Well, I made it through 3 years of college Computer Science courses just using my Mac, but now I'm at the point where I need a development PC for a class I'm taking. I had my Mac with Virtual PC running but it was just too slow to really get any work done.
So I'm going to build a PC. I'm not looking to break the bank but since I'm building one, I figure I might as well have it so I can run some games as well. I've never had a PC before and know there are people here who have experience in building them, so if there are any sites you can point me to, it would be greatly appreciated.
The college will basically give me a copy of Windows, Visual Studio, and Office with Frontpage so that's a plus, but I'm still going to need all the parts to build the acutal PC and I need a monitor as well.
Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Without knowing how much you want to spend it is hard to supply really helpful information. If you could give an approximate price range I'd be happy to suggest components.
Here is an example of a low budget, but decent $700.00 gaming rig:
Case: Antec with 350W power supply -- about $70.00
Processor: AMD Athlon XP 2600+ "barton" retail -- about $100.00
Motherboard: ABIT NF7-S r2 (built in SATA, Firewire, Ethernet, sound, usb 2) -- about $90.00
Memory: 512MB PC2700 (name brand) -- about $90.00
Floppy Drive: any brand -- about $10.00
Seagate 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive -- about $85.00
optical Drive: lite on Combo Drive (CD-R x42, CD WR x24, DVD ROMx16) -- about $50.00
Video Card OEM: Radeon 9800pro -- about $215.00
If the above is a little too expensive I'd cut down on the video card (you can always upgrade it later). If you were thinking about spending a little more I'd up the processor speed to an AMD Athlon XP 2800+
If you want to spend a few hundred more then there are a lot of options and you might want to go with an intel or AMD 64 system.
As for monitors: I just got a 19" View Sonic A90f+ for about $230.00. So far it seems pretty good.
Good parts suppliers would be newegg and mwave (but always use pricewatch.com to see what's out there).
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
I just built a very similar rig to those specs you just mentioned.
I have a BFG GeForce 5900 which costs less than $150 though - seems like a steal for the price, but 9800s are dropping fast. If you aren't going to game on this thing go with an nForce board with integrated graphics. Saves you a ton of money.
Also, I personally wouldn't pay for too much more in the way of an Athlon XP above 2500+ or 2600+. At the point AMD is in their production of these things, they are all pretty much overclockable to 3200+ ranges (mine runs fine at 3200+ speeds with stock cooling).
One big difference is that Athlon XP is on the way out (Socket A) and Athlon 64 is on the way in. So the XP and XP motherboards are more of a dead-end - which impacts your upgradability (but also probably the price).
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
Just trying to figure out all of my options.
I won't comment on either as I don't remember enough on either to give a good analysis, but I will point you over to Anandtech's CPU section, where you should have plenty of Articles and benchmarks to feed off of.
Specifically, the Athlon 3000+ Article will help you with the second question, the Athlon 64: Judgement Day Article will help you with the first question.
Since you're sort of in my neighborhood, you might consider getting some of what you need at a place called Showtime Computers in Hudson, NH. I built a PC a few months ago, getting half of the stuff from Showtime and the other half from CompUSA.
What I built: AMD XP 2500, Albatron mobo, 80 GB Western Digital hard drive, 512 MB RAM (definitely should pick up another half gig), LiteOn combo drive, FireWire, Radeon 9200 SE with DVI. Total cost was around $670.
To tell you the truth, a comparable Dell was around the same price after rebate, with a free second optical drive thrown in, and a better warranty. For some reason, however, I just can't bring myself to buy a Dell, plus I enjoy putting my own PCs together anyway.
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
Just trying to figure out all of my options.
Basically what Eugene said above. The Athlon 64 is faster than the XP, uses a different socket, and is the successor to the XP line.
