Ok, looks like another iPod/Set-top box thread? Hear me out...
Set-top iBox, iPod, iLife, and OS X all rolled into one? Well, not really but maybe something interesting along those lines is imminent. I got to thinking pscates style about all of this and I came up with something that's been talked about but this idea has a slight twist. How about a "Duo" type twist? Remember those great 'ol things? The Apple notebook/desktop conversion computer? A pretty cool idea, I think. Well, what if you could mate such an idea with the iPod and Dock, but in a whole different way than has been mentioned?
Just think: Take your iPod and slide it into a device, much like an expanded form of the iPod Dock and presto! Your iPod is now an iLife functional media display center! How you ask? Well, the iPod has a massive hard drive, capable of storing any file but incapable of displaying or outputting such files directly to a T.V. This docking station for the iPod could provide a pretty portable way of DISPLAYING media directly from the iPod to a TV, projector or a computer. Just as the iPod Dock has line in/out for stereo equipment, what if it had video in/out options?
Your iPod, and Media Dock could come together to fulfill probably 50% of a portable computer users needs. You could create a Keynote presentation on the Mac, place it on the iPod as a quicktime file, and then present the Keynote file via the iPod and Media Dock. You could even use a blue tooth phone as a slide clicker!
It would become a go-between that would be much quicker than burning DVD's or CD's and be much less expensive in the long run. Also it would be much less expensive than owning a Powerbook just for showing presentations. Essentially this Media Dock would translate these files into what people have wanted Apple to do with a Video iPod, except build it in in such a way that makes the video actually viewable. Rather than have a $700 iPod that plays video on a tiny screen, keep the iPod costs the same but sell an accessory that performs the same function, in a more functional way.
Ok, debunk me now, thoughts, flames, comments?
I'll be making a commercial for such a product shortly.
Just think: Take your iPod and slide it into a device, much like an expanded form of the iPod Dock and presto! Your iPod is now an iLife functional media display center! How you ask? Well, the iPod has a massive hard drive, capable of storing any file but incapable of displaying or outputting such files directly to a T.V. This docking station for the iPod could provide a pretty portable way of DISPLAYING media directly from the iPod to a TV, projector or a computer. Just as the iPod Dock has line in/out for stereo equipment, what if it had video in/out options?
Your iPod, and Media Dock could come together to fulfill probably 50% of a portable computer users needs. You could create a Keynote presentation on the Mac, place it on the iPod as a quicktime file, and then present the Keynote file via the iPod and Media Dock. You could even use a blue tooth phone as a slide clicker!
It would become a go-between that would be much quicker than burning DVD's or CD's and be much less expensive in the long run. Also it would be much less expensive than owning a Powerbook just for showing presentations. Essentially this Media Dock would translate these files into what people have wanted Apple to do with a Video iPod, except build it in in such a way that makes the video actually viewable. Rather than have a $700 iPod that plays video on a tiny screen, keep the iPod costs the same but sell an accessory that performs the same function, in a more functional way.
Ok, debunk me now, thoughts, flames, comments?
I'll be making a commercial for such a product shortly.
Comments
A question was asked of whether they'd be doing anything in particular this year with the TV and Steve indirectly said 'no.'
His quote was something of the form, 'people turn on TV's to turn their brain off, and go to their computers to learn.'
Merging of this company and the idea of Television doesn't look promising for quite a while. Now, I'm not eliminating the idea of TV on the Computer. Rumors are a flowing that their could be a cinema projector coming out. But then again, who knows.
-walloo.
Apple's successful iLife software suite, the hub could be used for managing digital photos or watching home movies. A musician could even use it, loaded with Apple's new GarageBand music software, to create a backup band while playing lead on the family piano. Such a device might appeal to youngsters who've grown up digital -- interacting with technology rather than just watching it. Jobs won't comment on such opportunities, except to warn of the difficulty of creating products people really want to use. "I'm not saying we're not going to do these things. I'm just saying they are a lot more complicated than they look."
Jobs won't comment on such opportunities, except to warn of the difficulty of creating products people really want to use. "I'm not saying we're not going to do these things. I'm just saying they are a lot more complicated than they look."
use a simple bluetooth remote (wich i think itunes/ipod should have anyway for home stereo use) and you'd be set.
you could do great stuff.
from my own perspective as a musician it'd be a great solution to run slides and clips to a projector during live performances.
also a simple OS like theiPod's would be very stable and thus very failproof on performances.
yep, I think it is the way to go.
it would cater to the home and professional market.
thumbs up from me
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
Set-top iBox, iPod, iLife, and OS X all rolled into one? Well, not really but maybe something interesting along those lines is imminent. I got to thinking pscates style about all of this and I came up with something that's been talked about but this idea has a slight twist. How about a "Duo" type twist? Remember those great 'ol things? The Apple notebook/desktop conversion computer? A pretty cool idea, I think. Well, what if you could mate such an idea with the iPod and Dock, but in a whole different way than has been mentioned?
