I don't think this article has any real inside information, it's just speculation. So maybe I'll speculate a bit.
I think Steve Jobs wants to make a PDA/Phone. He wants to because he has a vision for how to make a device that's worlds better than anything out there.
The problem is the market. There's no dominant phone because people buy based on very different factors. Some people want a free phone. Some want a camera. Some want a small phone. Some want PDA functions. Making a single PDA/Phone that would be very popular (even 1/10 as popular as the iPod) would be very difficult. Making several PDA/Phones is expensive and some of them wouldn't be the killer device that Steve wants to make.
Here's what I think Steve wants (and what I want too):
He's said that PDAs are going away, being replaced by phones. iPods are still taking off. So, take an iPod mini and a Sony P900 and breed them. Small form factor, large screen, and tiny HD. Either the scroll wheel or the numeric pad will have to be virtual. One can be physical and on the flip down piece, and the other on screen. The iPhone would play MP3s and iTunes songs, and do everything that a PDA and phone can do.
It's just now becoming technologically possible to make such a device. I figure there will be a few companies making something like this in the next few years. Apple will only make one if they can guarantee that it will sell extremely well, and I'm not sure they can.
The device would be expensive ($500 for a 4GB iPhone?, $600?) They have no relationship with any providers. They have no experience building phones. There's a lot of negatives.
The positives are that Apple can brand the device as an iPod and it will get a lot of attention. If the iTunes store is still killing the competition it will have quite a market. If they make one of these before the competition then they will be heralded as the creator of the holy grail of digital devices.
I know I would want one, but could I afford it? Could many people afford it? I think Steve is itching to make this if the market conditions are right. Let's hope they are.
I apple small portable device (i don't know if it's a PDA) will be introduced. WTF do you think inkwell was created for? Why do you think they continue to update it? Why is the entire newton team (what's left of them) slaving away at Apple on handwritting recognition? For the 1 in 10,000 users who have a wacom tablet? I think not. There's a reason that inkwell exists, and you will see.
most people want it all, pda features, input with stylus , iSync, BT and phone
but it's here in the sony p900 the treo would do better if it had BT and iSync
I want to only carrry one product, because each product requires cords, battery adapter etc. So if iPod is also part of this future it has to be a iPod +treo with BT or Use the iPod mini with input , BT and phone.
Will apple be in the "smartphone" group or not. it is ipod based or not???
I'm looking for just that smartphone, BT and player that can handle ACC format,
If smartphones are the future will apple partner with someone to allow ACC format? another format battle front.
Shouldn't we be hearing about new cellphones soon, isn't spring when those announcements are made?? with the success of the ipod i would think someone would answer those needs.
I don't think this article has any real inside information, it's just speculation. So maybe I'll speculate a bit.
I think Steve Jobs wants to make a PDA/Phone. He wants to because he has a vision for how to make a device that's worlds better than anything out there.
The problem is the market. There's no dominant phone because people buy based on very different factors. Some people want a free phone. Some want a camera. Some want a small phone. Some want PDA functions. Making a single PDA/Phone that would be very popular (even 1/10 as popular as the iPod) would be very difficult. Making several PDA/Phones is expensive and some of them wouldn't be the killer device that Steve wants to make.
Here's what I think Steve wants (and what I want too):
He's said that PDAs are going away, being replaced by phones. iPods are still taking off. So, take an iPod mini and a Sony P900 and breed them. Small form factor, large screen, and tiny HD. Either the scroll wheel or the numeric pad will have to be virtual. One can be physical and on the flip down piece, and the other on screen. The iPhone would play MP3s and iTunes songs, and do everything that a PDA and phone can do.
It's just now becoming technologically possible to make such a device. I figure there will be a few companies making something like this in the next few years. Apple will only make one if they can guarantee that it will sell extremely well, and I'm not sure they can.
The device would be expensive ($500 for a 4GB iPhone?, $600?) They have no relationship with any providers. They have no experience building phones. There's a lot of negatives.
The positives are that Apple can brand the device as an iPod and it will get a lot of attention. If the iTunes store is still killing the competition it will have quite a market. If they make one of these before the competition then they will be heralded as the creator of the holy grail of digital devices.