Currently there are two types of 64 bit Athlons and they use different sockets. The Athlon 64 FX 51 Is a slightly modified Opteron, and uses socket-940. The Athlon 64 3400+ uses a Socket-754
The Athlon 64 FX 51 is only slightly faster than the Athlon 64 3400+ and costs nearly twice as much, so I would go for the 64 3400+.
The Athlon 64 3400+ is faster than P4 3.2GHz and the P4EE 3.2GHz at just about everything except media encoding (so is the The Athlon 64 3200+ for that matter).
The Athlon 64 3000+ compares well to the P4 3GHz (and even the P4 3.2GHz on some games).
I think I'm leaning towards the Athlon 64 since it seems to be better for a development box and it looks like it will play games without an issue either. Any suggestions on a motherboard? I think I've got a case picked out, going with a 350 watt power supply, 80-120 GB Hard Drive, 512 MB RAM (maybe 1 GB if I have the cash, can always add that later), and I'm not sure about the graphics card yet.
Thanks for all of the help. It certainly has been a good learning experience so far.
I've been using Asus boards for years. The only time I got burned by one was the last time, when I got an Nforce2 board (Nvidia-based chipset). It wasn't Asus; there was a corruption issue of most Nforce2 boards, regardless of manufacturer. I returned it (Newegg BTW) and got an ASUS VIA KT600 board.
Asus + AMD + Via =
Screed ...and the only reason that I will build another PC is for Half-Life 2
If you are going to go with an Athlon 64 you might want to bump the power supply up to a 400 watts just to be on the safe side.
I'm not really sure which mother board is best for the Athlon 64, I've heard some nice things about the ASUS K8V Deluxe and the Abit KV8-MAX3, but I haven't really looked over all the options.
Currently there are two types of 64 bit Athlons and they use different sockets. The Athlon 64 FX 51 Is a slightly modified Opteron, and uses socket-940. The Athlon 64 3400+ uses a Socket-754
Very soon to be Socket 939 too. It looks like Socket 754 is going to be the Socket 423 of the AMD64 world. As Fran441 grows even more confused...
Very soon to be Socket 939 too. It looks like Socket 754 is going to be the Socket 423 of the AMD64 world. As Fran441 grows even more confused...
LOL - that's why I didn't mention the socket 939, it is still few months away and I thought it was confusing enough already. But your right, I expect that by next year the 754 is going to be phazed out.
Wow, people are really throwing around a lot of opinions with no reasoning to back them up. Here are mine, student budget version, bit of focus on quietness.
- Antec cases = good. I'd go with Antec Sonata for quietness. I'd also choose a Seagate hard disk for the same reason, and make sure the processor fan is a low-speed one. Antec cases give you goodies like reusable filter in air intake.
- for general development work (you didn't specify what kind of dev you do) regular Athlons or P4's are okay, you probably don't need anything priced above 100$. VC++ is not processor hungry, and your project is not likely to be gigantic in size.
- for gaming, processor matters even less, it's mostly the graphics card
- I'd look for the "second fastest" ATI graphics card, right now it's the 9600XT. If you're willing to track them down you can find slightly better deals on the older 9500/9600/9700 models. Names and numbers are deceiving, the "Pro" models tend to be a lot faster than the next generation cheaper card with bigger numbering. Tom's Hardware Guide (http://tomshardware.com) benchmarks are the way to figure out what's what in graphics
edit: almost forgot my best computer saving tip: buy an excellent display, you'll still have the display after two whole PC systems are obsolete, and by then it feels it was a bargain..
Wow, people are really throwing around a lot of opinions with no reasoning to back them up. Here are mine, student budget version, bit of focus on quietness.
-Snip -
- for gaming, processor matters even less, it's mostly the graphics card
-Snip -
For many games, like UT2004 and Unreal XMP, the processor power is extremely important. So is the video card. You don't want to skimp on either one.
Of course, that being said I sort of agree with you: for a budget system I recommended an Athlon XP 2600+ and a Radeon 9800Pro. If you have a bit more money to spend I'd go with a faster processor.
