The Dean Campaign and Dirty Politics in NH

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
We are closing in on the NH Presidential Primary, the first primary to be held, in just 18 days. Over the last week, there have been some disturbing trends here in the Granite State, most coming from the Dean campaign. I've also heard of some similar, if not more serious charges being made against the Dean campaign in Iowa, but since I live in NH, I'm going to point out what's going on up here.



First of all, Wesley Clark has been gaining ground in both the national polls and in polls here in NH, now overtaking John Kerry for 2nd place. Dean's numbers have basically evened off and dropped a little in the last few weeks.



http://americanresearchgroup.com/nhpoll/demtrack/



This link shows a fairly up to date tracking poll in NH. Dean still has a 15 point lead over Clark, 35-20 according to this poll, but he had a 27 point lead just one week ago. Clark has been picking up some major speed here, and if this trend continues, Clark could give Dean a run for his money. This is not the disturbing part.



From the bottom of the link:



Quote:

Over the past 2 days of calling, a number of older respondents registered as undeclared voters have reported that they have received telephone calls from a campaign informing them that they will not be allowed to vote in the Democratic primary because they missed the deadline to switch parties. A respondent discovered, however, that when she told the caller that she was thinking about voting for Howard Dean, the caller told her that she would be eligible to vote._



In NH, most people are registered as independents, and when you go to vote, you can specify which ballot you want to take, and they register you for that political party. On the way out, there is another table where you switch back to being an Independent. The Dean campaign has been calling these types of independent voters to inform them that they are ineligible to vote, which is not the case at all.



Also in the past week, the Dean campaign sent staffers to Peterborough, NH, which is up the road from where I live, to a Clark rally to hand out anti-Clark literature. When the Clark campaign workers went to see what was going on, they were shouted down by Dean's campaign workers. Remember that this is at a Clark rally, and while not illegal, is in very bad taste. People in Bedford left a Clark rally to find their cars had anti-Clark pamphlets on them with quotes taken out of context.



The other thing that has happened is during a conference call where the press was invited, Dean campaign staffers apparently forgot who was listening when they went into detail about how they were going to deal with Clark. This included trying to portray Wesley Clark as not being a 'real Democrat', having Bill Bradley denounce Clark specifically (which did not happen), and trying to portray Clark's stance on the war as being different than it is, and portraying Dean as the 'only anti-war candidate'.



Dean promised that he wasn't going to go negative on other Democrats in this primary, and while yes, he has been on the defensive from other Democrats in Iowa in the various debates, Clark is not runing in the Iowa Caucus, yet is definitely the one the Dean campaign is worried about.



It's unfortunate that the Dean campaign has decided to go negative this early in the campaign, and even more unfortunate when the campaign is trying to convinve people of who can and cannot vote in the primary. It sounds like something out of Florida. But tactics like this could cost not only cost Dean the nomination, it could still cost him NH. Clark has gained 12 points on Dean in the past week, and it's a clear sign that the race isn't over yet. This has only pushed me more into the Clark camp and it has me even more convinced that Dean will not beat President Bush if he becomes the Democratic nominee.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    Clark is a Republican opportunist, is backed by Clintons and has no experience.



    If you can't handle the attacks, get out.
  • Reply 2 of 34
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    So it's okay to call people and tell them they can't vote? Where did 'backed by the Clintons' come from? Howard Dean?
  • Reply 3 of 34
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Awful... Fran thank you for the info.



    I am not a fan of Dean.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 4 of 34
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    A follow up:



    http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002665.html



    In this, the Dean campaign talks about 'Democrats not going negative on Democrats'. Read the comments below talking about Clark being a good VP choice for Dean. This was before the game where Dean said he offered Clark the chance to be VP and Clark said that never happened, etc.



    Quotes from the blog:



    Quote:

    But our campaign isn?t just about winning this election. It?s about restoring our democracy.



    Quote:

    But all Democrats in this election should join Howard Dean and stand up for democracy. They should be standing up for the participation of everyone, instead of pursuing tactics that breed cynicism and discourage Americans from voting.