Just think: Take your iPod and slide it into a device, much like an expanded form of the iPod Dock and presto! Your iPod is now an iLife functional media display center! How you ask? Well, the iPod has a massive hard drive, capable of storing any file but incapable of displaying or outputting such files directly to a T.V. This docking station for the iPod could provide a pretty portable way of DISPLAYING media directly from the iPod to a TV, projector or a computer. Just as the iPod Dock has line in/out for stereo equipment, what if it had video in/out options?
Your iPod, and Media Dock could come together to fulfill probably 50% of a portable computer users needs. You could create a Keynote presentation on the Mac, place it on the iPod as a quicktime file, and then present the Keynote file via the iPod and Media Dock. You could even use a blue tooth phone as a slide clicker!
It would become a go-between that would be much quicker than burning DVD's or CD's and be much less expensive in the long run. Also it would be much less expensive than owning a Powerbook just for showing presentations. Essentially this Media Dock would translate these files into what people have wanted Apple to do with a Video iPod, except build it in in such a way that makes the video actually viewable. Rather than have a $700 iPod that plays video on a tiny screen, keep the iPod costs the same but sell an accessory that performs the same function, in a more functional way.
Ok, debunk me now, thoughts, flames, comments?
I'll be making a commercial for such a product shortly.
Why would you want an intermediary for your movies when the iBox could be hooked up to your wired or wireless network for less money than any iPod available and have access to all of the files that it could recognize, movies, video, photos. The iPods HD is too limited if you are going to add video files on top of your music.
Originally posted by @homenow
Why would you want an intermediary for your movies when the iBox could be hooked up to your wired or wireless network for less money than any iPod available and have access to all of the files that it could recognize, movies, video, photos. The iPods HD is too limited if you are going to add video files on top of your music.
Think sales, think marketing impact my friend.
This device I am talking about could and would increase iPod sales tremendously, giving it yet one more function and making it more useful considering most people dont have nearly 40 GB of music.
The HD is not too limited at 40 GB with video files along side of the music, and also you could just un-sync your music when you know you are going to use the iPod for a presentation, then add on the video file. Seems as simple as syncing, really.
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
Think sales, think marketing impact my friend.
This device I am talking about could and would increase iPod sales tremendously, giving it yet one more function and making it more useful considering most people dont have nearly 40 GB of music.
The HD is not too limited at 40 GB with video files along side of the music, and also you could just un-sync your music when you know you are going to use the iPod for a presentation, then add on the video file. Seems as simple as syncing, really.
So instead of a $100-200 set top box you have a $500-600 iPod/AV base station combo? For a set top box to be successfull it needs to be cheep, eventually falling to the $50-100 price range, impossible to do with a 40GB iPod. Also 40GB is a bit small when you add a video library, at aprox 4.5 GB per 2 hour dvd or less than 10 movies per iPod, on top of a Music library. Add in an iPhoto library and that leaves even less space. I don't mean this to sound like I am flaming you, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Why continually sync your files when you could have instant access via Ethernet or AirPort.
Originally posted by @homenow
So instead of a $100-200 set top box you have a $500-600 iPod/AV base station combo? For a set top box to be successfull it needs to be cheep, eventually falling to the $50-100 price range, impossible to do with a 40GB iPod. Also 40GB is a bit small when you add a video library, at aprox 4.5 GB per 2 hour dvd or less than 10 movies per iPod, on top of a Music library. Add in an iPhoto library and that leaves even less space. I don't mean this to sound like I am flaming you, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
You dont seem to get the point though. This is a way to sell more iPods, adds another accessory and feature all while fulfilling the set-top box needs. It is not for storing a video library on the iPod, it is the ability to PRESENT, or show stuff YOU have made.
This is not meant to be a portable DVD player, its an MP3 player that doubles as an iLife showcase for all your photos, iMovies, and even Keynote presentations.
Yet more evidence from Apple itself that things like this are in the minds of those in charge, hehe...Want new ways to share? You?ll find a new ?Share? feature under the iMovie File menu that gives you brand new ways to distribute your movie: email it, publish it on your .Mac HomePage or save it to a compatible Bluetooth device such as your PDA or cell phone, which lets you take your movie with you. To make the movie ultra-portable, iMovie automatically compresses it to the best size for sharing.