I know I would want one, but could I afford it? Could many people afford it? I think Steve is itching to make this if the market conditions are right. Let's hope they are.
Oh, people can and will afford it. If it is done right, it will be a killer app. A couple of things though. I agree fully the time has come to nail the storage space problem. Flash memory isn't doing the trick - and the form factor of the miniPod proves how possible it is to have a good amount of storage in a very small space. Cracking this will really open the floodgates in terms of having full size attachments from email syncing, large photos, music of course etc etc.
But equally, another way of manipulating the device has to be found. Pen based computing doesn't really do the trick -it has to be one handed, right? One handed, and only one or two clicks, instead of the 6-10 you sometimes have to go through on pocket PCs or on phones.
I was looking into the p900 but at $799 it's too pricey for me. The new Sony clie TH55 comes close to what I want, resolution that exceeds PocketPC, reasonable price of $400 but I can get it with 15% off from a contact at MacMall, built-in wifi and Mac compatibility. It has no phone capabilities unfortunately but I can overlook that. Perhaps a future memory stick pro module will allow for cellular capabilities with a BT headset.
I made this a couple minutes ago. It's based on the iPod mini design.
The ideal Apple PDA would have
A processor based on the PowerPC 440 core with these specs (in a SOC design): at least 400MHz if not 500MHz; networking; embedded memory (32MB for OS X based operating system); multimedia DSP.
Nice mockup, Outsider! This is the ideal hardware configuration. No opening doors or hinges, no keyboard, a very rugged case, no moving parts. Nice large screen.
I've had Palms, PocketPCs, cellphones and Newtons, and have come to think that the large screen of the Newton is a big advantage. Taking notes on a T68i is impossible; on the Palms and PocketPCs, it's very cumbersome.
Quibbles: Both bluetooth and wifi? Hm.
I think we can dispense with the scrollwheel and buttons too, maybe.
Question: Will the dock connector wear out? Do we only need it for charging?
I think a directional button is almost necessary in any PDA so you can access stuff with out a stylus and the scroll functionality is just an added bonus.
I'm working on a docking option that will use the iPod connector to use it for charging and syncing with the Mac like the iPod uses it, but also for solo operation. It will have charging capability and ports (firewire, USB, audio, and iBook-like video port). The docking station would make for a great presentation platform, with the video and audio out and the USB port would allow for keyboard input. Firewire port would let you sync with other "iPads", iPods, mounting the iPad on Mac desktops, transferring video from a camera, etc.
The "Sweet Spot" for a pda is probably in the $100-200 range, not $500. I bought my palm at around $250, but wouldn't replace it with a new one for much more than $150.
I don't know what the, ahem "Mega-Trend" along these lines is, however, I'm starting to see a lot of people running around with large cell phones, with color displays ... I think Uncle Steve was right in that PDA's and cell phones are colliding, and the result is looking more Cell phone, than PDA ...
Let's face it, in the corporate world, where image is half your paycheck, the primary function of such shiny gadgeteria is image enhancement ... and I think the cache of the PDA has gone way down since '96, so half the value is lost (OK, so you can actually do stuff on it, well, big deal)... at this point, you might be looked upon as a fool to carry a novel-sized block of metal in your pocket AND a cell phone. Yes, I realize the block of metal is far more powerful than a cell phone, but let's face, the only real function these blocks of metal provide is image enhancement anyway ... I'd be willing to bet quite a lot of cash that almost nobody is using their OQO as their main pc ... the primary function is likely the kind of things you can do on your cell phone's organizer anyway ... so why carry around the extra clunky weight, especially if it won't get you laid any more?
Freakin'humans and their status symbol victim ways, sheeesh.
I remember back in, I guess, '98, my buddy was going to try to pick up this waitress, his very words where "wait a second, let me get out all my toys ..." out came the PDA, the Cell phone, bla bla
These days, that would never work, but one expensive sexy cell phone serves the same function as a well tailored suit of old.
Once again, freakin' humans and their status symbol bla bla bla
The "Sweet Spot" for a pda is probably in the $100-200 range, not $500. I bought my palm at around $250, but wouldn't replace it with a new one for much more than $150.
Your sweetspot may be that, but for $100-$200 there is nothing out there that will meet MY needs without adding costly add-ons.
