How is that spyware? Where does this info get sent to and who's profiting from it? That's the point of spyware.
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
Software doesn't have to send stuff to a set destination via a set physical layer to be spyware. Merely having undisclosed, hidden info stored in a file that is seemingly transmitted at your own accord via sneakernet is qualification for spyware. In the Microsoft Office example, it is blatantly obvous that private info you don't necessarily want passed around will be passed around upon distribution of a document.
Software doesn't have to send stuff to a set destination via a set physical layer to be spyware. Merely having undisclosed, hidden info stored in a file that is seemingly transmitted at your own accord via sneakernet is qualification for spyware. In the Microsoft Office example, it is blatantly obvous that private info you don't necessarily want passed around will be passed around upon distribution of a document.
I don't disagree with you on that. I was just trying to get beyond the "what does 'spyware' mean" issue, and on to the real problem in this case. Call it "spyware" or not, it's badly designed software that I would tell anyone to avoid using.
I, for one, and mystified that the corporate world isn't up in arms over this problem in Office. I can't imagine they don't know about it.
everything under the "spyware" category was a keystroke logger. that's not spyware. that's an application that can be misused, but it's no Brilliant Digital or GAIN (gator).
keystroke loggers and trojan horses ≠ spyware.
i still have yet to see proof of spyware on macs, anyone have more info an the limewire spyware?
Spyware is computer software that aids in gathering information about a person or organization without their knowledge. The most common use of spyware is to gather information about the user and relay it to advertisers or other interested parties, but it has been used by law enforcement to collect evidence against criminal suspects.
Spyware can be installed on a computer by a virus, by an e-mail trojan such as the United States FBI's Magic Lantern program, or it may be hidden within the otherwise-innocuous installation of a new program. Data collecting programs installed with the user's knowledge are not, properly speaking, spyware, if the user fully understands what data is being collected and with whom it is being shared.
Interesting, eh? It fits my definition of 'spyware' like a glove.
So, a trojan, which sends bleeps to a mothership, implanted into a new installation of OpenSSL is spyware according to this definition...the logical definition.
An app that creates documents where deleted content is really not deleted, where your personal info is stored without your knowledge and where unique identifiers are assigned without your knowledge is a piece of spyware.
Adware like Gator/Claria often function as spyware, but the two are not joined at the hip. Remember that service that put a toolbar with ads on your desktop, and paid you for it? They didn't collect your personal info surreptitiously, so their software was adware, but not spyware.
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
I didn't "turn on" anything. As I noted, I don't use Word.
You are correct, though, that the deleted-but-still-there text problem is caused by fast saves. The problem is that many people use Word for sensitive information and DO have fast save turned on. There is no warning when turning on fast save about this problem. (Although it is mentioned in Word's help, how many people go out of their way to look there?)
Turning off fast save also does not address any of the other issues brought up by Eugene. And that is why I said that the only 100% solution is not to use MS Word. (And that's without getting into whether most people who use Word are best served by doing so.)
Interesting, eh? It fits my definition of 'spyware' like a glove.
So, a trojan, which sends bleeps to a mothership, implanted into a new installation of OpenSSL is spyware according to this definition...the logical definition.
An app that creates documents where deleted content is really not deleted, where your personal info is stored without your knowledge and where unique identifiers are assigned without your knowledge is a piece of spyware.
Adware like Gator/Claria often function as spyware, but the two are not joined at the hip. Remember that service that put a toolbar with ads on your desktop, and paid you for it? They didn't collect your personal info surreptitiously, so their software was adware, but not spyware.
P.S. No, I did not directly contribute to these definitions.
EDIT: I remember what it was called now. Remember AllAdvantage?
We have differing definitions. You're playing with semantics. In the sense the original poster is asking, spyware is not a problem on the Mac. In the sense that security is a problem on every platform, it is. Let's leave it at that.
We have differing definitions. You're playing with semantics. In the sense the original poster is asking, spyware is not a problem on the Mac. In the sense that security is a problem on every platform, it is. Let's leave it at that.
Sheesh. I'm not playing with semantics. I'm using the most logical definition of the terms "spyware" and "adware." I was pleasantly surprised to find Wikipedia's definitions so closely matched with mine.
The question is "how do you know for sure?" Stealth is the name of the game. How do you know Acrobat Reader doesn't send something back to Adobe when it checks for updates and language kits? What about the internet enabled installers that Unsanity created? RealOne perhaps? Any software from smaller (one-man) developers who might be in a financial slump?
Sheesh. I'm not playing with semantics. I'm using the most logical definition of the terms "spyware" and "adware." I was pleasantly surprised to find Wikipedia's definitions so closely matched with mine.
So you found a definition that matches up with what you believe. Big whoop. I can find a definition that matches up with what I believe. And I'm glad that you can surprise yourself so easily.
