The idea of cheating crossed my mind once during a high school chemistry test, but I didn't do it ; I never cheated in school.
I studied hard in high school and college, and my good grades were a source of personal satisfaction for me. I didn't care if anyone else knew about how well I did, because my effort was in meeting the challenges for myself. When one works for his/her own satisfaction, cheating would be ridiculous. So I never did it, and never wanted to.
I hope that doesn't sound self-righteous and pompous. It probably does. But learning meant a lot to me, and still does. I also love meeting challenges, and testing my abilities. I think it's exciting and fun. It makes me feel alive, strong, competent and happy.
I have never cheated on my significant other(s) either. I'm just not that kind of person. If I want to start seeing other people, I would just tell him, and end the relationship if that became necessary.
I think your sense of cheating is much more narrow than the book is discussing. Ever driven 75 in a 55. Kept wrong change from a cashier. Claimed a deduction on your taxes that you spent, but couldn't find a receipt for at tax time. Have you ever had the price of something come up wrong and not corrected it. Ever gotten an extra bag of french fries in the drive thru...etc.
Been late to a meeting and made up an excuse? Made a mistake on your checking account a complained about the charge, etc.
I can understand on grades. I never cared enough about my GPA to justify any cheating, and I've never studied for a test in my life beyond reading the directions of how to take it.
However I would never be so bold as to claim there was never a cut corner in my life.
I think your sense of cheating is much more narrow than the book is discussing. Ever driven 75 in a 55. Kept wrong change from a cashier. Claimed a deduction on your taxes that you spent, but couldn't find a receipt for at tax time. Have you ever had the price of something come up wrong and not corrected it. Ever gotten an extra bag of french fries in the drive thru...etc.
Been late to a meeting and made up an excuse? Made a mistake on your checking account a complained about the charge, etc.
I can understand on grades. I never cared enough about my GPA to justify any cheating, and I've never studied for a test in my life beyond reading the directions of how to take it.
However I would never be so bold as to claim there was never a cut corner in my life.
Nick
Nick - I didn't check out the link to the book, so have no idea what the book discussed. I mentioned what to me seemed significant cheating issues - not a comprehensive list of every decision I've made in my entire life, to be sure.
When I was 19, I took out $1,000 from my account for summer expenses. I took some in cash and some in traveler's checks. I got home and found that the teller had give me $100 too much. I took it back. I thought the teller might have gotten in trouble; and it turns out, she would have.
At Costco, I bought a gold bracelet, but in the box was a gold necklace instead. I took it back, though it was worth far more than the bracelet I had actually purchased. To me, these were fairly significant honesty issues.
But I'm not some kind of goody two-shoes. I DO go over the speed limit, on a regular basis (safely), and will continue to do so. I have concocted highly imaginative reasons for missing meetings from time to time, though my attendance percentage is at least 99%. So if you want to say I'm a liar and a cheat, fine.
I don't keep wrong change from cashiers, btw.
I consider myself basically an honest person whose integrity is relatively-well intact. I like the feeling I get from being truthful, and have found it's easier in the long run to be that way. But I am not a stainless vessel, by any means, nor would I especially want to be. Too much of a good thing is a little nauseating, don't you think?
But I am always honest wrt things I consider significant, even when it hurts to be so. When I do something wrong, instead of lying about it, I admit that I did it, admit that I used really poor judgment, and then apologize. I find it SO much easier to be that way. Just so much easier. And then I go on with life, light of heart.
Nick - I didn't check out the link to the book, so have no idea what the book discussed. I mentioned what to me seemed significant cheating issues - not a comprehensive list of every decision I've made in my entire life, to be sure.
When I was 19, I took out $1,000 from my account for summer expenses. I took some in cash and some in traveler's checks. I got home and found that the teller had give me $100 too much. I took it back. I thought the teller might have gotten in trouble; and it turns out, she would have.
At Costco, I bought a gold bracelet, but in the box was a gold necklace instead. I took it back, though it was worth far more than the bracelet I had actually purchased. To me, these were fairly significant honesty issues.
But I'm not some kind of goody two-shoes. I DO go over the speed limit, on a regular basis (safely), and will continue to do so. I have concocted highly imaginative reasons for missing meetings from time to time, though my attendance percentage is at least 99%. So if you want to say I'm a liar and a cheat, fine.
I don't keep wrong change from cashiers, btw.
