Apache and MySQL are usually compiled when installed on servers as well. Most users cannot compile their software and don't know how. I've had to install Apache before for specific reasons I had to do a recompile and patch its codebase for some stuff. You cannot expect most users to do this.
I don't know of many companies that run MSSQL as thier DB server nor do I know of many companies that run IIS. Those are optional components of the windows system and should have no bearing to argue that windows is less secure by default.
As to changing the DRM, what about Apple trying to force you to upgrade to use the new Safari? You need 10.3 to run the new one... do I see Apple starting some Microsoft practices?
Since you brought up that most Mac users don't upgrade, neither do most windows users. Many people still use Windows 95 to ME and they don't feel the need to upgrade.
I don't run a firewall. I haven't been hacked, I never get viruses. I don't have spyware. This is because I don't click on everything, and time after time people are told not to.
You are putting 80% of the blame on the Company and 20% on the users. It should be the other way.
I meet people all the time that don't know crap about their Apple computers and I've seen them take down their whole OS. So don't even tell me OSX is so much more secure, or easy to work with. Working Techsupport gives me a good insite on to how stupid most users are. I have a harder time fixing OSX problems at work then I do with Windows.
Most problems occur due to lack of knowledge of a user. That is common in all things in life. I don't see why you feel the need to bash Windows all day long, maybe it'll make you feel better, but then you have your own problem.
Actually... as a general purpose user... I don't really have a problem with Windows. I know it's bloated, riddled with security holes (which seem to be increasing in severity instead of visa-versa)and, sometimes, unstable. But as a consumer... it runs what I want it to do and I'm familiar with it (after using everything back to the MSDOS days). What I do have a problem with is Microsoft as a corporation... how they do business and how they deal with competitors. Since the government is clearly never going to do more than slap them on the wrist my only choice was to move to another OS. I also don't have a problem with the x86 platform (people often seem to refer to a "PC" and a Windows machine as one in the same... granted... most x86 machines are running Windows... but... thankfully... Microsoft doesn't make the hardware). I have been looking for an alternative to Windows on the x86 end for a few years. I really really liked BeOS! (Why... why... did you guys give up... well... economics are economics I suppose). I actually just installed the latest version of BeOS a few months ago (the latest version being what... three years or older now) on a machine running with an nVidia nForce2 motherboard, AMD Athlon XP processor and an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (using the DVI with an LCD display)... and it installed, booted, and recognized everything fine right off the bat. It's only the latest versions of Linux that have been able to drive the digital out on my ATI card. I think BeOS was much more consumer friendly than any version of Linux out today. With Be having no future... I went the Linux route for a while... trying every new version... while they're getting better... I can't really consider them as a replacement for a Windows machine (not yet anyway). I was hoping for a port of OS X over to x86... but who knows if that's ever going to happen... So I broke down and picked up a little 12" iBook G4. Now I have a machine that can be completely Microsoft free with a viable consumer OS. It would be so cool if Apple would port X over to x86... of course I really like the idea of having the company that makes the OS, make the hardware also... so you don't have to deal with all driver and compatability issues that you have on an x86 machine... but at least there would be a real option out there for people with x86 machines that don't want to go out and buy a new computer just to not use a MS product.
Apache and MySQL are usually compiled when installed on servers as well. Most users cannot compile their software and don't know how. I've had to install Apache before for specific reasons I had to do a recompile and patch its codebase for some stuff. You cannot expect most users to do this.
But why is IIS and MSSQL less secure? You still haven't answered the question. And if you actually read my first post, I was talking about the SQL Slammer worm slowing down the internet, not just the viruses.
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I don't know of many companies that run MSSQL as thier DB server nor do I know of many companies that run IIS. Those are optional components of the windows system and should have no bearing to argue that windows is less secure by default.
Umm, did you miss the part where I said "I hate MS"? This isn't just about windows. And if companies don't use MSSQL, how was the worm propagated?
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As to changing the DRM, what about Apple trying to force you to upgrade to use the new Safari? You need 10.3 to run the new one... do I see Apple starting some Microsoft practices?