Quote:
The question is "how do you know for sure?" Stealth is the name of the game. How do you know Acrobat Reader doesn't send something back to Adobe when it checks for updates and language kits? What about the internet enabled installers that Unsanity created? RealOne perhaps? Any software from smaller (one-man) developers who might be in a financial slump?
LittleSnitch and I turn off automatic checking for updates.
So you found a definition that matches up with what you believe. Big whoop. I can find a definition that matches up with what I believe. And I'm glad that you can surprise yourself so easily.
LittleSnitch and I turn off automatic checking for updates.
Wikipedia isn't exactly random source, it was the one stop I made before posting a third-party definition. Failing that, I would have tried hyperdictionary.com, though that doesn't seem to have entries for either 'adware' or 'spyware.'
You found a Mac app designed to combat non-existent spyware? How useless!
"Even statistics information about your computer may be sent this way."
"Trojan horses - i.e. programs transmitting unconsciously data stored on your computer - can be detected by Little Snitch and prevented on the transmission of data."
Wikipedia isn't exactly random source, it was the one stop I made before posting a third-party definition. Failing that, I would have tried hyperdictionary.com, though that doesn't seem to have entries for either 'adware' or 'spyware.'
You found a Mac app designed to combat non-existent spyware? How useless!
"Even statistics information about your computer may be sent this way."
"Trojan horses - i.e. programs transmitting unconsciously data stored on your computer - can be detected by Little Snitch and prevented on the transmission of data."
"Prevents applications from 'phoning home.'"
That's marketing copy and applications phoning home does not constitute spyware.
while people do write more sneaky apps on windows, thats not the problem, the problem is the o say 60% of windows users who choose to stay ignorant, i cant count the times that my common sence advice of 3-point protection falls on def ears, heres my attack plan that i recomend to all who ask
1: first and most impotantly, RUN A GOOD ANTIVIRUS and for the love of god, update it AT LEAST 2 times a week
2: run a software firewall and turn on the windows firewall (windows firewall is weak but it does stop a few script-kiddys) the 3rd party firewall will show you any outgoing and incomeing connections, if spyware calls out, nuke its conection.
3: run spybot s&d and lavasoft's ad-aware to hunt and kill the spy apps
and my next sentense to people about security,
the best security blanket going is osx, if u r realy that scared, or intimedated by windows security, buy an imac
Times up for today's session, Eugene. You're probably surprised that it even was a session, I know. But today was a naturalistic observation. Observing your behavior while you don't know about it to see how you react. From our last 2 sessions, this is what I've gleaned:
1: first and most impotantly, RUN A GOOD ANTIVIRUS and for the love of god, update it AT LEAST 2 times a week
2: run a software firewall and turn on the windows firewall (windows firewall is weak but it does stop a few script-kiddys) the 3rd party firewall will show you any outgoing and incomeing connections, if spyware calls out, nuke its conection.
3: run spybot s&d and lavasoft's ad-aware to hunt and kill the spy apps
America's Army has Spyware called Punkbuster and It is out for the mac. I have not installed it but I read comments about it and the EULA.
You have to be kidding me. Punkbuster is cheat-prevention software, and can be easily uninstalled.
BTW, you could call SecurityAgent and Login Window spyware...but guess what! IT'S NOT! Just because it doesn't show itself in the dock doesn't mean that there's some kind of conspiracy going on.
never heard of that site. Honestly thats been my standard advice for like 2 years.
Never heard the term 'Genius Bar 'till I went to an Apple store like 2 years ago, just a clever way to say 19-22 year old college guys (and girls) who know apple inside-out-up-side-down
Comments
Originally posted by torifile
How is that spyware? Where does this info get sent to and who's profiting from it? That's the point of spyware.
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
Originally posted by jginsbu
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
Software doesn't have to send stuff to a set destination via a set physical layer to be spyware. Merely having undisclosed, hidden info stored in a file that is seemingly transmitted at your own accord via sneakernet is qualification for spyware. In the Microsoft Office example, it is blatantly obvous that private info you don't necessarily want passed around will be passed around upon distribution of a document.
Originally posted by Eugene
Software doesn't have to send stuff to a set destination via a set physical layer to be spyware. Merely having undisclosed, hidden info stored in a file that is seemingly transmitted at your own accord via sneakernet is qualification for spyware. In the Microsoft Office example, it is blatantly obvous that private info you don't necessarily want passed around will be passed around upon distribution of a document.
I don't disagree with you on that. I was just trying to get beyond the "what does 'spyware' mean" issue, and on to the real problem in this case. Call it "spyware" or not, it's badly designed software that I would tell anyone to avoid using.
