I used to be in the "God, the iPod mini is a stupid idea" camp, but I've rethought it and realized that it's perfect for the demographic it's going for. Most people who have a huge collection of music are going to want a huge-capacity iPod. I know I have 17 GB of music in my iTunes library and my main playlist is now about 8 GB, so the iPod mini is definitely too small for my needs unless I'm willing to do some paring down to weed out music I might not want to have around. No matter, the 15 GB model is just $50 more. That's an easy choice for me. I think Apple is hoping a lot of people will see it that way.
Early-adopters, people who absolutely must have the latest and greatest thing from Apple RIGHT NOW will buy the iPod mini, I'm sure. As a lot of people mentioned, the thing also seems to be very well-suited to the Japanese market, too. And I think when people who just want a cool little mp3 player see that the iPod mini is so comparably priced to products from other companies that don't offer as much capacity, they'll go for it.
I'm hoping that v.2 of the iPod mini will bring the price of the 4 GB down to, say, $149 and introduce another model using Toshiba's 2 GB drive at $99. Or maybe $199 for the 4 and $149 for the 2 would be a more realistic next step.
I agree with corbu, the iPod mini seems to scream exclusive to me!
Eventually, though, HD sizes will increase for the iPod mini and prices should fall hopefully. I would then see the iPod mini as the ultimate in music portability. Btw, built in mic is an excellent idea too Matsu! Why don't Apple do this? (3rd party add-ons are just plain ugly! )
The original iPod, however, I would like to see evolve further in form and functionality: colour screen, better iPhoto integration, video out to display photos on a TV (like most digital cameras can these days), built-in bluetooth, Keynote slide presentation capabilities too, yada yada ... I've spoken about this often enough.
(I'm a late adopter waiting for improved functionality on the iPod, before I hand over my hard-earned!)
consider this: every non-apple person i have come across thinks that this product is overpriced and will not buy one. they might have considered it if the price was more reasonable
These people simply don't know what they are talking about. Look at the available products. Look at the prices. Look at the capacities. Apple is on the mark here. The price WILL come down over time...but Apple is on the mark here.
In terms of "getting" iPod Mini, one needs to think less about this like a computer geek, and more like a normal, ordinary, everyday consumer.
1. Joe Consumer walks into Best Buy.
2. Joe Consumer sees a nifty MP3 player for $200. It holds (maybe) 100 songs. Cool.
3. Oh wait...Joe Consumer see iPod Mini right next to "nifty $200 MP3" player.
4. Joe Consumer think..."Hey, that's that cool iPod. Hey, I can get great songs through iTMS too for only $1 per. Hey it stores 1000 songs! Hey it looks way cooler than 'Nifty $200 MP3 player.'"
5. Joe Consumer walks in the door at home and says "Hey honey, I just got myself a cool new iPod!"
Yeah, I have to admit...it's been a couple of days now and I've been all over the Internet, looking at the competition's capacity, price, styling, etc.. With proper advertising/visibility and so forth, yeah I could see these new iPods really filling a nice niche.
As long as people KNOW THEY EXIST. And that's the only part I get nervous about sometimes...
So I guess, a couple of days after the keynote, I DO "get" these new iPods. Just hope Apple does, and does right by them.
NEVER! You must stick to your original position with stubborn stupidity until it is completely obvious you are wrong...and then you must begin lying to support your position!
This is not a nerd product, this is a fashion accessory.
I agree. For those who think the price is too high.
1. I have a 15 gigger and think the new mini is over priced because you can get an extra 11 gigs for 50 bones. Since you guys think the mini is over priced, I'm guessing you have the same opinion.
2. Like Corbu said, "Beautiful + expensive = exclusive". People who buy the mini are going to be girls or people trying to be in style.
People that are buying the mini are the same that pay $200 - $300 for a cell phone. They won't even bat an eye. Kind of like me. I bought the 15 gig for $400. Didn't think twice about it. Why? Its the best mp3 player, the best looking, and the ladies usually dig it! Grrr
Seriously pscates, I really don't know why you say this - everyone I know even vaguely into music not only knows they exist but wants one (they may not want to pay for one but that's a different story !).
I guess it depends on your circle of friends but Apple must have that demographic well and truly locked down.
Anyway, I bet to most people mp3 players ARE ipods...