But SJ said "No way" and the problems is that the market is the same of the current PDA market but with the limitation that there is no software house that will develop software for Apple. Is hard to find software for Macosx.. imagine how will be difficult for an apple pda.. Apple could build the best pda but no one will buy it..
b- Build a video iPod
Who will buy (at least $500) a big gadget to watch mtv video in metro?...
I don't know... music is different, as SJ said, with iPod you have the same experience of walkman.. the iPod is an evolution of walkman, but video iPod should be evolution of video player that already exist but they are expensive and too much big to carry in a pocket. Have you seen some one with Archos or Lyra walking and watching into one of these device? I don't think is cool.
c- Build a subsubnotebook like Oqo
I don't know if Apple can technically build somethink like that. I like that device but I think won't sell for is too much expensive ($2000!).
d- Build a pda/phone
Like "a". Difficult market.
e- A new device with wifi and 3G for web surfing
A device only for websurfing, that you can use at home with your personal airport or outside everywhere there is a wifi point. Like Blackberry you can check everytime your mail, video ichat and so on. (and, why not, watch videos). Outsider rendering is very nice! Could have that form.
f- A new device with gps for travelling
An electronic travelling guide (as I described before)
g- An evolution of iPod with video playback but only for tv and monitors.
The "Sweet Spot" for a pda is probably in the $100-200 range, not $500. I bought my palm at around $250, but wouldn't replace it with a new one for much more than $150.
I know what you mean, but I think that's because a $150 Palm does exactly the same as a $500 Palm. There's a huge premium for features like Bluetooth, SD slots simply because if a Zire 21 had them nobody would buy Tungsten Ws.
But at the end of the day Palms are address book devices not portable computers... yet I'd love a Clie PEG UX50
Comments
I think Steve Jobs wants to make a PDA/Phone. He wants to because he has a vision for how to make a device that's worlds better than anything out there.
The problem is the market. There's no dominant phone because people buy based on very different factors. Some people want a free phone. Some want a camera. Some want a small phone. Some want PDA functions. Making a single PDA/Phone that would be very popular (even 1/10 as popular as the iPod) would be very difficult. Making several PDA/Phones is expensive and some of them wouldn't be the killer device that Steve wants to make.
Here's what I think Steve wants (and what I want too):
He's said that PDAs are going away, being replaced by phones. iPods are still taking off. So, take an iPod mini and a Sony P900 and breed them. Small form factor, large screen, and tiny HD. Either the scroll wheel or the numeric pad will have to be virtual. One can be physical and on the flip down piece, and the other on screen. The iPhone would play MP3s and iTunes songs, and do everything that a PDA and phone can do.
It's just now becoming technologically possible to make such a device. I figure there will be a few companies making something like this in the next few years. Apple will only make one if they can guarantee that it will sell extremely well, and I'm not sure they can.
The device would be expensive ($500 for a 4GB iPhone?, $600?) They have no relationship with any providers. They have no experience building phones. There's a lot of negatives.
The positives are that Apple can brand the device as an iPod and it will get a lot of attention. If the iTunes store is still killing the competition it will have quite a market. If they make one of these before the competition then they will be heralded as the creator of the holy grail of digital devices.
I know I would want one, but could I afford it? Could many people afford it? I think Steve is itching to make this if the market conditions are right. Let's hope they are.
the problem is focus a marketing strategy.
A phone has a killer app: call someone
ipod has a killer app too: music
digital camera
phot camera
and so on
every digital gadget is born to accomplish one simple task.
The next apple device has to do one big thing.
like oqo: is a very small pc.
http://minipc.vulcan.com/default.asp
Do you think that apple can do the same?
Originally posted by nevoz
here is another one (Paul Allen!!) who is trying something.
like oqo: is a very small pc.
http://minipc.vulcan.com/default.asp
Sorry, somewhat off topic but:
What a shameless ripoff of Apple's Switch page:
http://minipc.vulcan.com/howiuseit.asp
Look familiar?
http://www.apple.com/switch/
but it's here in the sony p900 the treo would do better if it had BT and iSync
I want to only carrry one product, because each product requires cords, battery adapter etc. So if iPod is also part of this future it has to be a iPod +treo with BT or Use the iPod mini with input , BT and phone.