I, for one, and mystified that the corporate world isn't up in arms over this problem in Office. I can't imagine they don't know about it.
everything under the "spyware" category was a keystroke logger. that's not spyware. that's an application that can be misused, but it's no Brilliant Digital or GAIN (gator).
keystroke loggers and trojan horses ≠ spyware.
i still have yet to see proof of spyware on macs, anyone have more info an the limewire spyware?
Originally posted by alcimedes
keystroke loggers and trojan horses ≠ spyware.
i still have yet to see proof of spyware on macs, anyone have more info an the limewire spyware?
Your definition of spyware is narrow like torifile's. Adware and spyware are two related, but separate things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
Spyware is computer software that aids in gathering information about a person or organization without their knowledge. The most common use of spyware is to gather information about the user and relay it to advertisers or other interested parties, but it has been used by law enforcement to collect evidence against criminal suspects.
Spyware can be installed on a computer by a virus, by an e-mail trojan such as the United States FBI's Magic Lantern program, or it may be hidden within the otherwise-innocuous installation of a new program. Data collecting programs installed with the user's knowledge are not, properly speaking, spyware, if the user fully understands what data is being collected and with whom it is being shared.
Interesting, eh? It fits my definition of 'spyware' like a glove.
So, a trojan, which sends bleeps to a mothership, implanted into a new installation of OpenSSL is spyware according to this definition...the logical definition.
An app that creates documents where deleted content is really not deleted, where your personal info is stored without your knowledge and where unique identifiers are assigned without your knowledge is a piece of spyware.
Adware like Gator/Claria often function as spyware, but the two are not joined at the hip. Remember that service that put a toolbar with ads on your desktop, and paid you for it? They didn't collect your personal info surreptitiously, so their software was adware, but not spyware.
Definition of adware:
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware
Can we please stop now?
P.S. No, I did not directly contribute to these definitions.
EDIT: I remember what it was called now. Remember AllAdvantage?
Originally posted by jginsbu
It may not be spyware. But it is a serious security and privacy issue. Think about all the places people send MS Word documents, and the sort of info that they may have "deleted" from the doc, but is still lurking in there somewhere? The real problem here is that supposedly "deleted" information is still resident in the file, and easily retrievable.
Maybe people shouldn't be using Word for sensitive docs, but they do it all the time. The only 100% solution is just not to use Word. I don't, except as a glorified .doc to .rtf converter.
Maybe you've turned on fast saves.
Originally posted by ryaxnb
Maybe you've turned on fast saves.
I didn't "turn on" anything. As I noted, I don't use Word.
You are correct, though, that the deleted-but-still-there text problem is caused by fast saves. The problem is that many people use Word for sensitive information and DO have fast save turned on. There is no warning when turning on fast save about this problem. (Although it is mentioned in Word's help, how many people go out of their way to look there?)
Turning off fast save also does not address any of the other issues brought up by Eugene. And that is why I said that the only 100% solution is not to use MS Word. (And that's without getting into whether most people who use Word are best served by doing so.)
Originally posted by Ebby
America's Army has Spyware called Punkbuster and It is out for the mac. I have not installed it but I read comments about it and the EULA.
Punkbuster is an anti-cheating program.
Originally posted by Eugene
Your definition of spyware is narrow like torifile's. Adware and spyware are two related, but separate things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
Interesting, eh? It fits my definition of 'spyware' like a glove.
So, a trojan, which sends bleeps to a mothership, implanted into a new installation of OpenSSL is spyware according to this definition...the logical definition.
An app that creates documents where deleted content is really not deleted, where your personal info is stored without your knowledge and where unique identifiers are assigned without your knowledge is a piece of spyware.
Adware like Gator/Claria often function as spyware, but the two are not joined at the hip. Remember that service that put a toolbar with ads on your desktop, and paid you for it? They didn't collect your personal info surreptitiously, so their software was adware, but not spyware.
Definition of adware:
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware
Can we please stop now?
P.S. No, I did not directly contribute to these definitions.
EDIT: I remember what it was called now. Remember AllAdvantage?
We have differing definitions. You're playing with semantics. In the sense the original poster is asking, spyware is not a problem on the Mac. In the sense that security is a problem on every platform, it is. Let's leave it at that.
Originally posted by torifile
We have differing definitions. You're playing with semantics. In the sense the original poster is asking, spyware is not a problem on the Mac. In the sense that security is a problem on every platform, it is. Let's leave it at that.
Sheesh. I'm not playing with semantics. I'm using the most logical definition of the terms "spyware" and "adware." I was pleasantly surprised to find Wikipedia's definitions so closely matched with mine.
The question is "how do you know for sure?" Stealth is the name of the game. How do you know Acrobat Reader doesn't send something back to Adobe when it checks for updates and language kits? What about the internet enabled installers that Unsanity created? RealOne perhaps? Any software from smaller (one-man) developers who might be in a financial slump?
