Originally posted by HOM I can also vouch from personal experience...
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
As I said, I'm currently seeing a couple of Switchers through, and that's without any heavy lifting or overt, exhausting effort from me.
I just don't see this one the way you and amorph do, I guess. I just feel that all the pieces are in place and that if there's ever been a time for Apple to blow its own horn a bit (and be a little louder and agressive), it's now! Panther rocks, hardware is all G4 and above and everything has Ethernet, FireWire and wireless capability, iLife 04 looks to be the end-all/be-all consumer digital media app, the iPod/iTMS momentum is really high, it's the 20th anniversary, etc.
And yes, all the good stuff amorph mentions is wonderful (the education buying, the HP partnership, etc.). Nothing I'm saying is detracting from that. It's not an "either/or" game, or a "well, we've got the iPod and education sales are up...and Carly digs us. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, fellas!"
It ought to be "we're going for the throat this year, people...hang on, it's going to be a ride!"
I think there's such a thing as "laying low" to a fault, or "moving slow" and "waiting until...". I'm not thinking in terms of "timeline" either.
I don't know. Impatience and frustration, I guess. Knowing it could be so much more...knowing that I've met and known SO many people absolutely starving for something better and easier. Why wouldn't you make a genuine, honest effort to fill that need and step up and exploit that, to everyone's benefit? You're sitting on the absolute goods, but for all these various reasons, we shouldn't do much about it? We shouldn't let all these people know there is a perfectly valid and capable alternative?
I'll never, ever understand that. I just don't. Great posts, as usual, amorph. But I just can't see it the other way.
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
Sure. But:
A few minutes is several times longer than a commercial.
Your essentially interactive, real-world demonstration is not a bunch of claims in an advertisement, even if the demonstration covers the same features that the Windows camp all claim to have in their advertisements. Apple saying "Macs can make movies easily!" looks no different to Joe and Jane Consumer than Dell saying "Dells can make movies easily!" You or me showing that capability is a whole different matter.
Personally, the most effective fact I've offered is: Zero viruses. But you know the instant Apple bragged about that they'd jinx themselves.
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
As I said, I'm currently seeing a couple of Switchers through, and that's without any heavy lifting or overt, exhausting effort from me.
That's it! They Anti Cheap Whinny Geek® Association is official dissolved.
I have an honest question not intended to be obnoxious or smart ass in any way. How many of the people that you showed Macs and were obviously wowed ended up buying Macs? If they didn't what was the reason?
Also, I think it's pretty obvious that people are much more likely to believe a friend than a sales person so they will give much more weight to your opinion than my opinion, when I was selling Macs. But the ideas that you and I are advocating are not mutually exclusive. I do see a problem with how to properly market the products. As you know it's really hard to boil down iLife to 30 second spots. Again another personal experience. The Big and Small ad was one of the most successful I can remember. Because the visual aid of Yao Ming and Vern Troyer. It had nothing to do with specs or usability, but people "got it" It is much much harder to make people "get it" when you are trying to sell software. It is a lot easier to show people how iLife and OSX work over an extended period of time at an ARS.
Also, Amorph was right about Apple hanging their hat on the iPod. The Mac has so much baggage associated with it but the iPod has none. Apple got a clean slate and proved that when allowed to compete without having to swim up a waterfall they will compete very well. Every iPod that gets into a PC user's hand is the best advertising that Apple could hope for. Apple isn't that company that makes incompatible, overpriced, out of touch computers, but the company that makes the best damned MP3 player on earth. And any exposure that Apple gets that is not "beleaguered" or "niche" can only be a benefit.
We can also think about how Apple is just now firing on all cylinders and perhaps was waiting for this moment to start the attack. They have the best OS on earth, fastest computer, coolest consumer and pro software, and the iPod. Would it have been better for Apple to start the attack in 2001 when we were using 733 MHz G4's and 10.1? Apple finally has all of their ducks in a row to go on the offensive and the stars are aligned such that MS is getting hammered on the PR front, linux is chipping away at the back room stuff, and Apple has partners that not only care about Apple, but have their own futures invested in it i.e. IBM and HP. Going for the jugular at the wrong time is worse than not going for it at all. This could be Apple's last real shot at reclaiming serious market share for the Mac. Screw it up now and the iPod will be the only thing Ives has any time to work on. But, do it right, and Apple could see some serious growth.
P.S., man it is fun to write pscates style?. I gotta do it more often.
