddam Hussein's 8000-mile range drones lately? If it was the likes of "The General" etc. who were responsible for calling the shots in 1776...then British rule under (another tyrant called George), and others, would have lasted a whole lot longer.
What luck for rules that men do not think....
so apt today.
you guys! sheesh
Originally posted by drewprops
I looked at the frames and the guy in the "confession" video image at the top doesn't look at ALL like Osama Bin Laden (aka Usama Bin Laden)....total agreement with the top part. But seeing as how the video in-full wasn't available for download (for my own eyes to see) I followed one of the links....
You can view the video here:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret...den.videotape/
It looks at lot like a fake, for a bunch of reasons, but I'm totally open to being wrong on this.
I'm curious what everyone thinks. Photos can be deceiving sometimes and I haven't bothered to really look frame by frame by frame and compare it with other images. According to these images, though, the features just don't match up at all.
The following statement has some other things (not the main ones why I think it's a fake, though they are interesting), but I'm not arab so I don't know anything about it. Maybe I'll ask the arab relatives I'm going out with tomorrow night. They're not muslim, though, so they might not know.
http://www.ips.org.pk/mediaprogram/a...samavideo.html
David Irving.
Probably the most famous Holocaust denier. The Atlantic had a big thing on him and his issues a couple years ago that summed it up pretty well.
I haven't thought about him in a while, but if I remember correctly he was a real crackpot. You know, there are grays in every field, but he's definitely the example of the extreme.
Originally posted by drewprops
[B]I hope everyone realizes the effort that it takes to carry on discussions in these forums. You should all pay heed to Sammi Jo's chastisement to do research on your topics instead of arguing through half-baked assertions. I have followed Sammi Jo's lead for MY reply
Sammi Jo,
...snip....blah....
That site is called Focal Point Publications and it features the writings of a man named David Irving. Mister Irving writes an incredible amount of material, you should ply through his well-maintained and obviously HUGE website. I have no personal problems with Mister Irving, he has obviously spent a great deal of time developing his website.
I found his "legal battles" section interesting, as he has been involved in many lawsuits in regard to his apparent attempt to present a history of the Holocaust which diverges from the rest of mainstream historians. He apparently sued a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta after she referred to him as a "Holocaust denier". But here, you can read about David Irving's plight on his own webpage.
http://www.focal.org/online/DTel/120400e.html
Here's another great link from your source, David Irving:
Real History and the Holocaust Industry.
He's not the only holocaust denier btw. The Holocaust happened...so much history has been written about it, and there is so much evidence to support that it happened. It is always promoted as the mass murder of Jews, period. Just go to the Simon Weisenthal Center's website, and enter "Jews" or "Jewish" into their search engine: hundreds of results in all sections are returned, obviously. Now try entering "gays" or "honosexuals" ...and what do you get? a big round Zero references. Or Romany...same thing...Or Gypsies...a paltry two (unrelated) references in the "museum of tolerance" store.
Hitler murdered millions of Gypsies and homosexuals in the Holocaust...and here's the Simon Weisenthat Center,,,the chief agency involved in the importance of "never forgetting the holocaust"...guilty here of denial of a large portion of the holocaust...by bland omission. Perhaps gypsies and gays are lesser people, according to the SWC? Most people (99%+ of the population?) who acknowledge the Holocaust are not aware that entire minority populations perished alongside the Jews. The "Holocaust Denial Industry" is far, far more than what is popularly perceived or promoted.
Originally posted by giant
It looks at lot like a fake, for a bunch of reasons, but I'm totally open to being wrong on this.
I'm curious what everyone thinks. Photos can be deceiving sometimes and I haven't bothered to really look frame by frame by frame and compare it with other images. According to these images, though, the features just don't match up at all.
I think you're right. Look at the nose.....
I didn't deny the plausibility of the "fat Usama" vid being a fabrication. I also don't deny the possibility that any of the conspiracy theories listed in the second site cited could be true. I also believe that there are active conspiracies happening within our current government, and I believe most of them are for our benefit....but I could be wrong.