Originally posted by Eugene
Sheesh. I'm not playing with semantics. I'm using the most logical definition of the terms "spyware" and "adware." I was pleasantly surprised to find Wikipedia's definitions so closely matched with mine.
So you found a definition that matches up with what you believe. Big whoop. I can find a definition that matches up with what I believe. And I'm glad that you can surprise yourself so easily.
The question is "how do you know for sure?" Stealth is the name of the game. How do you know Acrobat Reader doesn't send something back to Adobe when it checks for updates and language kits? What about the internet enabled installers that Unsanity created? RealOne perhaps? Any software from smaller (one-man) developers who might be in a financial slump?
LittleSnitch and I turn off automatic checking for updates.
Originally posted by torifile
So you found a definition that matches up with what you believe. Big whoop. I can find a definition that matches up with what I believe. And I'm glad that you can surprise yourself so easily.
LittleSnitch and I turn off automatic checking for updates.
Wikipedia isn't exactly random source, it was the one stop I made before posting a third-party definition. Failing that, I would have tried hyperdictionary.com, though that doesn't seem to have entries for either 'adware' or 'spyware.'
You found a Mac app designed to combat non-existent spyware? How useless!
"Even statistics information about your computer may be sent this way."
"Trojan horses - i.e. programs transmitting unconsciously data stored on your computer - can be detected by Little Snitch and prevented on the transmission of data."
"Prevents applications from 'phoning home.'"
Originally posted by Eugene
Wikipedia isn't exactly random source, it was the one stop I made before posting a third-party definition. Failing that, I would have tried hyperdictionary.com, though that doesn't seem to have entries for either 'adware' or 'spyware.'
You found a Mac app designed to combat non-existent spyware? How useless!
"Even statistics information about your computer may be sent this way."
"Trojan horses - i.e. programs transmitting unconsciously data stored on your computer - can be detected by Little Snitch and prevented on the transmission of data."
"Prevents applications from 'phoning home.'"
That's marketing copy and applications phoning home does not constitute spyware.
Originally posted by torifile
That's marketing copy and applications phoning home does not constitute spyware.
Like I said, a useless app. Why did they bother? Mac spyware clearly does not exist... just like Osaka, Japan.
while people do write more sneaky apps on windows, thats not the problem, the problem is the o say 60% of windows users who choose to stay ignorant, i cant count the times that my common sence advice of 3-point protection falls on def ears, heres my attack plan that i recomend to all who ask
1: first and most impotantly, RUN A GOOD ANTIVIRUS and for the love of god, update it AT LEAST 2 times a week
2: run a software firewall and turn on the windows firewall (windows firewall is weak but it does stop a few script-kiddys) the 3rd party firewall will show you any outgoing and incomeing connections, if spyware calls out, nuke its conection.
3: run spybot s&d and lavasoft's ad-aware to hunt and kill the spy apps
and my next sentense to people about security,
the best security blanket going is osx, if u r realy that scared, or intimedated by windows security, buy an imac
Originally posted by Eugene
Like I said, a useless app. Why did they bother? Mac spyware clearly does not exist... just like Osaka, Japan.
Virex. How many viruses exist for OS X?
-----------------------------------
Ding!
Times up for today's session, Eugene. You're probably surprised that it even was a session, I know. But today was a naturalistic observation. Observing your behavior while you don't know about it to see how you react. From our last 2 sessions, this is what I've gleaned:
Delusions of Reference: Check
Delusions of Grandeur: Check, check, check
Paranoid Ideation: Check
Age, early to mid 20's: Check
Gender, male: Check
Now, one more question: Do you have schizophrenia in your family? Maybe you should get yourself to a psychiatrist because I can't prescribe Haldol.
Originally posted by a_greer
1: first and most impotantly, RUN A GOOD ANTIVIRUS and for the love of god, update it AT LEAST 2 times a week
2: run a software firewall and turn on the windows firewall (windows firewall is weak but it does stop a few script-kiddys) the 3rd party firewall will show you any outgoing and incomeing connections, if spyware calls out, nuke its conection.
3: run spybot s&d and lavasoft's ad-aware to hunt and kill the spy apps
the OTHER genius bar...
Originally posted by Ebby
America's Army has Spyware called Punkbuster and It is out for the mac. I have not installed it but I read comments about it and the EULA.
You have to be kidding me. Punkbuster is cheat-prevention software, and can be easily uninstalled.
BTW, you could call SecurityAgent and Login Window spyware...but guess what! IT'S NOT! Just because it doesn't show itself in the dock doesn't mean that there's some kind of conspiracy going on.
Originally posted by Paul
the OTHER genius bar...
never heard of that site. Honestly thats been my standard advice for like 2 years.
Never heard the term 'Genius Bar 'till I went to an Apple store like 2 years ago, just a clever way to say 19-22 year old college guys (and girls) who know apple inside-out-up-side-down