    Yet it's okay to call people and tell them they can't vote in the primary. \
  • Reply 5 of 34
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fran441

    The Dean campaign has been calling these types of independent voters to inform them that they are ineligible to vote, which is not the case at all.



    It's a pretty serious charge, but in fairness, that's not what I'd call good evidence that anything is happening, let alone that it's coming from the Dean campaign.



    I do think the Deaniacs are going to be pretty committed and pretty pissed if their guy starts losing ground.
  • Reply 6 of 34
    FYI, I support Dennis Kuinich, not Howard Dean (he's my second choice).



    As for Clark,



    http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...5&s=taibbi&c=1



    I'll leave it at that.
  • Reply 7 of 34
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Joshua Micah Marshall has an update on the ARG poll.



    For what it's worth, apparently ARG is not the most reliable pollster out there, and there's nothing concrete linking this to the Dean campaign, although there are certainly grounds for suspicion.



    Whoever is doing this needs a prompt smackdown. You do not discourage people from voting in a democracy.
  • Reply 8 of 34
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Well, Josh Marshall weighed in on this recently.
    Quote:

    The analysis on today's ARG poll release concludes thus ...



    "Over the past 2 days of calling, a number of older respondents registered as undeclared voters have reported that they have received telephone calls from a campaign informing them that they will not be allowed to vote in the Democratic primary because they missed the deadline to switch parties. A respondent discovered, however, that when she told the caller that she was thinking about voting for Howard Dean, the caller told her that she would be eligible to vote."



    The clear implication of this comment is that someone

    _from the Dean campaign is making some sort of push-poll trying to depress the turnout of a voting group that leans against Dean (or at least isn't his strongest), i.e., older voters.



    [Late Update: A number of readers have asked about this sentence above, believing I'm implicating Dean. I'm not. I'm saying the clear implication of ARG's comment points toward Dean. And I think that's obviously true. That doesn't mean it's clear Dean's behind it. In fact, I suspect it's as likely as not that those who are behind it aren't even Democrats. I'm looking into it.]



    If true, it's the slimiest stuff imaginable -- the kind of trash tactics Dems are used to seeing from the other side.



    But how did ARG get this information about these calls 'from a campaign'? Did it come up in the course of the polling questions? Or is it scuttlebutt in New Hampshire campaign circles?



    Things like this do happen. Sometimes overenthusiastic volunteers just go off the reservation and do stupid things. But it seems odd to hear about it from a polling firm.



    I'm not casting doubt on the claim. I don't know any more about it than this little bit of text I quoted above. But something seems funny about it. It's quite a charge and it deserves more explanation.



    I concur 100% with his opinion on this.
  • Reply 9 of 34
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fran441

    From the bottom of the link:



    In NH, most people are registered as independents, and when you go to vote, you can specify which ballot you want to take, and they register you for that political party. On the way out, there is another table where you switch back to being an Independent. The Dean campaign has been calling these types of independent voters to inform them that they are ineligible to vote, which is not the case at all.




    Are you sure that it's Dean's people doing this? I wouldn't put it past Republicans who think that Dean will be the easiest for Bush to beat being behind this -- that is, if there's any organized "behind this" at all.



    Quote:

    Also in the past week, the Dean campaign sent staffers to Peterborough, NH, which is up the road from where I live, to a Clark rally to hand out anti-Clark literature. When the Clark campaign workers went to see what was going on, they were shouted down by Dean's campaign workers. Remember that this is at a Clark rally, and while not illegal, is in very bad taste. People in Bedford left a Clark rally to find their cars had anti-Clark pamphlets on them with quotes taken out of context.



    I was handed anti-Dean material at a Dean rally, and found the same stuff stuck to my windshield too. Nothing very unusual about this.
  • Reply 10 of 34
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    Quote:

    I do think the Deaniacs are going to be pretty committed and pretty pissed if their guy starts losing ground.



    Well Dean lost 4 points in NH over the past week and Clark gained 8 points. If this trend continues, then a lot of 'Deaniacs' are going to be 'pissed'. Regardless, these stories are beginnign to hit the local news stations in NH (we have two \ ) and it's not going to help the Dean campaign.