However when your at home you want access to your entire library of videos, photos, and music at each AV station that you have in your house. I don't think that you want to carry your iPod around everywhere in the house. If you need to take a leak, just call up the movie you were watching in your living room on the TV in your bathroom at the same place you left off. No need to unplug the iPod and plug it back into when you get to the Head. A straight networked PAVP (personal AudioVideo player) would be cheaper and I believe more attractive in the consumer market.
Yes build in the software support to recognize all iPods plugged into the network but don't build the Box around an fairly expensive portable device. Remember that most households (at least in the US where we don't pay the BBC tax) have more than one TV, and a lot of them have 3+, that is a lot of potential sales for a set top box done right.
Untie it from the iPod, make the iBox another peripheral of the Digital Hub idea, and you've got a much better item for sale.
"Want an iBox? Get a Mac!" Much like the iPod originally was. Then as ZeroConf and QuickTime get better installation on Windows boxes, sell them for them as well.
Voila. Make profit.
And... it becomes a killer inroad for people wanting to then make their own videos and music ala their friend. "Now you have the iBox, you just need iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand... so get a Mac."
Make more profit.
Originally posted by Kickaha
iPod sales are great. Mac sales are better.
Untie it from the iPod, make the iBox another peripheral of the Digital Hub idea, and you've got a much better item for sale.
"Want an iBox? Get a Mac!" Much like the iPod originally was. Then as ZeroConf and QuickTime get better installation on Windows boxes, sell them for them as well.
Voila. Make profit.
And... it becomes a killer inroad for people wanting to then make their own videos and music ala their friend. "Now you have the iBox, you just need iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand... so get a Mac."
Make more profit.
Oops wait no....Uhm, why not just entice more people to get the iPod by doing what I've talked about? Apple wants domination of that market, more than anything right now, no?
Originally posted by Kickaha
iPod sales are great. Mac sales are better.
Untie it from the iPod, make the iBox another peripheral of the Digital Hub idea, and you've got a much better item for sale.
"Want an iBox? Get a Mac!" Much like the iPod originally was. Then as ZeroConf and QuickTime get better installation on Windows boxes, sell them for them as well.
Voila. Make profit.
And... it becomes a killer inroad for people wanting to then make their own videos and music ala their friend. "Now you have the iBox, you just need iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand... so get a Mac."
Make more profit.
Enh. The cross-platform approach works for the iPod because there's a compelling, platform-agnostic use for the iPod: it's the ultimate Walkman.
If iBox doesn't come into its own until you have iLife, why would any Windows user buy it? There's no hook that I can see, and it doesn't seem to me to add anything completely new and ultimately convenient like the ability to have your entire music collection with you at all times.
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
Oops wait no....Uhm, why not just entice more people to get the iPod by doing what I've talked about? Apple wants domination of that market, more than anything right now, no?
If it is tied too closely to an iPod then not everyone will buy it. I have no desire to have an iPod, and would probably find another solution that doesn't come with a $300+ premium for an iPod. I don't listen to music using head phones, and don't need to bring my music library to work with me. For the iBox to be successful it needs to stand on its own just like the iPod does. Sure have connectivity and potential integration to build sales for your other products. But the device itself needs to be a simple plug in to your hub to allow you to have access to the AV files on your Hub (ie. computer) from all the TV's and stereos in your house. It also needs to be inexpensive to encourage consumers to buy multiple devices and build a AV network. The iPod can be the vehicle for bringing your video with you, just plug it in via firewire and all the iBoxes on the network have access to your movies. But if you have to download the videos to your iPod from your computer then plug your iPod into the iBox....too many steps, and too easy for anti-Apple people to say "well you need a Mac, an iPod and an iBox to use them." Make it a stand alone device and either have a PVR that can plug into the hub or build in a tuner/video in to the iMacs.
Originally posted by Amorph
Enh. The cross-platform approach works for the iPod because there's a compelling, platform-agnostic use for the iPod: it's the ultimate Walkman.
If iBox doesn't come into its own until you have iLife, why would any Windows user buy it? There's no hook that I can see, and it doesn't seem to me to add anything completely new and ultimately convenient like the ability to have your entire music collection with you at all times.
It would already add iTunes playback capability, and a QuickTime player embedded, with QuickTime Streaming Server as a Windows app with simple setup ("This is my Movies folder, this is my Pictures folder... done."), would give an iBox Windows user full playback capabilities to their home entertainment center.