Yes, to people a bit dialed-in and "hip to the jive", I'm SURE iPods = digital music end-all/be-all. But every time I go to Target (KNOWING they sell iPods), where are they? Out on display in the glass case with the other digital doodads like cameras and stuff? Nope, shoved down in a drawer below the cash register.
You have to ASK. I've tried this at three different Target stores in the last 2 months.
"Hey, do you guys carry the Apple iPod?"
I either get "I'm not sure...uh..." or "yeah, man...here it is!" and he/she proceeds to bend down, open a knee-level drawer and produce a box.
They never have an answer for me when I comment on "how would I - as someone just browsing and maybe thinking about buying an mp3 player - even KNOW you guys carry these things? They're nowhere to be seen...".
And I made a conscious effort during the holidays to keep a close eye on the Sunday inserts for the month of December. I saw NOT ONE TIME any mention, picture, promo, etc. of the iPod in the Best Buy OR Curcuit City Sunday paper circulars as Christmas neared. They'd advertise/showcase every other damn mp3 player, but no iPod. But both of these stores CARRY the iPod. I realize that's not a malicious, Best Buy or Circuit City decision to "leave them out" (at least I don't think), but still...
I don't live in San Diego anymore. Hell, I'm not even in Atlanta or Nashville (big, hip Southern cities with a nice Apple/tech presence and community), so I don't get the pleasure of "iPod posters on every bus stop" and "iPod billboards beside the interstate", so I only see what I see and know what I know.
If I was in NYC or Boston or Frisco, I guess I'd think a bit differently about it?
In any case, if these new iPod minis are made to "go after that lower-end, Flash-based market", then they damn well better be given a bit more play and presence in Target and in the Best Buy and Circuit City inserts and so forth, where the competition hangs out. No everyone lives in a city with an Apple retail store (and even those that do might never find themselves wandering in to one), so we can't just assume that EVERYONE knows what's what. It's obvious many don't.
And yes...the average person SHOULD be able to look at a 4GB-equipped $249 iPod mini and realize it beats the shit out of some similarly-priced hunk-of-crap only sporting 256MB. I just hope they can SEE these things and are simply aware of their presence and existence, that's all.
I don't hang around exclusively with in-the-know, iPod-toting college hipsters. Most of us don't, so...
Why is that stereotype okay (even funny), but if I said something about "baggy-panted, gold-tooth-sportin', stereo-blasting brothers", (also funny in its own way) I'd be looked down on or get into trouble and have to attend a sensitivity seminar?
Much like watching NASCAR, driving a truck, etc. none of the above activities are inherently bad or carries a negative connotation (some people do indeed prefer loose clothing and like their music loud and bassy). But if you SAY it, and it's directed at a guy who was black, it's your ass, isn't it? Then you're being racist and stereotyping, right?
You'd get called every name in the book and join Senator Lott and Jimmy the Greek in "Me and My Big Mouth Hall of Fame".
One of life's mysteries...
I guess there are "safe" targets and then "that which you dare not utter", just because. Probably that simple.
Anyway, I do get the new iPods and I'm not saying anything else and this isn't AppleOutsider and I'm not wavering any further off topic...
So excuse me while I go tend my moonshine still and make out with my cousin...
The funny thing is that the iPod mini's price seems strange until you look at the prices of the players it's going after.
If you don't want to spend $250 on a gorgeous little box with a killer interface that holds 1,000 songs, do you want to spend $200 on a dumpy little thing with a difficult interface that holds 100 songs? The whole price structure at the lower end is absurd, which is one reason the iPod does so well despite the premium it carries.
I also expect the iPod mini to eventually go down in price as the 4GB hard drive gets cheaper, and bigger siblings start to appear. But for an initial entry I think it's solid. The iPod was at the high end of the MP3 player price range when it bowed in as well, and it didn't even boast the advantage in capacity that the iPod mini does.
Also, amorph, the integration and slickness with iTunes and the iTMS can't be overstated either! The way these three things work together should be a shining model to other companies.
gelding, is there any other kind in these scenarios?
Although it is being marketed at going against the flash players, it seems more like the competition should be against the few small-hd based mp3 players being previewed at CES which I assume will fall into that $150-$250 range... i.e. the updated Nitrus, some new ones from Aiwa, etc.