If I had a dime for every time a windows user saw me do something cool on my mac and say "wow! that's really friggin cool"(or words to that effect.
It's so true. I've seen the samething. The one thing I would add to this discussion is an interview I found on WiredNews.com from MacWorld. This is the kind of person Apple/Jobs is trying to get to. Has to get to.
Jeff Syrop, a die-hard PC user, brought his 10-year-old son George to Macworld to get an education.
"I thought it would be more educational than his crappy American public school," he explained. While George checked out the new iPod Mini, his dad ranted about his PC, while blowing hot on cold on the Mac.
He said he admires the Mac but will never get one because it's not mainstream.
"I'm a full-on PC user," Syrop said. "I pretty much hate using the Mac at work. I don't like the interface. Too childish. They sell this wonderful hardware, with this one-button mouse."
But a few minutes later, he said, "I wish they (Apple) would get their act together and blow Microsoft out of the water. But Apple's got, what, 7 percent market share? And it's used by artists and designers? It will never happen."
He continued, "I'll admit the PC is screwed up. It took me a whole year to sort out (hooking a camcorder to the PC). Last year I came here and did it in a second in iMovie.... There's a lot of things screwed up about the Mac world, but the usability is amazing."
Syrop's son, George, had clearer ideas about he wanted.
"I want to get the blue color," he said, indicating a nearby iPod Mini. "It's cool to have a music player for all my songs."
Asked if he preferred the newer or the older iPod, the 10-year-old said, "I like the new one. I don't have that many songs. It's smaller and lighter and it has better button configuration. It's better to have all the buttons in one."
His dad said his son plays violin and is very interested in the new GarageBand application. The kid said unfortunately he didn't have the money to buy one, but he'd just entered a competition to win one.
It's so true. I've seen the samething. The one thing I would add to this discussion is an interview I found on WiredNews.com from MacWorld. This is the kind of person Apple/Jobs is trying to get to. Has to get to.
Jeff Syrop, a die-hard PC user...
[snip]
He continued, "I'll admit the PC is screwed up. It took me a whole year to sort out (hooking a camcorder to the PC). Last year I came here and did it in a second in iMovie.... There's a lot of things screwed up about the Mac world, but the usability is amazing."
[snip]
Makes no friggin sense. If the PC isn't that usable, why use it?
We heard a lot of people say " Apple's waiting for that last piece of the puzzle to complete their strategy so they can fire on all cyclinders and attack on all fronts." Just what is this final piece? We've been hearing this for years. First it was the G4, imac, ipod, digital hub, xserve, os x, jaguar, panther, ilife, g5, lcd imac, itunes, and g5 imac. There is no mythical final piece. It's time for apple to compete. Time to leave the starting gates.
Why is apple stuck at the gates? They've failed to get their message across to the massess. They failed to prove the mac is a viable alternative. They failed on the price front. They failed to stomp out the misconceptions. "Apple is still around?" They failed on retail presence. Out of sight is out of mind. They failed to go after emerging markets (China & India).
Apple operates like a movie studio. Without a hit movie, they're sunk!
We heard a lot of people say " Apple's waiting for that last piece of the puzzle to complete their strategy so they can fire on all cyclinders and attack on all fronts."
Fortunately, none of these people run Apple, and none of the people running Apple have said this.
Steve Jobs has said that Apple will "continue to innovate its way out of the downturn," which means simply that Apple will continue to introduce the best products it can think of at the highest rate it can sustain, so that whenever things do get better they won't be caught cutting corners. There is no final piece, just the next piece. There is no sure way, just the next idea.
Apple glommed on to the iPod because that idea has been successful in getting Apples to new users to a degree that no other idea - not even OS X - has been. (OS X has sold a lot more, but mostly into the installed base.) OS X's biggest contribution, in fact, has been in providing a foundation that allows Apple to roll out hardware and software of a higher quality at a greater rate than Mac OS allowed.
Quote:
Why is apple stuck at the gates? They've failed to get their message across to the massess. They failed to prove the mac is a viable alternative.
And so they've taken another tack. Look at the interview quoted above: The PC user knows the Mac is better, but it's not "mainstream." This is the network effect: People want what everyone else has, because there's a comforting reinforcement in seeing a decision affirmed by everyone around you. Not everyone wants to be the maverick, and hardly anyone these days wants their computer to be an island cut off from the interconnected Windows world (that's more perception than reality, but it's perception that's the problem here).