My gaming rig is an Athlon XP 2100+ with a Radeon 9600XT and I have to keep the games setting down to low and medium in order to have usable frame rates in XMP, and on some maps it drops down to 10fps (I really need to upgrade my system).
For many games, like UT2004 and Unreal XMP, the processor power is extremely important. So is the video card. You don't want to skimp on either one.
Of course, that being said I sort of agree with you: for a budget system I recommended an Athlon XP 2600+ and a Radeon 9800Pro. If you have a bit more money to spend I'd go with a faster processor.
My gaming rig is an Athlon XP 2100+ with a Radeon 9600XT and I have to keep the games setting down to low and medium in order to have usable frame rates in XMP, and on some maps it drops down to 10fps (I really need to upgrade my system).
Wow.. the requirements have really gone up.
Thanks for pointing this out. I would've thought your gaming rig specs were enough for anything that's out now.
Is the bottleneck the processor, the graphics card or both? What resolutions are you using?
Thanks for pointing this out. I would've thought your gaming rig specs were enough for anything that's out now.
Is the bottleneck the processor, the graphics card or both? What resolutions are you using?
My rig runs some games, like warcraft III, just fine. It is only the new games, like unreal XMP that are too much for it. The only people I know who can play XMP at decent frame rates with all the eye-candy on are the ones with top of the line processors and video cards.
My usual resolution is 1024x768, but I dropped it down to 800x600 for UT2k4. Unfortunately the bottle neck for my rig is both the processor and video card. Hopefully I'll be able to upgrade the processor in a week or two and see how how much it helps. I'll have to wait a few more months for a new video card.
What I like about the AthlonXP or Athlon 64 plus nForce set-up is there's nothing to do but plug in drives and install software. Not the best video, not the best audio, but good enough for the price. Saves money, saves time.
Get a good power-supply. Weak power supplies will crap-out if you throw a bunch of HDD's in there, with hotter graphics, CPU, and PCI cards.
Comments
Originally posted by Fran441
Well, I made it through 3 years of college Computer Science courses just using my Mac, but now I'm at the point where I need a development PC for a class I'm taking. I had my Mac with Virtual PC running but it was just too slow to really get any work done.
So I'm going to build a PC. I'm not looking to break the bank but since I'm building one, I figure I might as well have it so I can run some games as well. I've never had a PC before and know there are people here who have experience in building them, so if there are any sites you can point me to, it would be greatly appreciated.
The college will basically give me a copy of Windows, Visual Studio, and Office with Frontpage so that's a plus, but I'm still going to need all the parts to build the acutal PC and I need a monitor as well.
Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Without knowing how much you want to spend it is hard to supply really helpful information. If you could give an approximate price range I'd be happy to suggest components.
Here is an example of a low budget, but decent $700.00 gaming rig:
Case: Antec with 350W power supply -- about $70.00
Processor: AMD Athlon XP 2600+ "barton" retail -- about $100.00
Motherboard: ABIT NF7-S r2 (built in SATA, Firewire, Ethernet, sound, usb 2) -- about $90.00
Memory: 512MB PC2700 (name brand) -- about $90.00
Floppy Drive: any brand -- about $10.00
Seagate 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive -- about $85.00
optical Drive: lite on Combo Drive (CD-R x42, CD WR x24, DVD ROMx16) -- about $50.00
Video Card OEM: Radeon 9800pro -- about $215.00
If the above is a little too expensive I'd cut down on the video card (you can always upgrade it later). If you were thinking about spending a little more I'd up the processor speed to an AMD Athlon XP 2800+
If you want to spend a few hundred more then there are a lot of options and you might want to go with an intel or AMD 64 system.
As for monitors: I just got a 19" View Sonic A90f+ for about $230.00. So far it seems pretty good.
Good parts suppliers would be newegg and mwave (but always use pricewatch.com to see what's out there).
