LOL! Well, you started talking about student lounges and your location says (in effect) UNC, so I figured you were talking about your dorm routine from last night or something... and now you're in your office / job location.
The 3rd floor has a student lounge with a short couch for crashing, the 2nd floor has showers. Pretty sweet for those of us who are night owls. I take advantage of it when I work past the bus schedule. Which, since I'm trying to graduate, is more often than I'd like.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
So, the university-level job market is grueling, is it? I have a university branch two miles from my house (the junior college is only one mile away). And I suppose with an MA I could teach freshman English there, couldn't I? But rest assured, not in a million years would I care to get a PhD. Hmmm. Then again.......
It is in English. Just go dig around on the Chronicle's site in October when the job market gets swinging. I was pretty specific when I went on the market last year; that is, I didn't send out a blanket of applications. I applied only for jobs (I was ABD at the time) in my area.
I'll put it to you this way: for ONE of the 60-odd jobs I applied for (a specialist position in mid-Victorian poetry), I was one of FOUR HUNDRED applicants who were actually qualified for the job.
I had an interview with Long Island University for a similar position. Now, here's how that works:
1) You apply for a bunch of jobs. You hand craft each letter so that they're tailored for each university and so they don't read like boilerplate. This is all out of your own pocket.
2) They'll get several hundred applications from all over the world.
3) They'll meet and whittle down their stack to about 25
4) Those 25 people are invited to interview at the MLA convention over Xmas (also out of your own pocket). I missed Xmas with my family for this--it's the only time I go home each year.
5) At MLA, you put on your suit and scramble around from hotel to hotel (MLA took up TEN HOTELS in mid-town Manhatten when it was there) going to interviews.
6) In the interview, you sit on the edge of a bed in a small room and get asked questions: what kind of classes would you teach? tell me about your dissertation? What other research interests do you have? Are youa serial killer?
7) You go home.
8) Within the next few weeks, the universities whittle down the 25 applicants they met with to about 5-10
9) Those people get a phone interview.
10) Of those, they narrow it down to three.
11) Those three are brought in for a campus interview, which is a 2-3 day process: You give a presentation to the faculty and are subsequently grilled; you teach a class or two; you meet with grad students; you meet with faculty; you meet with deans. You're on your feet, dressed to the nines, and not left alone, for 2 solid days.
12) You go home and wait.
13) Until March or April.
Less than 30% of people entering a PhD program will graduate and get a job. Less than 40% of those exiting will land a tenure-track job.
And to make matters worse, there's only a 3-year window for you to be marketable, after which time hiring committees start asking "Why hasn't this guy gotten a job yet?"
The 3rd floor has a student lounge with a short couch for crashing, the 2nd floor has showers. Pretty sweet for those of us who are night owls. I take advantage of it when I work past the bus schedule. Which, since I'm trying to graduate, is more often than I'd like.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
You know, I kinda like it here after all.
Meh. Give us some real advice! I'm trying to figure out if I should become a cynical grad student
Meh. Give us some real advice! I'm trying to figure out if I should become a cynical grad student
If you really like the field, a Master's is a great way to launch yourself ahead in a career. The difference between that and a Bachelor's is usually rather large in most fields.
As for the PhD... the best advice I've ever heard is from Fred Brooks: "If you can live without a PhD, do so. It's not worth it otherwise." He's right. Financially, it's statistically a loss. You'll make more and get further ahead over the course of your career (at least in compsci) by taking the MS and going into industry.
Me, I'm in it for the prestige! The glamour! The babes!
Less than 30% of people entering a PhD program will graduate and get a job. Less than 40% of those exiting will land a tenure-track job.
hey scott, my wife is an english ph.d., and can attest to almost everything you said, except if you think you've got it bad, her focus is old english, narrowing the employment pool down to a puddle at best. but she did manage to land tenure track position her first year out, after last year's mla in new york (she said this year's mla in san diego was particularly bad for number of jobs-per-applicant to go around, at least in her field).
hey scott, my wife is an english ph.d., and can attest to almost everything you said, except if you think you've got it bad, her focus is old english, narrowing the employment pool down to a puddle at best. but she did manage to land tenure track position her first year out, after last year's mla in new york (she said this year's mla in san diego was particularly bad for number of jobs-per-applicant to go around, at least in her field).
Heh. My wife is actually a PhD in OE, as well. She recognized early on that it was a dying field (fewer and fewer departments offer courses in iy these days), and she switched to Tech Writing, where you can pretty much write your own ticket. She had something like 11 job interviews at MLA in NY.
I'm a Victorianist, and the problem with that is that there are simply FAR too many applicants for the positions, and thus the schools can be incredibly picky. I mean, when your top 20 applicants are from Oxbridge, US Ivy Leagues, etc, and all have books and numerous articles, an exiting PhD doesn't stand much of a chance. So it's off to adjunct work, where you have too many classes to get any research done, which means you're not viable on the market the next time, which means it's off to adjunct work, which means you've got too many classes....