Apple is competing - hard - on a playing field that's level for once, and they're winning hands down. They're getting Apple product into the hands of people who might never been aware of them, and letting people find out for themselves how much better Apple kit is. That's how you do it: Seeing people with Apple gear; seeing that a product really is better designed and more thoughtfully put together; seeing that it is interoperable with Windows - all of these are far, far more powerful than some ad by Apple claiming that the Mac is a viable PC. After all, what else are they going to say?
Quote:
They failed on retail presence. Out of sight is out of mind. They failed to go after emerging markets (China & India).
Their retail presence is stronger than it's been in years, and strengthening constantly. The deal with HP will get iPods - and they'll be called iPods, not 'HP Digital Music Players', on the street - with the Apple logo at bootup, into such Mac-phobic outlets as Staples. With that, the iPod will be available in almost 120,000 retail locations.
Granted, that's the iPod, not the Mac. But Apple knows by now that they can't trust retail to sell Macs without literal hand-holding by Apple employees. There's too much irrational hatred of the platform, because it's Other. Education isn't enough; only popularity has a chance of making it go away. So they have a controlled retail presence for the Mac, and they're using the iPod to build the brand. This is making the best of what they have.
Quote:
Apple operates like a movie studio. Without a hit movie, they're sunk!
Actually, Apple has been able to afford a few misses. I dare you to come up with a strategy for expanding market share that they haven't already tried - or which can't be simply dismissed.
Apple is going for the throat without having to say it though. Steve said that, "2004 is going to be a great Mac year." I interpret that to mean that Apple will continue to do what it has done, innovate. If Apple keeps doing what it does then it will keep producing winning products that drive market share and profits up. The iPod is only in the beginning stages and its overall effect on Apple's bottom line and market share hasnt even registered yet.
The more products that Apple makes that everyone latches onto, the more of a chance Apple will have to make a company like HP into nothing more than an Apple vendor. It'd be interesting if one day HP just decided to scrap all its shit and just become an assembly line company that deployed Apple's products for Apple. It is very possible that HP could simply end up as a distributor for Apple products, completely scrapping any of their own hardware/software initiatives and just taking small profits from every sale of a Mac.
Steve Jobs IS Apple ... Apple IS Steve Jobs ... Mac OS X IS Steve Jobs and vice versa ... the iPod, iChat, iSight, all the little goodies .... and what's a presentation of new products without steve jobs?
steve changed apple to what it is now and gives a very good direction of where to go. he's got the experience not to repeat mistakes he probably made and i think he's moving wisely. apples position to take off has never been better. if he'd leave what would be left?
Comments
Originally posted by HOM I can also vouch from personal experience...
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
As I said, I'm currently seeing a couple of Switchers through, and that's without any heavy lifting or overt, exhausting effort from me.
I just don't see this one the way you and amorph do, I guess. I just feel that all the pieces are in place and that if there's ever been a time for Apple to blow its own horn a bit (and be a little louder and agressive), it's now! Panther rocks, hardware is all G4 and above and everything has Ethernet, FireWire and wireless capability, iLife 04 looks to be the end-all/be-all consumer digital media app, the iPod/iTMS momentum is really high, it's the 20th anniversary, etc.
And yes, all the good stuff amorph mentions is wonderful (the education buying, the HP partnership, etc.). Nothing I'm saying is detracting from that. It's not an "either/or" game, or a "well, we've got the iPod and education sales are up...and Carly digs us. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, fellas!"
It ought to be "we're going for the throat this year, people...hang on, it's going to be a ride!"
I think there's such a thing as "laying low" to a fault, or "moving slow" and "waiting until...". I'm not thinking in terms of "timeline" either.
I don't know. Impatience and frustration, I guess. Knowing it could be so much more...knowing that I've met and known SO many people absolutely starving for something better and easier. Why wouldn't you make a genuine, honest effort to fill that need and step up and exploit that, to everyone's benefit? You're sitting on the absolute goods, but for all these various reasons, we shouldn't do much about it? We shouldn't let all these people know there is a perfectly valid and capable alternative?
I'll never, ever understand that. I just don't. Great posts, as usual, amorph. But I just can't see it the other way.
I'm going back to that GarageBand thread!
Originally posted by pscates
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
Sure. But:
A few minutes is several times longer than a commercial.
Your essentially interactive, real-world demonstration is not a bunch of claims in an advertisement, even if the demonstration covers the same features that the Windows camp all claim to have in their advertisements. Apple saying "Macs can make movies easily!" looks no different to Joe and Jane Consumer than Dell saying "Dells can make movies easily!" You or me showing that capability is a whole different matter.