However, the same UI design and other flaws appear to plague them (at least from the images I've seen online), so I don't think the iPod mini has anything to worry about now. Time for Apple to do their skimming off the top before adjusting prices.
As Steve pointed out, though, HD based players other than the iPod make up some truly dismal percentage of the market - like 3% or something (wait a minute - no, that's a NOBLE and VIRTUOUS percentage, dammit!). There's not much to go after. The Flash-based players, despite offering a fairly dismal cost/benefit, take up the bulk of the market that the iPod doesn't currently have, so that's the market to go after.
Obviously, Apple doesn't feel that using flash memory would gain them any advantage, so they're competing with a different tech.
I'll just start by saying that I haven't owned an Mac since my LC in high school but the G5, OSx and the mini ipod have be thinking about switching back.
I think the Ipod mini actually competes well with the PC based products, is well priced and makes sense. Personally I dont need 10+ gigs of mp3s on the road and I'm a music freak/musician with 25+ gigs of mp3s. The only product out on the market which is similar is the creative muvo2 4.0 gigs which goes for 300 USD. Got one for my dad and he loves it.
I'm buying a mini Ipod and a headless G5/ G5 cube for my desktop if they release one!
And yes...the average person SHOULD be able to look at a 4GB-equipped $249 iPod mini and realize it beats the shit out of some similarly-priced hunk-of-crap only sporting 256MB. I just hope they can SEE these things and are simply aware of their presence and existence, that's all.
I know this isn't your point, but i keep hearing people say, "but this ipod is only $50 more than a 256mb flash player." this simply isn't true. i was in circuit city and saw a 256mb flash player for $129 with no rebates or anything. $249 isn't competitive with anything.
I know this isn't your point, but i keep hearing people say, "but this ipod is only $50 more than a 256mb flash player." this simply isn't true. i was in circuit city and saw a 256mb flash player for $129 with no rebates or anything. $249 isn't competitive with anything.
It's not? iRiver wants $199 for their 256MB player. So does Rio. Creative has the audacity to charge $199 for both of their 256MB players and $299 for their 4GB player. Hmmm, maybe Apple was right about their pricing?
yup... whats more is that some of them come with built-in USB port... so some people buy them JUST for the flash drive!!! (thinking about it myself)
I've seen the range in BB from $130-$200, but the $200 models include a voice recorder, FM radio, and a built in USB connection...
the only main difference is the display and interface... (and well... capacity...)
if the people who are shopping for a CHEAP mp3 player see the minipod they will buy it... (hell only $80 more? and I get an iPOD? heres my credit card, I'll pay the difference next month...)
they range there from $150-$199, with the iRiver being $179.
I think it is very easy and possible to get a 256mb player for < $150, but it is absoultely not possible to get apples miniPod for < $250.
regardless, i do understand their pricing rationale, those little drives are really really expensive, but i still think it is more than people will pay. we'll see though
Comments
Early-adopters, people who absolutely must have the latest and greatest thing from Apple RIGHT NOW will buy the iPod mini, I'm sure. As a lot of people mentioned, the thing also seems to be very well-suited to the Japanese market, too. And I think when people who just want a cool little mp3 player see that the iPod mini is so comparably priced to products from other companies that don't offer as much capacity, they'll go for it.
I'm hoping that v.2 of the iPod mini will bring the price of the 4 GB down to, say, $149 and introduce another model using Toshiba's 2 GB drive at $99. Or maybe $199 for the 4 and $149 for the 2 would be a more realistic next step.
Eventually, though, HD sizes will increase for the iPod mini and prices should fall hopefully. I would then see the iPod mini as the ultimate in music portability. Btw, built in mic is an excellent idea too Matsu! Why don't Apple do this? (3rd party add-ons are just plain ugly!
The original iPod, however, I would like to see evolve further in form and functionality: colour screen, better iPhoto integration, video out to display photos on a TV (like most digital cameras can these days), built-in bluetooth, Keynote slide presentation capabilities too, yada yada ... I've spoken about this often enough.
(I'm a late adopter waiting for improved functionality on the iPod, before I hand over my hard-earned!)
Originally posted by _ alliance _
consider this: every non-apple person i have come across thinks that this product is overpriced and will not buy one. they might have considered it if the price was more reasonable
These people simply don't know what they are talking about. Look at the available products. Look at the prices. Look at the capacities. Apple is on the mark here. The price WILL come down over time...but Apple is on the mark here.