Above all else, I don't believe that ALL of them can be conspiracies. Odds are against you on that - ask any statistician.
But now you add a sexist wrinkle to the mix! Gee whiz you are so out of control this week....spotting conspiracy theories here, blaming us for having penises there....
oh the thirst for martyrdom which shows itself in so many women, particularly under the higher forms of civilization
Edit: Those aren't the same two guys in those pictures, but I sure would love to see the video from a third party...not someone attached to either of Sammi's two "sources". I'd like to see it for myself with a trusted translator sitting next to me. But mostly I'd like a chocolate milkshake right now.
Originally posted by drewprops
Hey Sammi,
I didn't deny the plausibility of the "fat Usama" vid being a fabrication. I also don't deny the possibility that any of the conspiracy theories listed in the second site cited could be true. I also believe that there are active conspiracies happening within our current government, and I believe most of them are for our benefit....but I could be wrong.
I have more respect tor the American people. Tell the people the truth and everyone comes out far ahead.
Quote:
Above all else, I don't believe that ALL of them can be conspiracies. Odds are against you on that - ask any statistician.
Hang on a second. I only linked to the "fat Osama" video and all its inconsistencies. What other "conspiracy" stuff are you referring to?
Quote:
But now you add a sexist wrinkle to the mix! Gee whiz you are so out of control this week....spotting conspiracy theories here, blaming us for having penises there....
?
Quote:
oh the thirst for martyrdom which shows itself in so many women, particularly under the higher forms of civilization
Edit:
Those aren't the same two guys in those pictures, but I sure would love to see the video from a third party...not someone attached to either of Sammi's two "sources". I'd like to see it for myself with a trusted translator sitting next to me. But mostly I'd like a chocolate milkshake right now. [/B]
A significant portion of the government's case, and the public percepton in bin Laden's guilt in 9-11 rests on the authenticity of this tape. The fact that bin Laden is implicated in numerous terror attacks before 9-11 should never be the deciding factor in his guilt/innocence (re. 9-11), in the absence of corroborating evidence.
If bin Laden was actually caught alive and brought to trial, (presumably in the United States) to face mass murder charges, what evidence has the prosecution got, and why haven't we heard about it? Should this man/criminal/terrorist get a fair trial, in public, with all the evidence laid out on the table...or do we get into the Taliban/Soviet/Saddam etc territory of secret trials, kangaroo courts and military "tribunals" etc., where "national security concerns" are used as an excuse to disallow justice and fairness?
Originally posted by drewprops
but I sure would love to see the video from a third party
You can see the video at the cnn link in my post. Hit "play video" in the right column.
Your images clinch it (re the fake tape issue), but does not prove that Osama is alive. On the otherhand it does make me wonder why they would want to keep him alive ? ( as a universal Bogey man perhaps )
BTW : Just for levity.
Interesting noses.
Compare the noses in your close ups to the noses of these two felonious characters..
Interesting coincidence wouldn't you say.. ?
8)
Sammi Jo O, I'll explain again, more thoroughly.
I followed your link to "the video", which is actually still-frames from a video, with commentary that points to inconsistencies with the video. All of this is hosted on your conspiracy site, "Welfare Estate".
The first link on that page leads to an article that claims that the German Press is investigating inconsistencies with the video in question. The article lists the reporter's by line, but does not tell us where this "news report" originated.
At the top of this article is a link from where this story was borrowed (by the Welfare Estate site)....the story is attributed to the website of David Irving...a person whom mainstream historians have referred to as a "Holocaust Denier"; a Nazi apologist. YOU can go to his site and make your own decisions on that topic.
So.
Within two clicks from your original link I found myself on a website of a person that many people believe to be BEYOND the fringe.
Doesn't say a lot about your ability to provide good source material.
I have more than successfully completed this discussion, even-handedly mind you.
I even quoted some H.L.Mencken back at you.....
fin