Personally, the most effective fact I've offered is: Zero viruses. But you know the instant Apple bragged about that they'd jinx themselves.
Originally posted by pscates
Yes, and so can I...in that every single instance where I've taken a few minutes to show a friend, co-worker or relative the OS, an iApp in action, etc. they've been nothing less than impressed, often going off on their own to check out Apple's site to learn more. Usually within a few days, I'll receive and e-mail or phone call asking me MORE.
As I said, I'm currently seeing a couple of Switchers through, and that's without any heavy lifting or overt, exhausting effort from me.
That's it! They Anti Cheap Whinny Geek® Association is official dissolved.
I have an honest question not intended to be obnoxious or smart ass in any way. How many of the people that you showed Macs and were obviously wowed ended up buying Macs? If they didn't what was the reason?
Also, I think it's pretty obvious that people are much more likely to believe a friend than a sales person so they will give much more weight to your opinion than my opinion, when I was selling Macs. But the ideas that you and I are advocating are not mutually exclusive. I do see a problem with how to properly market the products. As you know it's really hard to boil down iLife to 30 second spots. Again another personal experience. The Big and Small ad was one of the most successful I can remember. Because the visual aid of Yao Ming and Vern Troyer. It had nothing to do with specs or usability, but people "got it" It is much much harder to make people "get it" when you are trying to sell software. It is a lot easier to show people how iLife and OSX work over an extended period of time at an ARS.
Also, Amorph was right about Apple hanging their hat on the iPod. The Mac has so much baggage associated with it but the iPod has none. Apple got a clean slate and proved that when allowed to compete without having to swim up a waterfall they will compete very well. Every iPod that gets into a PC user's hand is the best advertising that Apple could hope for. Apple isn't that company that makes incompatible, overpriced, out of touch computers, but the company that makes the best damned MP3 player on earth. And any exposure that Apple gets that is not "beleaguered" or "niche" can only be a benefit.
We can also think about how Apple is just now firing on all cylinders and perhaps was waiting for this moment to start the attack. They have the best OS on earth, fastest computer, coolest consumer and pro software, and the iPod. Would it have been better for Apple to start the attack in 2001 when we were using 733 MHz G4's and 10.1? Apple finally has all of their ducks in a row to go on the offensive and the stars are aligned such that MS is getting hammered on the PR front, linux is chipping away at the back room stuff, and Apple has partners that not only care about Apple, but have their own futures invested in it i.e. IBM and HP. Going for the jugular at the wrong time is worse than not going for it at all. This could be Apple's last real shot at reclaiming serious market share for the Mac. Screw it up now and the iPod will be the only thing Ives has any time to work on. But, do it right, and Apple could see some serious growth.
P.S., man it is fun to write pscates style?. I gotta do it more often.
I could afford a DP 2.0 g5
8)
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
If I had a dime for every time a windows user saw me do something cool on my mac and say "wow! that's really friggin cool"(or words to that effect.
It's so true. I've seen the samething. The one thing I would add to this discussion is an interview I found on WiredNews.com from MacWorld. This is the kind of person Apple/Jobs is trying to get to. Has to get to.
Jeff Syrop, a die-hard PC user, brought his 10-year-old son George to Macworld to get an education.
"I thought it would be more educational than his crappy American public school," he explained. While George checked out the new iPod Mini, his dad ranted about his PC, while blowing hot on cold on the Mac.
He said he admires the Mac but will never get one because it's not mainstream.
"I'm a full-on PC user," Syrop said. "I pretty much hate using the Mac at work. I don't like the interface. Too childish. They sell this wonderful hardware, with this one-button mouse."
But a few minutes later, he said, "I wish they (Apple) would get their act together and blow Microsoft out of the water. But Apple's got, what, 7 percent market share? And it's used by artists and designers? It will never happen."
He continued, "I'll admit the PC is screwed up. It took me a whole year to sort out (hooking a camcorder to the PC). Last year I came here and did it in a second in iMovie.... There's a lot of things screwed up about the Mac world, but the usability is amazing."
Syrop's son, George, had clearer ideas about he wanted.
"I want to get the blue color," he said, indicating a nearby iPod Mini. "It's cool to have a music player for all my songs."
Asked if he preferred the newer or the older iPod, the 10-year-old said, "I like the new one. I don't have that many songs. It's smaller and lighter and it has better button configuration. It's better to have all the buttons in one."