In terms of "getting" iPod Mini, one needs to think less about this like a computer geek, and more like a normal, ordinary, everyday consumer.
1. Joe Consumer walks into Best Buy.
2. Joe Consumer sees a nifty MP3 player for $200. It holds (maybe) 100 songs. Cool.
3. Oh wait...Joe Consumer see iPod Mini right next to "nifty $200 MP3" player.
4. Joe Consumer think..."Hey, that's that cool iPod. Hey, I can get great songs through iTMS too for only $1 per. Hey it stores 1000 songs! Hey it looks way cooler than 'Nifty $200 MP3 player.'"
5. Joe Consumer walks in the door at home and says "Hey honey, I just got myself a cool new iPod!"
As long as people KNOW THEY EXIST. And that's the only part I get nervous about sometimes...
So I guess, a couple of days after the keynote, I DO "get" these new iPods. Just hope Apple does, and does right by them.
Hey, a fella can change and amend his positions!
Originally posted by pscates
Hey, a fella can change and amend his positions!
NEVER! You must stick to your original position with stubborn stupidity until it is completely obvious you are wrong...and then you must begin lying to support your position!
;-)
Sorry...was thinking about political talk shows.
Originally posted by pscates
Hey, a fella can change and amend his positions!
It's a good thing you're not in AO. That kind of thing isn't permitted.
Originally posted by corbu
This is not a nerd product, this is a fashion accessory.
I agree. For those who think the price is too high.
1. I have a 15 gigger and think the new mini is over priced because you can get an extra 11 gigs for 50 bones. Since you guys think the mini is over priced, I'm guessing you have the same opinion.
2. Like Corbu said, "Beautiful + expensive = exclusive". People who buy the mini are going to be girls or people trying to be in style.
People that are buying the mini are the same that pay $200 - $300 for a cell phone. They won't even bat an eye. Kind of like me. I bought the 15 gig for $400. Didn't think twice about it. Why? Its the best mp3 player, the best looking, and the ladies usually dig it! Grrr
Originally posted by segovius
Seriously pscates, I really don't know why you say this - everyone I know even vaguely into music not only knows they exist but wants one (they may not want to pay for one but that's a different story !).
I guess it depends on your circle of friends but Apple must have that demographic well and truly locked down.
Anyway, I bet to most people mp3 players ARE ipods...
Yes, to people a bit dialed-in and "hip to the jive", I'm SURE iPods = digital music end-all/be-all. But every time I go to Target (KNOWING they sell iPods), where are they? Out on display in the glass case with the other digital doodads like cameras and stuff? Nope, shoved down in a drawer below the cash register.
You have to ASK. I've tried this at three different Target stores in the last 2 months.
"Hey, do you guys carry the Apple iPod?"
I either get "I'm not sure...uh..." or "yeah, man...here it is!" and he/she proceeds to bend down, open a knee-level drawer and produce a box.
They never have an answer for me when I comment on "how would I - as someone just browsing and maybe thinking about buying an mp3 player - even KNOW you guys carry these things? They're nowhere to be seen...".
And I made a conscious effort during the holidays to keep a close eye on the Sunday inserts for the month of December. I saw NOT ONE TIME any mention, picture, promo, etc. of the iPod in the Best Buy OR Curcuit City Sunday paper circulars as Christmas neared. They'd advertise/showcase every other damn mp3 player, but no iPod. But both of these stores CARRY the iPod. I realize that's not a malicious, Best Buy or Circuit City decision to "leave them out" (at least I don't think), but still...
I don't live in San Diego anymore. Hell, I'm not even in Atlanta or Nashville (big, hip Southern cities with a nice Apple/tech presence and community), so I don't get the pleasure of "iPod posters on every bus stop" and "iPod billboards beside the interstate", so I only see what I see and know what I know.
If I was in NYC or Boston or Frisco, I guess I'd think a bit differently about it?
In any case, if these new iPod minis are made to "go after that lower-end, Flash-based market", then they damn well better be given a bit more play and presence in Target and in the Best Buy and Circuit City inserts and so forth, where the competition hangs out. No everyone lives in a city with an Apple retail store (and even those that do might never find themselves wandering in to one), so we can't just assume that EVERYONE knows what's what. It's obvious many don't.