Add to that the following: my dissertation director/advisor told me that there were hundreds of people who are on the market every single year--just to see what's out there. They clog up the system and make it impossible for exiting PhDs to get out of the gate without looking like, well, exiting PhDs.
I hope your wife had a good time at MLA in NYC last year. I did. Frankie the bartender was a godsend after a long day.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
Makes me feels so much better that I didn't do a PhD after all (crap interview ) and got a real job instead. However, I think I'll go and steal the Master's course notes, as I feel I've missed out on some topics by doing a joint honours. And the Java ones (last year to do C, murmurmur). I quite fancy learning me some Java.
getting back to the interview stuff, i just had my THIRD interview with one company, and i am just exhausted now. just this two-hour dirge of all your basic questions, as well as bring in EVERYONE ELSE in the company to ask me questions. 10 on 1. ugh.
though they did throw in a couple i hadn't thought about, like "tell me about a time when you broke protocol on the job." considering the fact that my entire JOB requires constant breaking of protocol to get the projects done, that was tough. my brain hurts now, though. i totaled it up, and i have spent NINE hours of time on this one company, and it's not even that great of a job. honestly, i think it stems from the fact that they don't exactly know WHAT they want. plus the manager has only been there for about a month, so i think he's getting used to all this too.
but unless my next interview goes really badly, i'm turning this one down. their benefits S-U-C-K.
getting back to the interview stuff, i just had my THIRD interview with one company, and i am just exhausted now. just this two-hour dirge of all your basic questions, as well as bring in EVERYONE ELSE in the company to ask me questions. 10 on 1. ugh.
though they did throw in a couple i hadn't thought about, like "tell me about a time when you broke protocol on the job." considering the fact that my entire JOB requires constant breaking of protocol to get the projects done, that was tough. my brain hurts now, though. i totaled it up, and i have spent NINE hours of time on this one company, and it's not even that great of a job. honestly, i think it stems from the fact that they don't exactly know WHAT they want. plus the manager has only been there for about a month, so i think he's getting used to all this too.
but unless my next interview goes really badly, i'm turning this one down. their benefits S-U-C-K.
web design mostly. it was a tame example, but basically, they were trying to get the web design stations to switch to pc, and it was up to me to stop them, without just sounding like a fanboy. the operations chief and the IT director controlled all software purchases, and i knew where they stood.
so i brought my copy of virtual pc from home, and installed it and windows 95, 98 and 2000 on my mac, along with every major browser i could get my hands on. then i brought over the production manager, one of the founding members of the company, and said "on one computer, i can design and test on every major operating system and every major browser simultaneously, and you can take this pc you gave me and give it to one of the editors who needs an upgrade, but only if you authorize the purchase of virtual pc and the copies of windows."
i hadn't finished the last sentence before she was signing the check.
(yes, it was cheating, as i had some implicit approval from above, but i definitely did not do it "by the book" to get the job done. edit: oh, and the director of operations was PARTICULARLY fuming at both myself and the production manager for going over her head)
just got a call from a friend, and we were talking about interviews, and he told me about the second interview he just had. he was applying for a graphic design position at a small firm.
the creative director, marketing and sales coordinator, production manager and he all sat down and played PICTIONARY for an hour. he got to see how they think, they got to see how he visualizes, without a computer, how he communicates, deals with criticism, and basically make sure they could all work together in a small pressure environment. (edit: of course, this also shows how he deals with spur-of-the-moment strange ideas and brainstorming... really a great test, and he said it helped take some edge off the proceedings).
WINNER!
(p.s. his team didn't win, but that didn't matter... and he got offered the job. pays $55K to start... lucky bastard)
Comments
This is my OFFICE!!!
Folding cot, sleeping bag, pillow, towel, fridge, tv...
Hmm. That's really pathetic, you know that?
The 3rd floor has a student lounge with a short couch for crashing, the 2nd floor has showers. Pretty sweet for those of us who are night owls. I take advantage of it when I work past the bus schedule. Which, since I'm trying to graduate, is more often than I'd like.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
You know, I kinda like it here after all.
Originally posted by Carol A
So, the university-level job market is grueling, is it? I have a university branch two miles from my house (the junior college is only one mile away). And I suppose with an MA I could teach freshman English there, couldn't I? But rest assured, not in a million years would I care to get a PhD. Hmmm. Then again.......
It is in English. Just go dig around on the Chronicle's site in October when the job market gets swinging. I was pretty specific when I went on the market last year; that is, I didn't send out a blanket of applications. I applied only for jobs (I was ABD at the time) in my area.