    Plus, going negatvie when you start losing ground in the polls is a very poor reaction, IMO, especially when you are trying to get other Democrats from being negative against you. It's like the old ad campaign theory: When you're #1, you don't even mention your competitor. Why give them the publicity at all? It's hypocritical to say that you won't go negative on other Democrats and then have it be your first tactic when you begin to slide in the polls.
  • Reply 11 of 34
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    Lots of replies about the ARG point, interesting stuff. I hope they do find out who is behind it, as they are serious charges. Like I said, the media up here is making it out to be the Dean campaign, adding that when the voter told the caller they were voting for Dean, they were asked if they needed a ride to their local polling place.
  • Reply 12 of 34
    gycgyc Posts: 90member
    I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions, it is inevitable that each candidate will have certain over-zealous supporters who cross the line in their support for their candidate, and I doubt such things would be condoned by any Presidential candidate. No I'm not a Dean supporter.
  • Reply 13 of 34
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    Fran,thanks for keeping us up-to-date on this...please continue your updates. If Dean's campaign is directly behind these alleged incidents it will certainly damage his ranking but the candidate himself is likely distanced far enough from the conspirators who crafted this plan to survive the incident.



    It certainly is damning at this early stage I must admit....but this stuff does happen all the time.
  • Reply 14 of 34
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    FYI, I support Dennis Kuinich, not Howard Dean (he's my second choice).



    As for Clark,



    http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...5&s=taibbi&c=1



    I'll leave it at that.




    I see. A piece of crap opinion piece sure says it all. Wow. Tobacco is whacko kids.
  • Reply 15 of 34
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Good lord, so when it is Democratic dirty tricks, some of declare it still must be Republicans. Insanity personified.



    Dean Dirty Tricks II



    How about the two Democratics who are higher ups in the Gephardt and Kerry campaigns?



    Try at least some thought before jerking those knees.



    Nick
  • Reply 16 of 34
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Good lord, so when it is Democratic dirty tricks, some of declare it still must be Republicans. Insanity personified.



    No one here said must be about anything. It seems that your #1 attack is try to to point out hypocrisy and extremism among those you disagree with -- and you'll go out of your way to create it if you have to to point at it.



    Certainly both Democrats and Republicans have pulled dirty tricks like this. Gray Davis' mucking about with Republican primaries in California is part of what brought him down.
  • Reply 17 of 34
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    You ain't seen nothin' yet, just wait until Sammi Jo and her Amazing Aluminum Hat shows up!! (just funnin')



    Anyhow, nobody really knows who's doing that stuff up there, so I'm sitting back to see what happens. Tampering with votes is serious stuff boys and girls....I'm keeping my mouth shut about potential guilty parties until we find out more.
  • Reply 18 of 34
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    No one here said must be about anything. It seems that your #1 attack is try to to point out hypocrisy and extremism among those you disagree with -- and you'll go out of your way to create it if you have to to point at it.



    Certainly both Democrats and Republicans have pulled dirty tricks like this. Gray Davis' mucking about with Republican primaries in California is part of what brought him down.




    Try reading the thread then



    From someone you might be familiar with... his name is....shetline...



    Quote:

    Are you sure that it's Dean's people doing this? I wouldn't put it past Republicans who think that Dean will be the easiest for Bush to beat being behind this -- that is, if there's any organized "behind this" at all.



    Now any time you would care to address the fact that a Gephardt campaign official and Kerry campaign official have claimed dirty tricks from Dean. They aren't a polling company. They aren't Republicans. They aren't even a "Republican opportunist back by Clinton."



    Address the dirty tricks please...



    Nick
  • Reply 19 of 34
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    No one here said must be about anything. It seems that your #1 attack is try to to point out hypocrisy and extremism among those you disagree with -- and you'll go out of your way to create it if you have to to point at it.



    He's the king of the straw man.
  • Reply 20 of 34
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,452member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    He's the king of the straw man.



    Yes, I have the Gephardt and Kerry campaigns on my payroll. Father Moon gave me the money to buy them off. We are all working together to spread lies about Dean since he will liberate the American people.



    or........the alternative that would actually require thought, critical discussion and of course you to stop jerking that knee is, Dean is playing a bunch of dirty tricks.



    Nick
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