And yes...the average person SHOULD be able to look at a 4GB-equipped $249 iPod mini and realize it beats the shit out of some similarly-priced hunk-of-crap only sporting 256MB. I just hope they can SEE these things and are simply aware of their presence and existence, that's all.
I don't hang around exclusively with in-the-know, iPod-toting college hipsters. Most of us don't, so...
Originally posted by pscates
I don't hang around exclusively with in-the-know, iPod-toting college hipsters. Most of us don't, so...
You should. We are so much cooler than NASCAR watching, pick-up driving, gun toting hillbillies.
Much like watching NASCAR, driving a truck, etc. none of the above activities are inherently bad or carries a negative connotation (some people do indeed prefer loose clothing and like their music loud and bassy). But if you SAY it, and it's directed at a guy who was black, it's your ass, isn't it? Then you're being racist and stereotyping, right?
You'd get called every name in the book and join Senator Lott and Jimmy the Greek in "Me and My Big Mouth Hall of Fame".
One of life's mysteries...
I guess there are "safe" targets and then "that which you dare not utter", just because. Probably that simple.
Anyway, I do get the new iPods and I'm not saying anything else and this isn't AppleOutsider and I'm not wavering any further off topic...
So excuse me while I go tend my moonshine still and make out with my cousin...
g
If you don't want to spend $250 on a gorgeous little box with a killer interface that holds 1,000 songs, do you want to spend $200 on a dumpy little thing with a difficult interface that holds 100 songs? The whole price structure at the lower end is absurd, which is one reason the iPod does so well despite the premium it carries.
I also expect the iPod mini to eventually go down in price as the 4GB hard drive gets cheaper, and bigger siblings start to appear. But for an initial entry I think it's solid. The iPod was at the high end of the MP3 player price range when it bowed in as well, and it didn't even boast the advantage in capacity that the iPod mini does.
gelding, is there any other kind in these scenarios?
However, the same UI design and other flaws appear to plague them (at least from the images I've seen online), so I don't think the iPod mini has anything to worry about now. Time for Apple to do their skimming off the top before adjusting prices.
Obviously, Apple doesn't feel that using flash memory would gain them any advantage, so they're competing with a different tech.
I think the Ipod mini actually competes well with the PC based products, is well priced and makes sense. Personally I dont need 10+ gigs of mp3s on the road and I'm a music freak/musician with 25+ gigs of mp3s. The only product out on the market which is similar is the creative muvo2 4.0 gigs which goes for 300 USD. Got one for my dad and he loves it.
I'm buying a mini Ipod and a headless G5/ G5 cube for my desktop if they release one!
Mike B
Originally posted by pscates
And yes...the average person SHOULD be able to look at a 4GB-equipped $249 iPod mini and realize it beats the shit out of some similarly-priced hunk-of-crap only sporting 256MB. I just hope they can SEE these things and are simply aware of their presence and existence, that's all.
I know this isn't your point, but i keep hearing people say, "but this ipod is only $50 more than a 256mb flash player." this simply isn't true. i was in circuit city and saw a 256mb flash player for $129 with no rebates or anything. $249 isn't competitive with anything.
Originally posted by progmac
I know this isn't your point, but i keep hearing people say, "but this ipod is only $50 more than a 256mb flash player." this simply isn't true. i was in circuit city and saw a 256mb flash player for $129 with no rebates or anything. $249 isn't competitive with anything.
It's not? iRiver wants $199 for their 256MB player. So does Rio. Creative has the audacity to charge $199 for both of their 256MB players and $299 for their 4GB player. Hmmm, maybe Apple was right about their pricing?
I've seen the range in BB from $130-$200, but the $200 models include a voice recorder, FM radio, and a built in USB connection...
the only main difference is the display and interface... (and well... capacity...)
if the people who are shopping for a CHEAP mp3 player see the minipod they will buy it... (hell only $80 more? and I get an iPOD? heres my credit card, I'll pay the difference next month...)
such is 21st century capitalism
http://www.circuitcity.com/verity_se...3&qp=0&c=1&b=g
they range there from $150-$199, with the iRiver being $179.
I think it is very easy and possible to get a 256mb player for < $150, but it is absoultely not possible to get apples miniPod for < $250.
regardless, i do understand their pricing rationale, those little drives are really really expensive, but i still think it is more than people will pay. we'll see though