I'll put it to you this way: for ONE of the 60-odd jobs I applied for (a specialist position in mid-Victorian poetry), I was one of FOUR HUNDRED applicants who were actually qualified for the job.
I had an interview with Long Island University for a similar position. Now, here's how that works:
1) You apply for a bunch of jobs. You hand craft each letter so that they're tailored for each university and so they don't read like boilerplate. This is all out of your own pocket.
2) They'll get several hundred applications from all over the world.
3) They'll meet and whittle down their stack to about 25
4) Those 25 people are invited to interview at the MLA convention over Xmas (also out of your own pocket). I missed Xmas with my family for this--it's the only time I go home each year.
5) At MLA, you put on your suit and scramble around from hotel to hotel (MLA took up TEN HOTELS in mid-town Manhatten when it was there) going to interviews.
6) In the interview, you sit on the edge of a bed in a small room and get asked questions: what kind of classes would you teach? tell me about your dissertation? What other research interests do you have? Are youa serial killer?
7) You go home.
8) Within the next few weeks, the universities whittle down the 25 applicants they met with to about 5-10
9) Those people get a phone interview.
10) Of those, they narrow it down to three.
11) Those three are brought in for a campus interview, which is a 2-3 day process: You give a presentation to the faculty and are subsequently grilled; you teach a class or two; you meet with grad students; you meet with faculty; you meet with deans. You're on your feet, dressed to the nines, and not left alone, for 2 solid days.
12) You go home and wait.
13) Until March or April.
Less than 30% of people entering a PhD program will graduate and get a job. Less than 40% of those exiting will land a tenure-track job.
And to make matters worse, there's only a 3-year window for you to be marketable, after which time hiring committees start asking "Why hasn't this guy gotten a job yet?"
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by Kickaha
Nope - all in my office. Which, admittedly looks kinda like a dorm room.
Folding cot, sleeping bag, pillow, towel, fridge, tv...
Hmm. That's really pathetic, you know that?
The 3rd floor has a student lounge with a short couch for crashing, the 2nd floor has showers. Pretty sweet for those of us who are night owls. I take advantage of it when I work past the bus schedule. Which, since I'm trying to graduate, is more often than I'd like.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
You know, I kinda like it here after all.
Meh. Give us some real advice! I'm trying to figure out if I should become a cynical grad student
Originally posted by Kickaha
Scott, you bastich, now I'm depressed. :P
Hey, don't bitch to me! Mister I-have-a-cot-in-my-office-AND-a-television.
Originally posted by MCQ
Meh. Give us some real advice! I'm trying to figure out if I should become a cynical grad student
If you really like the field, a Master's is a great way to launch yourself ahead in a career. The difference between that and a Bachelor's is usually rather large in most fields.
As for the PhD... the best advice I've ever heard is from Fred Brooks: "If you can live without a PhD, do so. It's not worth it otherwise." He's right. Financially, it's statistically a loss. You'll make more and get further ahead over the course of your career (at least in compsci) by taking the MS and going into industry.
Me, I'm in it for the prestige! The glamour! The babes!
Oops.
Originally posted by midwinter
Hey, don't bitch to me! Mister I-have-a-cot-in-my-office-AND-a-television.
You forgot the fridge, the espresso machine, and being one hop off the ATM backbone for campus.
Oh, and a *window*!
Originally posted by Kickaha
Oh, and a *window*!
What the hell is a 'window'?
1: get up at 7:30, but hit snooze until about 8
1.5: check all my Mac sites and AI forums
2: classes through the day, with naps and pizza in between
3: dinner in cafeteria, but only end up eating ice ream cause the rest sucks
4: creative time for photoshop, html, video, or anything graphics-related
5: tv for a while (family guy, futurama, etc.) with minor homework going on
during that
6: 11-1 is finish homework/ major creativity (i'm a late-night person)
6.5: late night snack
7: 1-2 am think about going to bed, but persistently keep working on web
pages or video/photo stuff
8: 2-3 wrap up creative stuff, get in bed
9. 3-3:30: fall asleep
*****not included but part of everyday at random times: shower, AI forums, iChat, guitar*****
i'm sure i forgot something, but thats about it. really my days revolve around learning more about my programs and stuff, cause thats all you need.
EDIT: you know, i guess all this was kinda irrelevant, but i saw the other thing so i thought i'd post my sched..... oh well....
Originally posted by midwinter
Less than 30% of people entering a PhD program will graduate and get a job. Less than 40% of those exiting will land a tenure-track job.
hey scott, my wife is an english ph.d., and can attest to almost everything you said, except if you think you've got it bad, her focus is old english, narrowing the employment pool down to a puddle at best. but she did manage to land tenure track position her first year out, after last year's mla in new york (she said this year's mla in san diego was particularly bad for number of jobs-per-applicant to go around, at least in her field).