*THEN* they realize they could *make their own* if they only had a Mac...
iPod -> iTunes -> GarageBand is one upgrade path. iBox -> playback media (iWatch? )-> iMovie is another.
Originally posted by Harald
It will happen. I bet you.
Am I good or am I good?
We have 3 types of people...
Those of us Apple users that are into home theater / tv / etc keep wanting Apple to do something in this space... (like me)
Those **annoying** people who couldn't care less about HT/TV/etc keep quoting Steve saying "The computer is where you turn on your mind the TV is where you turn it off"
Those **annoying** people who just like to disagree with someone and quote Steve saying "The computer is where you turn on your mind the TV is where you turn it off"
First lets look at the quote:
"The computer is where you turn on your mind the TV is where you turn it off"
Okay... I'm in FULL agreement with this... Sometimes I **WANT** to turn off my mind (I think WE ALL DO - well most of us anyway) so what's the big deal!
The facts:
- Set top boxes fail because they weren't marketed properly nor were they engineered to be easy to use.
- IMHO set top boxes COULD be very successful if they had the ease of use that Apple excels at and marketed with the flair that Apple has shown with the iPod.
Sure, Steve said the computer and TV is not the answer and I agree... My computer is in my computer room and my TV's are scattered in a few different rooms and my main TV and my projector are in my family room... I'm not about to move my computer into the family room and a adding a full blown computer to my family room for the functions I'd want would be way overkill and something my wife would never want to deal with.
I still say Apple could build and be successful with the following device.
- PowerPC based box
- OS X used to power it (cool frontend needed)
- HD 80GB / 160GB?
- Wireless 802.11G
- Ethernet
- Firewire connector
- USB connector
- 7 in 1 / 8 in 1 media reader
- Combo Drive (DVD-R in the high end?)
- Rendezvous
- Remote control
- TV Tuner
- Coax In/Out
- Composite Video Out / (in?)
- Component Video Out / (in?)
- R/L Audio Out / (in?)
- Optical/Coax Audio out
Features should include:
- Play MPEG / Play DVD / Play QT
- Play Audio (too many formats to list)
- Slideshow photos
- TIVO type feature (with subscription to .mac maybe?)
- Rip CD music (maybe an issue but I don't think so)
- Burn slideshows to CD / DVD
- Burn music to CD
- Burn video to DVD (this one could be a problem with Hollywood)
- Share it's content with other 'real computers' via Rendezvous and 802.11 or Ethernet
- Play content (found via Rendez.) from other computers in the house
All of this is something OS X can do NOW!
The hardest thing Apple would need to do (and what they do BEST) is develop the front-end software... This would be the main "MAGIC" that Apple needs to contribute. If successful Apple could turn it into a full blow game console (ala X-Box) in a heartbeat....
Imagine... Apple back into the game console market via a trojan horse in the form of a 'media playing' set top box. That would be interesting!
[edit]
Device Price? Well... lets look at the eMac for an example...
$799.00 = 1GHz PowerPC G4 / 128MB SDRAM / 40GB /Combo
- Strip out the display, keyboard, mouse
- Add wireless remote, more ram and AV i/o options
I think Apple could build the box for about same price... (they'd have to cut into their margins) - the cost Apple pays for shipping / handling / Boxing the eMac (with the CRT weight) must cost em something... so that too could go to the upgrades needed to the device...
Could they do it? Yea... would people pay that much?? I dunno... but I I'd be one for sure...
TIVO 80GB runs $350ish? BUT then you either gotta pay $12.95 each month ($155 per year) or by a 'lifetime' for an additional $299.
So the 'one year' cost of an 80GB TIVO runs $500 + $155 each year after or $650 for a lifetime (till the unit dies). The TIVO doesn't do (or have the ability to do) all the stuff an eMac-ish STB as listed above could do...
Dave
Sharring media is the enitre point of the set-top box idea, or maybe it isnt and I'm thinking of something completely different? But if the SHARRING of media is what people want to do, then why not enable everyone with an iPod or portbale HD to be able to slide it into some docking device that then translates it onto the TV?
Like I said before, Keynote Presentations, quicktime movies, and iPhoto slideshows would be perfect to display off of a harddrive directly to a TV's large screen--All withouth having to take the long and expensive step of burning discs, that dont always turn out.
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
I still think the idea could be elegantly mated to the iPod, and the reason for that is to increase the rate of its market saturation. It works well both ways, it works as another selling point but also as a truly functional device for sharring your media.