A good site for the build-it-yourselfer would be http://www.sharkyforums.com
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
Just trying to figure out all of my options.
I have a BFG GeForce 5900 which costs less than $150 though - seems like a steal for the price, but 9800s are dropping fast. If you aren't going to game on this thing go with an nForce board with integrated graphics. Saves you a ton of money.
Also, I personally wouldn't pay for too much more in the way of an Athlon XP above 2500+ or 2600+. At the point AMD is in their production of these things, they are all pretty much overclockable to 3200+ ranges (mine runs fine at 3200+ speeds with stock cooling).
One big difference is that Athlon XP is on the way out (Socket A) and Athlon 64 is on the way in. So the XP and XP motherboards are more of a dead-end - which impacts your upgradability (but also probably the price).
www.endpcnoise.com
excellent service & very knowledgeble support
another great place to buy is www.newegg.com
get the nexus power supplies & fans
from endpcnoise...they are dead quiet
for the hdd's get seagate baracudda's..again dead quiet
you will wind up with a very powerfull system that
will also be quiet & not break the bank
Originally posted by Fran441
Ok, another question.
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
Just trying to figure out all of my options.
I won't comment on either as I don't remember enough on either to give a good analysis, but I will point you over to Anandtech's CPU section, where you should have plenty of Articles and benchmarks to feed off of.
http://anandtech.com/cpu/index.html
Specifically, the Athlon 3000+ Article will help you with the second question, the Athlon 64: Judgement Day Article will help you with the first question.
What I built: AMD XP 2500, Albatron mobo, 80 GB Western Digital hard drive, 512 MB RAM (definitely should pick up another half gig), LiteOn combo drive, FireWire, Radeon 9200 SE with DVI. Total cost was around $670.
To tell you the truth, a comparable Dell was around the same price after rebate, with a free second optical drive thrown in, and a better warranty. For some reason, however, I just can't bring myself to buy a Dell, plus I enjoy putting my own PCs together anyway.
Take an Athlon XP, throw some more cache, some more registers, SSE 2, an integrated memory controller, 64-bitness and some more Quantispeed units.
or something.
Originally posted by Fran441
Ok, another question.
What's the difference between an Athlon 64 and Athlon XP beyond the fact that the 64 is 64 bit? Is the performance that much different? Also, how does an Athlon 64 stack up against a 3 GHz+ P4?
Just trying to figure out all of my options.
Basically what Eugene said above. The Athlon 64 is faster than the XP, uses a different socket, and is the successor to the XP line.
Currently there are two types of 64 bit Athlons and they use different sockets. The Athlon 64 FX 51 Is a slightly modified Opteron, and uses socket-940. The Athlon 64 3400+ uses a Socket-754
The Athlon 64 FX 51 is only slightly faster than the Athlon 64 3400+ and costs nearly twice as much, so I would go for the 64 3400+.
The Athlon 64 3400+ is faster than P4 3.2GHz and the P4EE 3.2GHz at just about everything except media encoding (so is the The Athlon 64 3200+ for that matter).
The Athlon 64 3000+ compares well to the P4 3GHz (and even the P4 3.2GHz on some games).
Thanks for all of the help. It certainly has been a good learning experience so far.
Asus + AMD + Via =
Screed ...and the only reason that I will build another PC is for Half-Life 2
I'm not really sure which mother board is best for the Athlon 64, I've heard some nice things about the ASUS K8V Deluxe and the Abit KV8-MAX3, but I haven't really looked over all the options.
Originally posted by Res
Currently there are two types of 64 bit Athlons and they use different sockets. The Athlon 64 FX 51 Is a slightly modified Opteron, and uses socket-940. The Athlon 64 3400+ uses a Socket-754
Very soon to be Socket 939 too. It looks like Socket 754 is going to be the Socket 423 of the AMD64 world. As Fran441 grows even more confused...