Will apple be in the "smartphone" group or not. it is ipod based or not???
I'm looking for just that smartphone, BT and player that can handle ACC format,
If smartphones are the future will apple partner with someone to allow ACC format? another format battle front.
Shouldn't we be hearing about new cellphones soon, isn't spring when those announcements are made?? with the success of the ipod i would think someone would answer those needs.
Originally posted by spankalee
I don't think this article has any real inside information, it's just speculation. So maybe I'll speculate a bit.
I think Steve Jobs wants to make a PDA/Phone. He wants to because he has a vision for how to make a device that's worlds better than anything out there.
The problem is the market. There's no dominant phone because people buy based on very different factors. Some people want a free phone. Some want a camera. Some want a small phone. Some want PDA functions. Making a single PDA/Phone that would be very popular (even 1/10 as popular as the iPod) would be very difficult. Making several PDA/Phones is expensive and some of them wouldn't be the killer device that Steve wants to make.
Here's what I think Steve wants (and what I want too):
He's said that PDAs are going away, being replaced by phones. iPods are still taking off. So, take an iPod mini and a Sony P900 and breed them. Small form factor, large screen, and tiny HD. Either the scroll wheel or the numeric pad will have to be virtual. One can be physical and on the flip down piece, and the other on screen. The iPhone would play MP3s and iTunes songs, and do everything that a PDA and phone can do.
It's just now becoming technologically possible to make such a device. I figure there will be a few companies making something like this in the next few years. Apple will only make one if they can guarantee that it will sell extremely well, and I'm not sure they can.
The device would be expensive ($500 for a 4GB iPhone?, $600?) They have no relationship with any providers. They have no experience building phones. There's a lot of negatives.
The positives are that Apple can brand the device as an iPod and it will get a lot of attention. If the iTunes store is still killing the competition it will have quite a market. If they make one of these before the competition then they will be heralded as the creator of the holy grail of digital devices.
I know I would want one, but could I afford it? Could many people afford it? I think Steve is itching to make this if the market conditions are right. Let's hope they are.
Oh, people can and will afford it. If it is done right, it will be a killer app. A couple of things though. I agree fully the time has come to nail the storage space problem. Flash memory isn't doing the trick - and the form factor of the miniPod proves how possible it is to have a good amount of storage in a very small space. Cracking this will really open the floodgates in terms of having full size attachments from email syncing, large photos, music of course etc etc.
But equally, another way of manipulating the device has to be found. Pen based computing doesn't really do the trick -it has to be one handed, right? One handed, and only one or two clicks, instead of the 6-10 you sometimes have to go through on pocket PCs or on phones.
Cheers
found that link over at:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...threadid=60691
Cool, but too thick and an irritating keyboard.
Aries 1B
Originally posted by Aries 1B
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/video/
Jobs was an idiot for turning OQO down.
The ideal Apple PDA would have
A processor based on the PowerPC 440 core with these specs (in a SOC design): at least 400MHz if not 500MHz; networking; embedded memory (32MB for OS X based operating system); multimedia DSP.
A mini HDD, starting at 10GB and going up.
SD card slot for expansion.
Bluetooth and WiFi standard.
Capable of phone calls with optional BT headset.
Rechargeable Lithium-ion polymer battery.
NO CAMERA!
What do you all think? I'd buy it for $500.
Originally posted by Outsider
I made this a couple minutes ago...
What do you all think? I'd buy it for $500.
I'm afraid that we have reached a parting of the ways here in the virtual Church of the Apple PDA.
"...and He stated that Bluetooth shall be STANDARD! Not OPTIONAL!"
Seek Truth in the Book of Fran441. Followers of the Book of Kormac are heretics, and will be stamped out!
The People's Front for the Flipping Keyboard are heretics also! Follow not the PFFK!
Aries 1B
I've had Palms, PocketPCs, cellphones and Newtons, and have come to think that the large screen of the Newton is a big advantage. Taking notes on a T68i is impossible; on the Palms and PocketPCs, it's very cumbersome.
Quibbles: Both bluetooth and wifi? Hm.
I think we can dispense with the scrollwheel and buttons too, maybe.