And somehow the users who don't choose to upgrade are left prey to the critical security flaws in Safari? Did I miss something? Safari isn't IE.
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Since you brought up that most Mac users don't upgrade, neither do most windows users. Many people still use Windows 95 to ME and they don't feel the need to upgrade.
And the Mac OS is still more secure than Windows.
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I don't run a firewall. I haven't been hacked, I never get viruses. I don't have spyware. This is because I don't click on everything, and time after time people are told not to.
You're lying.
Quote:
I meet people all the time that don't know crap about their Apple computers and I've seen them take down their whole OS. So don't even tell me OSX is so much more secure, or easy to work with. Working Techsupport gives me a good insite on to how stupid most users are. I have a harder time fixing OSX problems at work then I do with Windows.
Crashing their system and crashing the internet are 2 entirely different things. And who was talking about stability? Not me.... And if you're having trouble with OS X, maybe you should find a new line of work.
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Most problems occur due to lack of knowledge of a user. That is common in all things in life. I don't see why you feel the need to bash Windows all day long, maybe it'll make you feel better, but then you have your own problem.
Again, this isn't just about Windows, but about MS as a whole. The thread is called "I hate MS" not "I hate windows". Please read before you post.
Sorry for the off-topic post. Glad we're back on topic.
Anyway, I can see where you're coming from, scavanger. There are some pretty damn stupid computer users on both sides of the fence. While working at the library, I noticed that someone had put "Bonzi Buddy!" in the start menu of one of the computers at the desk. Now, it's normal for people to install various IM clients because it does get very slow and boring sitting at the desk all the time, but I just don't understand the crap people download for their computers. In that sense, I agree with you that the users can be to blame.
I think the main problem is that while we know that Windows gets attacked by hackers all the time, and Macs are attacked almost never, we don't know what it would be like if the roles of Macs and Windows PCs were reversed. What if everyone used a Mac, running OS X as we know it today? Would there still be new viruses cropping up every month? I think that the fact that "everyone" uses Windows is at least as important as the shoddy programming it uses, probably more important actually. I'm not much of a programming/networking/IT kind of person so I really am not sure how Windows is so bad with security, and I probably wouldn't understand if someone told me. All I have to go on is what I've heard, which has ranged from "somewhat careless" to "intentionally destructive" regarding the security of Windows. Now, if I could find some convincing evidence to show me that despite the half dozen or so major viruses that have cropped up over the past year, Windows is really not that bad, I would be surprised. I accept that airheaded users and the pervasiveness of the OS contribute greatly to the problems.
SQL Slammer wasn't as big a deal as Blaster. IIS and MSSQL are bad products, I don't use them and I don't like them. I'll concede that much to you.
As to the Safari issue, what was Apple's reason again? I think it was some of the code safari relies on is in the kernel. Same could be apply to the DRM issue, with the exeception that the update was availble for the older versions of Windows.
You compare it to security but look at it like this, pay 129 dollars to upgrade and get updates to a program that I already have? or Do I stay with my current one and lose out on stuff, especially since safari on 10.2 really wasn't that good.
Microsoft's updates for IE and WMP are availble to almost all versions of windows, with exception of 3.11 and 95 due to architecture issues. Apple is kind of extorting money out of you by updating the browser they bundle with the system. Seems like kinda the same thing MS was accused to doing by the DOJ.
You just instantly assume that I'm lying when I say I don't get viruses or am hacked? No matter what you may think, most computer users will not get hacked for the simple fact that they have nothing of value to a hacker. Trojan != hacked either. I'm just not stupid, I don't click on stuff I don't know, and I don't open stuff that I'm unfamiliar with. I've used a computer for 10 years, and I've never had a problem with viruses. Just becuase you can't seem to beleive that its possible to have windows secure, doesn't mean that I'm automaticly lying....
If a computer was kept up to date with security patches and virus def's the chances of you having problems are about 20% which is what we see at work here... only 20% of the computers with problems are up to date with their security patches. Usually these computers have more serious issues with hardware failures and just incrediblely difficult problems.