I consider myself basically an honest person whose integrity is relatively-well intact. I like the feeling I get from being truthful, and have found it's easier in the long run to be that way. But I am not a stainless vessel, by any means, nor would I especially want to be. Too much of a good thing is a little nauseating, don't you think?
But I am always honest wrt things I consider significant, even when it hurts to be so. When I do something wrong, instead of lying about it, I admit that I did it, admit that I used really poor judgment, and then apologize. I find it SO much easier to be that way. Just so much easier. And then I go on with life, light of heart.
The reality is that probably most people are that way, say 99% honest in their dealings. However I think that when this is applied across the massive scale of people we have today, it just looks bad.
My alma mater (CSULB) has about 35000 students. Suppose just 2% of them were cheaters and did so in their full time class load. That is 700 people times 15 units which is 5 classes typically. That is 3500 incidences of cheating PER semester.
Now of course if I really wanted to zing you I would have to use all my years of experience in lounges full of teachers, mostly female to get to ya on the REALLY important questions to women like...
What's your real shoe size when not wearing your favorite brand? (which coincidentally just happens to say you are a size smaller than the other brands)
What is your dress size without adding the word "sometimes or or?"
Does your drivers license have your real height and your real weight?
What is your eye color without adding "with just a hint of...?"
Maybe not, but you encourage the U.S. government to cheat. That is, start a war based on false evidence. That's cheating of the worst kind.
Well Bunge, I don't think it's the subject of this thread.
However as Trumptman pointed it out, I find weird statements like " i never cheat". And even if i am honest in many parts of my life, tooking back money if people give me too much, for example, there is probabily some parts of my life where i will not follow the rules, finding them non significants or irrelevants.
But the facts that i find them irrelevants or non significants, do not means that they do not count. Many people are honest with their own personal codes.
I am always cautious, when people claim their morality in bold letters, especially in the case of politicians.
It's too tiring to cheat, lie, etc. My own philosophy has been that the means justify the ends and I've always been dead set against the opposite. The ends don't justify the means.
As you said BRussell, goal oriented. That's just the opposite of how I attack life. I really don't care about the outcome if the path I take to get there is clear. Some people live their life in reverse though. They don't care about the path they take as long as they get what they want.
Comments
Originally posted by Carol A
Not everyone is a cheater. I don't cheat.
The idea of cheating crossed my mind once during a high school chemistry test, but I didn't do it ; I never cheated in school.
I studied hard in high school and college, and my good grades were a source of personal satisfaction for me. I didn't care if anyone else knew about how well I did, because my effort was in meeting the challenges for myself. When one works for his/her own satisfaction, cheating would be ridiculous. So I never did it, and never wanted to.
I hope that doesn't sound self-righteous and pompous. It probably does. But learning meant a lot to me, and still does. I also love meeting challenges, and testing my abilities. I think it's exciting and fun. It makes me feel alive, strong, competent and happy.
I have never cheated on my significant other(s) either. I'm just not that kind of person. If I want to start seeing other people, I would just tell him, and end the relationship if that became necessary.
I think your sense of cheating is much more narrow than the book is discussing. Ever driven 75 in a 55. Kept wrong change from a cashier. Claimed a deduction on your taxes that you spent, but couldn't find a receipt for at tax time. Have you ever had the price of something come up wrong and not corrected it. Ever gotten an extra bag of french fries in the drive thru...etc.
Been late to a meeting and made up an excuse? Made a mistake on your checking account a complained about the charge, etc.
I can understand on grades. I never cared enough about my GPA to justify any cheating, and I've never studied for a test in my life beyond reading the directions of how to take it.
However I would never be so bold as to claim there was never a cut corner in my life.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I think your sense of cheating is much more narrow than the book is discussing. Ever driven 75 in a 55. Kept wrong change from a cashier. Claimed a deduction on your taxes that you spent, but couldn't find a receipt for at tax time. Have you ever had the price of something come up wrong and not corrected it. Ever gotten an extra bag of french fries in the drive thru...etc.
Been late to a meeting and made up an excuse? Made a mistake on your checking account a complained about the charge, etc.
I can understand on grades. I never cared enough about my GPA to justify any cheating, and I've never studied for a test in my life beyond reading the directions of how to take it.
However I would never be so bold as to claim there was never a cut corner in my life.
Nick
Nick - I didn't check out the link to the book, so have no idea what the book discussed. I mentioned what to me seemed significant cheating issues - not a comprehensive list of every decision I've made in my entire life, to be sure.