Originally posted by rok
hey scott, my wife is an english ph.d., and can attest to almost everything you said, except if you think you've got it bad, her focus is old english, narrowing the employment pool down to a puddle at best. but she did manage to land tenure track position her first year out, after last year's mla in new york (she said this year's mla in san diego was particularly bad for number of jobs-per-applicant to go around, at least in her field).
Heh. My wife is actually a PhD in OE, as well. She recognized early on that it was a dying field (fewer and fewer departments offer courses in iy these days), and she switched to Tech Writing, where you can pretty much write your own ticket. She had something like 11 job interviews at MLA in NY.
I'm a Victorianist, and the problem with that is that there are simply FAR too many applicants for the positions, and thus the schools can be incredibly picky. I mean, when your top 20 applicants are from Oxbridge, US Ivy Leagues, etc, and all have books and numerous articles, an exiting PhD doesn't stand much of a chance. So it's off to adjunct work, where you have too many classes to get any research done, which means you're not viable on the market the next time, which means it's off to adjunct work, which means you've got too many classes....
Add to that the following: my dissertation director/advisor told me that there were hundreds of people who are on the market every single year--just to see what's out there. They clog up the system and make it impossible for exiting PhDs to get out of the gate without looking like, well, exiting PhDs.
I hope your wife had a good time at MLA in NYC last year. I did. Frankie the bartender was a godsend after a long day.
Kids: get outta school. Really. Don't end up an embittered cynical old grad student like me. Go get that job in the rat race, working your fingers to the bone for a pittance to make someone else rich, and...
Makes me feels so much better that I didn't do a PhD after all (crap interview
though they did throw in a couple i hadn't thought about, like "tell me about a time when you broke protocol on the job." considering the fact that my entire JOB requires constant breaking of protocol to get the projects done, that was tough. my brain hurts now, though. i totaled it up, and i have spent NINE hours of time on this one company, and it's not even that great of a job. honestly, i think it stems from the fact that they don't exactly know WHAT they want. plus the manager has only been there for about a month, so i think he's getting used to all this too.
but unless my next interview goes really badly, i'm turning this one down. their benefits S-U-C-K.
Originally posted by rok
getting back to the interview stuff, i just had my THIRD interview with one company, and i am just exhausted now. just this two-hour dirge of all your basic questions, as well as bring in EVERYONE ELSE in the company to ask me questions. 10 on 1. ugh.
though they did throw in a couple i hadn't thought about, like "tell me about a time when you broke protocol on the job." considering the fact that my entire JOB requires constant breaking of protocol to get the projects done, that was tough. my brain hurts now, though. i totaled it up, and i have spent NINE hours of time on this one company, and it's not even that great of a job. honestly, i think it stems from the fact that they don't exactly know WHAT they want. plus the manager has only been there for about a month, so i think he's getting used to all this too.
but unless my next interview goes really badly, i'm turning this one down. their benefits S-U-C-K.
what kinda projects required breaking protocol?
Cannot Load Address
Temporarily unable to connect: Protocol Broken
Apache/1.3.29 Server at powermacg4.local Port 80
Originally posted by ipodandimac
what kinda projects required breaking protocol?
web design mostly. it was a tame example, but basically, they were trying to get the web design stations to switch to pc, and it was up to me to stop them, without just sounding like a fanboy. the operations chief and the IT director controlled all software purchases, and i knew where they stood.
so i brought my copy of virtual pc from home, and installed it and windows 95, 98 and 2000 on my mac, along with every major browser i could get my hands on. then i brought over the production manager, one of the founding members of the company, and said "on one computer, i can design and test on every major operating system and every major browser simultaneously, and you can take this pc you gave me and give it to one of the editors who needs an upgrade, but only if you authorize the purchase of virtual pc and the copies of windows."
i hadn't finished the last sentence before she was signing the check.
(yes, it was cheating, as i had some implicit approval from above, but i definitely did not do it "by the book" to get the job done. edit: oh, and the director of operations was PARTICULARLY fuming at both myself and the production manager for going over her head)
just got a call from a friend, and we were talking about interviews, and he told me about the second interview he just had. he was applying for a graphic design position at a small firm.
the creative director, marketing and sales coordinator, production manager and he all sat down and played PICTIONARY for an hour. he got to see how they think, they got to see how he visualizes, without a computer, how he communicates, deals with criticism, and basically make sure they could all work together in a small pressure environment. (edit: of course, this also shows how he deals with spur-of-the-moment strange ideas and brainstorming... really a great test, and he said it helped take some edge off the proceedings).
WINNER!
(p.s. his team didn't win, but that didn't matter... and he got offered the job. pays $55K to start... lucky bastard)