80% of the problems at my job are linked to people not updating their software for the latest security problems. They tell me they are too lazy to do it, and don't want to sign of AIM.
There are plenty of microsoft products that people use that have no problems. XBox, the optical mice, games, these are all great products and they work perfectly fine.
Do you use MS Office? Do you have any Word Documents, or save anything as word? If you have any type of MS product or document, then stop right now with your complaints. If you hate it that much don't use any of it. Don't even hook up to a windows network. But if you do, then you have no right to complain.
OSX is more secure by default, but what it makes up there it lacks in other areas, as Hardware Support, accessories, devices. What Windows lacks in security it makes up for in its ability to support almost any thing you plug into it. Such as a Palm Pilot. They have their weaknesses and pluses both, neither is better then the other in all aspects, where they excell and fail balances them out.
Just becuase a script writing made your disertation harder, it should give you valuable insight on your topic anyway, since you want to use the internet as a medium for mental health, well you just learned about how hard it is. Think of this as a learning lesson and not a bitch session.
Comments
Fifteen seconds to send a shortcut to the recycle bin. I kid you not.
I don't know of many companies that run MSSQL as thier DB server nor do I know of many companies that run IIS. Those are optional components of the windows system and should have no bearing to argue that windows is less secure by default.
As to changing the DRM, what about Apple trying to force you to upgrade to use the new Safari? You need 10.3 to run the new one... do I see Apple starting some Microsoft practices?
Since you brought up that most Mac users don't upgrade, neither do most windows users. Many people still use Windows 95 to ME and they don't feel the need to upgrade.
I don't run a firewall. I haven't been hacked, I never get viruses. I don't have spyware. This is because I don't click on everything, and time after time people are told not to.
You are putting 80% of the blame on the Company and 20% on the users. It should be the other way.
I meet people all the time that don't know crap about their Apple computers and I've seen them take down their whole OS. So don't even tell me OSX is so much more secure, or easy to work with. Working Techsupport gives me a good insite on to how stupid most users are. I have a harder time fixing OSX problems at work then I do with Windows.
Most problems occur due to lack of knowledge of a user. That is common in all things in life. I don't see why you feel the need to bash Windows all day long, maybe it'll make you feel better, but then you have your own problem.
Originally posted by scavanger
Apache and MySQL are usually compiled when installed on servers as well. Most users cannot compile their software and don't know how. I've had to install Apache before for specific reasons I had to do a recompile and patch its codebase for some stuff. You cannot expect most users to do this.
But why is IIS and MSSQL less secure? You still haven't answered the question. And if you actually read my first post, I was talking about the SQL Slammer worm slowing down the internet, not just the viruses.
I don't know of many companies that run MSSQL as thier DB server nor do I know of many companies that run IIS. Those are optional components of the windows system and should have no bearing to argue that windows is less secure by default.
Umm, did you miss the part where I said "I hate MS"? This isn't just about windows. And if companies don't use MSSQL, how was the worm propagated?
As to changing the DRM, what about Apple trying to force you to upgrade to use the new Safari? You need 10.3 to run the new one... do I see Apple starting some Microsoft practices?
And somehow the users who don't choose to upgrade are left prey to the critical security flaws in Safari? Did I miss something? Safari isn't IE.
Since you brought up that most Mac users don't upgrade, neither do most windows users. Many people still use Windows 95 to ME and they don't feel the need to upgrade.
And the Mac OS is still more secure than Windows.
I don't run a firewall. I haven't been hacked, I never get viruses. I don't have spyware. This is because I don't click on everything, and time after time people are told not to.
You're lying.
I meet people all the time that don't know crap about their Apple computers and I've seen them take down their whole OS. So don't even tell me OSX is so much more secure, or easy to work with. Working Techsupport gives me a good insite on to how stupid most users are. I have a harder time fixing OSX problems at work then I do with Windows.