Sharring media is the enitre point of the set-top box idea, or maybe it isnt and I'm thinking of something completely different? But if the SHARRING of media is what people want to do, then why not enable everyone with an iPod or portbale HD to be able to slide it into some docking device that then translates it onto the TV?
Like I said before, Keynote Presentations, quicktime movies, and iPhoto slideshows would be perfect to display off of a harddrive directly to a TV's large screen--All withouth having to take the long and expensive step of burning discs, that dont always turn out.
Oh I agree... maybe the Combo/DVD-R could be pulled from the device I imagined above... Also it would help keep Hollywood/RIAA off their backs too..
Dave
...
Imagine, if you will, an Airport-connecting, Rendezvous-enabled, iApp-integrated set top box.
Just plug it in, and hook it up to your TV (and other home theater equipment), and it will instantly connect to your Airport Extreme network (or to your ethernet network, for the wire-bound). Using Rendezvous, it searches out any Macs (and later, PCs) with appropriate iApps loaded, all with no user configuration required. Here's where the iApps come in:
iTunes: Accesses your iTunes library and playlists, letting you play your entire music collection on your big stereo, all without extra wires or clunky "Media Center PC" sitting right there. Plus, if desired, song information and iTunes visuals can play on your TV.
iPhoto: Accesses your iPhoto library and albums, and lets you show slideshows on your TV, with an iTunes-supplied soundtrack, of course. This would be a Mac only feature, unless Apple found a money-making reason to port iPhoto to Windows.
iFlick (or iShow, or iVid... or whatever): A new iApp, which would be a combination of iTunes for video, and a PVR. While watching TV, the set top box can simultaneously beam the video to your Mac, where it'll save it to your harddrive in Quicktime format. iFlick will, of course, manage and organize all your TV shows (and any other Quicktime videos you may have) in a Library and playlists/albums. There could also be an iTunes-like browse feature to search for shows by channel, date, or other meta data (like all your "Friends" episodes, or all movies starring a particular actor). iFlick would integrate with other iApps as well. iMovie could export your completed videos to your iFlick library, just like GarageBand exports to iTunes. Also, iFlick could send saved TV shows to either iMovie for editing (who wants those commercials, anyway?) or directly to iDVD. Plus, once broadband actually gets fast enough, and Apple sorts out an agreement with the Motion Picture Association, there could be an iFlick Movie Store... probably more of a rental store, but whatever. Of course, I shouldn't have to mention it, but iFlick could obviously send any stored videos back to your TV, through the set top box, for later viewing, and would provide all the playback features current PVR users are accustomed to.
iFlick would be a cross-platform iApp, just like iTunes, because it would help sell the set top box (just like iTunes sells the iPod). Plus, when the video store opens, you want a big customer base.
I don't think bandwidth should be a problem... I've never tried streaming video over Airport, but considering the resolution you can get over DSL/cable, and considering how much faster Airport Extreme is than that, there shouldn't be any problem. Plus, Apple wouldn't need to worry about supporting HiDef for a few years, and by then Airport super-duper-extreme will be around anyway.
Plus, cost could be fairly low. It's airport, a processor, and a bunch of memory. You probably wouldn't even need a hard drive, since the Mac is doing all the video recording anyway... unless you want a small one for buffering, and it turns out to be cheaper than extra RAM.
The set top box could all be controlled through an iPod-like interface, although with a very snazzed-up and Aqua-esque appearance. In fact, the remote would not likely need many more controls than those found on an actual iPod. You would basically select the computer from the auto-discovered list, then select the iApp (or more likely, the type of media you're looking for), and then browse the playlists and stuff. Apple could even skip the whole "select the computer" stage, and have the device list media from all connected computers in a blended, seamless list.
...
So there you have it. You don't need an iPod in this solution (and you shouldn't, I don't think)... this product stands on its own. A FireWire port could probably be integrated if you want to allow iPod connectivity, but that would basically just be a bonus. Price is also fairly low, because this isn't a trimmed down computer... it's got just the bare necessities. Plus, it's a lot more functional than what a souped-up iPod dock would provide. For instance, when playing music, you're getting iTunes visuals playing on your TV (streaming from your Mac), rather than just hearing the music from your speakers.
I think the whole iPod integration thing should be handled in the same way Sony integrates their products with MemoryStick. You don't need to use all-Sony / all-MemoryStick products to get all their other gear to work, but if you do go all-Sony, you get extra benefits. In the Apple world, the iPod would add value to the set top box, but wouldn't be required to make it work.