Question: Will the dock connector wear out? Do we only need it for charging?
I'm working on a docking option that will use the iPod connector to use it for charging and syncing with the Mac like the iPod uses it, but also for solo operation. It will have charging capability and ports (firewire, USB, audio, and iBook-like video port). The docking station would make for a great presentation platform, with the video and audio out and the USB port would allow for keyboard input. Firewire port would let you sync with other "iPads", iPods, mounting the iPad on Mac desktops, transferring video from a camera, etc.
Originally posted by Blackcat
Jobs was an idiot for turning OQO down.
BTW ... is the OQO selling?
I don't know what the, ahem "Mega-Trend" along these lines is, however, I'm starting to see a lot of people running around with large cell phones, with color displays ... I think Uncle Steve was right in that PDA's and cell phones are colliding, and the result is looking more Cell phone, than PDA ...
Let's face it, in the corporate world, where image is half your paycheck, the primary function of such shiny gadgeteria is image enhancement ... and I think the cache of the PDA has gone way down since '96, so half the value is lost (OK, so you can actually do stuff on it, well, big deal)... at this point, you might be looked upon as a fool to carry a novel-sized block of metal in your pocket AND a cell phone. Yes, I realize the block of metal is far more powerful than a cell phone, but let's face, the only real function these blocks of metal provide is image enhancement anyway ... I'd be willing to bet quite a lot of cash that almost nobody is using their OQO as their main pc ... the primary function is likely the kind of things you can do on your cell phone's organizer anyway ... so why carry around the extra clunky weight, especially if it won't get you laid any more?
Freakin'humans and their status symbol victim ways, sheeesh.
I remember back in, I guess, '98, my buddy was going to try to pick up this waitress, his very words where "wait a second, let me get out all my toys ..." out came the PDA, the Cell phone, bla bla
These days, that would never work, but one expensive sexy cell phone serves the same function as a well tailored suit of old.
Once again, freakin' humans and their status symbol bla bla bla
Originally posted by @homenow
The "Sweet Spot" for a pda is probably in the $100-200 range, not $500. I bought my palm at around $250, but wouldn't replace it with a new one for much more than $150.
Your sweetspot may be that, but for $100-$200 there is nothing out there that will meet MY needs without adding costly add-ons.
a- Build a PDA
But SJ said "No way" and the problems is that the market is the same of the current PDA market but with the limitation that there is no software house that will develop software for Apple. Is hard to find software for Macosx.. imagine how will be difficult for an apple pda.. Apple could build the best pda but no one will buy it..
b- Build a video iPod
Who will buy (at least $500) a big gadget to watch mtv video in metro?...
I don't know... music is different, as SJ said, with iPod you have the same experience of walkman.. the iPod is an evolution of walkman, but video iPod should be evolution of video player that already exist but they are expensive and too much big to carry in a pocket. Have you seen some one with Archos or Lyra walking and watching into one of these device? I don't think is cool.
c- Build a subsubnotebook like Oqo
I don't know if Apple can technically build somethink like that. I like that device but I think won't sell for is too much expensive ($2000!).
d- Build a pda/phone
Like "a". Difficult market.
e- A new device with wifi and 3G for web surfing
A device only for websurfing, that you can use at home with your personal airport or outside everywhere there is a wifi point. Like Blackberry you can check everytime your mail, video ichat and so on. (and, why not, watch videos). Outsider rendering is very nice! Could have that form.
f- A new device with gps for travelling
An electronic travelling guide (as I described before)
g- An evolution of iPod with video playback but only for tv and monitors.
What do you think?
Any idea?
Originally posted by @homenow
The "Sweet Spot" for a pda is probably in the $100-200 range, not $500. I bought my palm at around $250, but wouldn't replace it with a new one for much more than $150.
I know what you mean, but I think that's because a $150 Palm does exactly the same as a $500 Palm. There's a huge premium for features like Bluetooth, SD slots simply because if a Zire 21 had them nobody would buy Tungsten Ws.
But at the end of the day Palms are address book devices not portable computers... yet I'd love a Clie PEG UX50
Originally posted by OverToasty
BTW ... is the OQO selling?
I'm still not convinced it exists yet...