When I was 19, I took out $1,000 from my account for summer expenses. I took some in cash and some in traveler's checks. I got home and found that the teller had give me $100 too much. I took it back. I thought the teller might have gotten in trouble; and it turns out, she would have.
At Costco, I bought a gold bracelet, but in the box was a gold necklace instead. I took it back, though it was worth far more than the bracelet I had actually purchased. To me, these were fairly significant honesty issues.
But I'm not some kind of goody two-shoes. I DO go over the speed limit, on a regular basis (safely), and will continue to do so. I have concocted highly imaginative reasons for missing meetings from time to time, though my attendance percentage is at least 99%. So if you want to say I'm a liar and a cheat, fine.
I don't keep wrong change from cashiers, btw.
I consider myself basically an honest person whose integrity is relatively-well intact. I like the feeling I get from being truthful, and have found it's easier in the long run to be that way. But I am not a stainless vessel, by any means, nor would I especially want to be. Too much of a good thing is a little nauseating, don't you think?
But I am always honest wrt things I consider significant, even when it hurts to be so. When I do something wrong, instead of lying about it, I admit that I did it, admit that I used really poor judgment, and then apologize. I find it SO much easier to be that way. Just so much easier. And then I go on with life, light of heart.
Originally posted by Carol A
Nick - I didn't check out the link to the book, so have no idea what the book discussed. I mentioned what to me seemed significant cheating issues - not a comprehensive list of every decision I've made in my entire life, to be sure.
When I was 19, I took out $1,000 from my account for summer expenses. I took some in cash and some in traveler's checks. I got home and found that the teller had give me $100 too much. I took it back. I thought the teller might have gotten in trouble; and it turns out, she would have.
At Costco, I bought a gold bracelet, but in the box was a gold necklace instead. I took it back, though it was worth far more than the bracelet I had actually purchased. To me, these were fairly significant honesty issues.
But I'm not some kind of goody two-shoes. I DO go over the speed limit, on a regular basis (safely), and will continue to do so. I have concocted highly imaginative reasons for missing meetings from time to time, though my attendance percentage is at least 99%. So if you want to say I'm a liar and a cheat, fine.
I don't keep wrong change from cashiers, btw.
I consider myself basically an honest person whose integrity is relatively-well intact. I like the feeling I get from being truthful, and have found it's easier in the long run to be that way. But I am not a stainless vessel, by any means, nor would I especially want to be. Too much of a good thing is a little nauseating, don't you think?
But I am always honest wrt things I consider significant, even when it hurts to be so. When I do something wrong, instead of lying about it, I admit that I did it, admit that I used really poor judgment, and then apologize. I find it SO much easier to be that way. Just so much easier. And then I go on with life, light of heart.
The reality is that probably most people are that way, say 99% honest in their dealings. However I think that when this is applied across the massive scale of people we have today, it just looks bad.
My alma mater (CSULB) has about 35000 students. Suppose just 2% of them were cheaters and did so in their full time class load. That is 700 people times 15 units which is 5 classes typically. That is 3500 incidences of cheating PER semester.
Now of course if I really wanted to zing you I would have to use all my years of experience in lounges full of teachers, mostly female to get to ya on the REALLY important questions to women like...
What's your real shoe size when not wearing your favorite brand? (which coincidentally just happens to say you are a size smaller than the other brands)
What is your dress size without adding the word "sometimes or or?"
Does your drivers license have your real height and your real weight?
What is your eye color without adding "with just a hint of...?"
Just having fun with ya...
Nick
Originally posted by Carol A
Not everyone is a cheater. I don't cheat.
Maybe not, but you encourage the U.S. government to cheat. That is, start a war based on false evidence. That's cheating of the worst kind.
Originally posted by bunge
Maybe not, but you encourage the U.S. government to cheat. That is, start a war based on false evidence. That's cheating of the worst kind.
Well Bunge, I don't think it's the subject of this thread.
However as Trumptman pointed it out, I find weird statements like " i never cheat". And even if i am honest in many parts of my life, tooking back money if people give me too much, for example, there is probabily some parts of my life where i will not follow the rules, finding them non significants or irrelevants.
But the facts that i find them irrelevants or non significants, do not means that they do not count. Many people are honest with their own personal codes.
I am always cautious, when people claim their morality in bold letters, especially in the case of politicians.
everyone's The Other is in AO so they can't tell that/if they cheat?
As you said BRussell, goal oriented. That's just the opposite of how I attack life. I really don't care about the outcome if the path I take to get there is clear. Some people live their life in reverse though. They don't care about the path they take as long as they get what they want.