Crashing their system and crashing the internet are 2 entirely different things. And who was talking about stability? Not me.... And if you're having trouble with OS X, maybe you should find a new line of work.
Most problems occur due to lack of knowledge of a user. That is common in all things in life. I don't see why you feel the need to bash Windows all day long, maybe it'll make you feel better, but then you have your own problem.
Again, this isn't just about Windows, but about MS as a whole. The thread is called "I hate MS" not "I hate windows". Please read before you post.
Anyway, I can see where you're coming from, scavanger. There are some pretty damn stupid computer users on both sides of the fence. While working at the library, I noticed that someone had put "Bonzi Buddy!" in the start menu of one of the computers at the desk. Now, it's normal for people to install various IM clients because it does get very slow and boring sitting at the desk all the time, but I just don't understand the crap people download for their computers. In that sense, I agree with you that the users can be to blame.
I think the main problem is that while we know that Windows gets attacked by hackers all the time, and Macs are attacked almost never, we don't know what it would be like if the roles of Macs and Windows PCs were reversed. What if everyone used a Mac, running OS X as we know it today? Would there still be new viruses cropping up every month? I think that the fact that "everyone" uses Windows is at least as important as the shoddy programming it uses, probably more important actually. I'm not much of a programming/networking/IT kind of person so I really am not sure how Windows is so bad with security, and I probably wouldn't understand if someone told me. All I have to go on is what I've heard, which has ranged from "somewhat careless" to "intentionally destructive" regarding the security of Windows. Now, if I could find some convincing evidence to show me that despite the half dozen or so major viruses that have cropped up over the past year, Windows is really not that bad, I would be surprised. I accept that airheaded users and the pervasiveness of the OS contribute greatly to the problems.
As to the Safari issue, what was Apple's reason again? I think it was some of the code safari relies on is in the kernel. Same could be apply to the DRM issue, with the exeception that the update was availble for the older versions of Windows.
You compare it to security but look at it like this, pay 129 dollars to upgrade and get updates to a program that I already have? or Do I stay with my current one and lose out on stuff, especially since safari on 10.2 really wasn't that good.
Microsoft's updates for IE and WMP are availble to almost all versions of windows, with exception of 3.11 and 95 due to architecture issues. Apple is kind of extorting money out of you by updating the browser they bundle with the system. Seems like kinda the same thing MS was accused to doing by the DOJ.
You just instantly assume that I'm lying when I say I don't get viruses or am hacked? No matter what you may think, most computer users will not get hacked for the simple fact that they have nothing of value to a hacker. Trojan != hacked either. I'm just not stupid, I don't click on stuff I don't know, and I don't open stuff that I'm unfamiliar with. I've used a computer for 10 years, and I've never had a problem with viruses. Just becuase you can't seem to beleive that its possible to have windows secure, doesn't mean that I'm automaticly lying....
If a computer was kept up to date with security patches and virus def's the chances of you having problems are about 20% which is what we see at work here... only 20% of the computers with problems are up to date with their security patches. Usually these computers have more serious issues with hardware failures and just incrediblely difficult problems.
80% of the problems at my job are linked to people not updating their software for the latest security problems. They tell me they are too lazy to do it, and don't want to sign of AIM.
There are plenty of microsoft products that people use that have no problems. XBox, the optical mice, games, these are all great products and they work perfectly fine.
Do you use MS Office? Do you have any Word Documents, or save anything as word? If you have any type of MS product or document, then stop right now with your complaints. If you hate it that much don't use any of it. Don't even hook up to a windows network. But if you do, then you have no right to complain.
OSX is more secure by default, but what it makes up there it lacks in other areas, as Hardware Support, accessories, devices. What Windows lacks in security it makes up for in its ability to support almost any thing you plug into it. Such as a Palm Pilot. They have their weaknesses and pluses both, neither is better then the other in all aspects, where they excell and fail balances them out.
Just becuase a script writing made your disertation harder, it should give you valuable insight on your topic anyway, since you want to use the internet as a medium for mental health, well you just learned about how hard it is. Think of this as a learning lesson and not a bitch session.