Originally posted by Eugene
Very soon to be Socket 939 too. It looks like Socket 754 is going to be the Socket 423 of the AMD64 world. As Fran441 grows even more confused...
LOL - that's why I didn't mention the socket 939, it is still few months away and I thought it was confusing enough already. But your right, I expect that by next year the 754 is going to be phazed out.
- Antec cases = good. I'd go with Antec Sonata for quietness. I'd also choose a Seagate hard disk for the same reason, and make sure the processor fan is a low-speed one. Antec cases give you goodies like reusable filter in air intake.
- for general development work (you didn't specify what kind of dev you do) regular Athlons or P4's are okay, you probably don't need anything priced above 100$. VC++ is not processor hungry, and your project is not likely to be gigantic in size.
- for gaming, processor matters even less, it's mostly the graphics card
- I'd look for the "second fastest" ATI graphics card, right now it's the 9600XT. If you're willing to track them down you can find slightly better deals on the older 9500/9600/9700 models. Names and numbers are deceiving, the "Pro" models tend to be a lot faster than the next generation cheaper card with bigger numbering. Tom's Hardware Guide (http://tomshardware.com) benchmarks are the way to figure out what's what in graphics
edit: almost forgot my best computer saving tip: buy an excellent display, you'll still have the display after two whole PC systems are obsolete, and by then it feels it was a bargain..
Originally posted by Gon
Wow, people are really throwing around a lot of opinions with no reasoning to back them up. Here are mine, student budget version, bit of focus on quietness.
-Snip -
- for gaming, processor matters even less, it's mostly the graphics card
-Snip -
For many games, like UT2004 and Unreal XMP, the processor power is extremely important. So is the video card. You don't want to skimp on either one.
Of course, that being said I sort of agree with you: for a budget system I recommended an Athlon XP 2600+ and a Radeon 9800Pro. If you have a bit more money to spend I'd go with a faster processor.
My gaming rig is an Athlon XP 2100+ with a Radeon 9600XT and I have to keep the games setting down to low and medium in order to have usable frame rates in XMP, and on some maps it drops down to 10fps (I really need to upgrade my system).
Originally posted by Res
For many games, like UT2004 and Unreal XMP, the processor power is extremely important. So is the video card. You don't want to skimp on either one.
Of course, that being said I sort of agree with you: for a budget system I recommended an Athlon XP 2600+ and a Radeon 9800Pro. If you have a bit more money to spend I'd go with a faster processor.
My gaming rig is an Athlon XP 2100+ with a Radeon 9600XT and I have to keep the games setting down to low and medium in order to have usable frame rates in XMP, and on some maps it drops down to 10fps (I really need to upgrade my system).
Wow.. the requirements have really gone up.
Thanks for pointing this out. I would've thought your gaming rig specs were enough for anything that's out now.
Is the bottleneck the processor, the graphics card or both? What resolutions are you using?
Originally posted by Gon
Wow.. the requirements have really gone up.
Thanks for pointing this out. I would've thought your gaming rig specs were enough for anything that's out now.
Is the bottleneck the processor, the graphics card or both? What resolutions are you using?
My rig runs some games, like warcraft III, just fine. It is only the new games, like unreal XMP that are too much for it. The only people I know who can play XMP at decent frame rates with all the eye-candy on are the ones with top of the line processors and video cards.
My usual resolution is 1024x768, but I dropped it down to 800x600 for UT2k4. Unfortunately the bottle neck for my rig is both the processor and video card. Hopefully I'll be able to upgrade the processor in a week or two and see how how much it helps. I'll have to wait a few more months for a new video card.
My rig runs some games, like warcraft III, just fine.
Warcraft III runs fine on my PC, and I have a PCI Radeon. It seems to have low system spec demands.
Get a good power-supply. Weak power supplies will crap-out if you throw a bunch of HDD's in there, with hotter graphics, CPU, and PCI cards.