His dad said his son plays violin and is very interested in the new GarageBand application. The kid said unfortunately he didn't have the money to buy one, but he'd just entered a competition to win one.
Originally posted by imacFP
It's so true. I've seen the samething. The one thing I would add to this discussion is an interview I found on WiredNews.com from MacWorld. This is the kind of person Apple/Jobs is trying to get to. Has to get to.
Jeff Syrop, a die-hard PC user...
[snip]
He continued, "I'll admit the PC is screwed up. It took me a whole year to sort out (hooking a camcorder to the PC). Last year I came here and did it in a second in iMovie.... There's a lot of things screwed up about the Mac world, but the usability is amazing."
[snip]
Why is apple stuck at the gates? They've failed to get their message across to the massess. They failed to prove the mac is a viable alternative. They failed on the price front. They failed to stomp out the misconceptions. "Apple is still around?" They failed on retail presence. Out of sight is out of mind. They failed to go after emerging markets (China & India).
Apple operates like a movie studio. Without a hit movie, they're sunk!
Originally posted by Kung Fu Guy
We heard a lot of people say " Apple's waiting for that last piece of the puzzle to complete their strategy so they can fire on all cyclinders and attack on all fronts."
Fortunately, none of these people run Apple, and none of the people running Apple have said this.
Steve Jobs has said that Apple will "continue to innovate its way out of the downturn," which means simply that Apple will continue to introduce the best products it can think of at the highest rate it can sustain, so that whenever things do get better they won't be caught cutting corners. There is no final piece, just the next piece. There is no sure way, just the next idea.
Apple glommed on to the iPod because that idea has been successful in getting Apples to new users to a degree that no other idea - not even OS X - has been. (OS X has sold a lot more, but mostly into the installed base.) OS X's biggest contribution, in fact, has been in providing a foundation that allows Apple to roll out hardware and software of a higher quality at a greater rate than Mac OS allowed.
Why is apple stuck at the gates? They've failed to get their message across to the massess. They failed to prove the mac is a viable alternative.
And so they've taken another tack. Look at the interview quoted above: The PC user knows the Mac is better, but it's not "mainstream." This is the network effect: People want what everyone else has, because there's a comforting reinforcement in seeing a decision affirmed by everyone around you. Not everyone wants to be the maverick, and hardly anyone these days wants their computer to be an island cut off from the interconnected Windows world (that's more perception than reality, but it's perception that's the problem here).
Apple is competing - hard - on a playing field that's level for once, and they're winning hands down. They're getting Apple product into the hands of people who might never been aware of them, and letting people find out for themselves how much better Apple kit is. That's how you do it: Seeing people with Apple gear; seeing that a product really is better designed and more thoughtfully put together; seeing that it is interoperable with Windows - all of these are far, far more powerful than some ad by Apple claiming that the Mac is a viable PC. After all, what else are they going to say?
They failed on retail presence. Out of sight is out of mind. They failed to go after emerging markets (China & India).
Their retail presence is stronger than it's been in years, and strengthening constantly. The deal with HP will get iPods - and they'll be called iPods, not 'HP Digital Music Players', on the street - with the Apple logo at bootup, into such Mac-phobic outlets as Staples. With that, the iPod will be available in almost 120,000 retail locations.
Granted, that's the iPod, not the Mac. But Apple knows by now that they can't trust retail to sell Macs without literal hand-holding by Apple employees. There's too much irrational hatred of the platform, because it's Other. Education isn't enough; only popularity has a chance of making it go away. So they have a controlled retail presence for the Mac, and they're using the iPod to build the brand. This is making the best of what they have.
Apple operates like a movie studio. Without a hit movie, they're sunk!
Actually, Apple has been able to afford a few misses. I dare you to come up with a strategy for expanding market share that they haven't already tried - or which can't be simply dismissed.
The more products that Apple makes that everyone latches onto, the more of a chance Apple will have to make a company like HP into nothing more than an Apple vendor. It'd be interesting if one day HP just decided to scrap all its shit and just become an assembly line company that deployed Apple's products for Apple. It is very possible that HP could simply end up as a distributor for Apple products, completely scrapping any of their own hardware/software initiatives and just taking small profits from every sale of a Mac.
steve changed apple to what it is now and gives a very good direction of where to go. he's got the experience not to repeat mistakes he probably made and i think he's moving wisely. apples position to take off has never been better. if he'd leave what would be left?
go steve, go!