problem is, sure it will be wonderful to get it fixed, but there's of course no guarantee that people will install the update, so now we're going to have to figure out some method to compensate for both for a while. meanwhile, absolutely NO ONE worth their xhtml 1.0/css 1 salt would argue that safari 1.0 or 1.1 were doing everything right with css (though they were better than a lot of crap out there), yet anyone who hasn't upgraded from panther (which is still a lot) still have those versions. hell, even during the safari beta days, i got lots of nasty emails saying my layout was going kablooie, to which i replied "call me when it's not BETA. in the meantime, send your comments to apple, not me, jackass." (okay, maybe i left the jackass part off, but i thought it)
of course, those are the least of my problems, with internet explorer 5 for mac and windows still in heavy circulation (due to a lot of people still using even older versions of mac os and windows). groan...
personally, if i were writing a virus, screw all this DoS attacks and leaving security holes open. do the world a favor, and erase every installation of internet explorer for windows and replace it with a compliant, alternative browser. the internet will suddenly enter a golden age.
yes, it is when you're a designer, and find out that css margins are held or broken or confused between releases 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 (that's one particular headache i'm dealing with now with 1.2). and the "all these updates" was more in reference not just to safari, but also to the mozillas, firefoxes, internet explorers et al.
What are you talking about? The Internet Explorer engine hasn't been updated since November 2001; that's hardly regularly. Gecko gets updated literally every day, but hardly ever does that involve changes that break existing sites. It's also really new to me that WebCore's changes had so many regressions...
What are you talking about? The Internet Explorer engine hasn't been updated since November 2001; that's hardly regularly. Gecko gets updated literally every day, but hardly ever does that involve changes that break existing sites. It's also really new to me that WebCore's changes had so many regressions...
jesus h. tap-dancing christ. do you not read ALL of the comments? and i wasn't just talking about internet explorer for mac! get your head out of the "well, i just use a mac, so that's all that really matters or exists" realm.
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job.
jesus h. tap-dancing christ. do you not read ALL of the comments? and i wasn't just talking about internet explorer for mac! get your head out of the "well, i just use a mac, so that's all that really matters or exists" realm.
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job.
I was talking about Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows, released November 2001 and never updated (besides security fixes) in its engine since.
I mainly use non-Macintosh computers, thank you very much name-calling.
I was talking about Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows, released November 2001 and never updated (besides security fixes) in its engine since.
I mainly use non-Macintosh computers, thank you very much name-calling.
i never called YOU a name, though i thought of one that RYHMES with your name. want to continue this "discussion"? talk to me in the private message area.
p.s. yeah, that service pack released in september 2002 didn't have anything other than security fixes, did it? well, that and full DOM support. (in case you couldn't tell, i was BEING SARCASTIC).
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job. [/B]
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I'm an amateur web designer. I maintain a site for a small non-profit that I helped start, so I don't even have a lot to deal with, but the browser incompatibilities drive me nuts. I got all excited when I started learning about CSS. "Yay! No more having to worry about designing for 3,000 different browser variations," I thought. So much for that idea. I, of course, am still learning, and some of my coding is probably a bit ugly (I really don't know), but Safari deals nicely with it, so I'm not complaining. IE on the other hand. Yuck. IE Mac butchers my layout, and IE Windows gets the layout right, but makes it nearly unusable (and since we don't have a huge readership at the moment, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it).
Actually, I think it is time for a new Safari 1.5 or 2.0 pretty soon.
* VisiTab option: OmniWeb 5 copy
* Session Saving: Partial OmniWeb 5 copy (no multiple workspaces functionality like OmniWeb 5 allows)
* Site Preferences: Duh, copy OmniWeb 5 again
* Flexible search: I'm Feeling Lucky, Site Search, Lycos, etc.
* User Agent control: Put the main option, IE 6, in the main menus. Explain its use in the Help.
* Flexible Color control: Allow you to specify link colors, text colors and background colors.
* Better History: Searchable History, and more intuitive History access. Edit: removed another complaint, the link was there.
* Bookmark Importing: Take it out of the Debug menu and put it in the main menu.
* Ad blocking: Implement a more stable PithHemlet, built-in.
* Full-screen: You know what I mean.
* AppleScript Improvements: Support getting tab info and controlling tabs via AppleScript, for one thing. Add script menus and such, preferably.
Edit: More stuff
* Real customizable toolbars: Use the OS X system. You'd have to get rid of the dynamically draggable search field, but oh well. Instead, Mac OS X could offer two or three preset search field sizes.
* Address bar underneath main bar option: You know what I mean.
* More flexible Bookmarks: Make an option so you can display all your bookmarks in the bookmarks menu.
* Stop/Reload separated option: Allow you to choose via the standard toolbar-customization interface, stop/reload combined or two separate buttons (or just one button, or no buttons at all, or all three.)
These features would really make Safari compare to "power" browsers like OmniWeb and Firefox.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I'm an amateur web designer. I maintain a site for a small non-profit that I helped start, so I don't even have a lot to deal with, but the browser incompatibilities drive me nuts. I got all excited when I started learning about CSS. "Yay! No more having to worry about designing for 3,000 different browser variations," I thought. So much for that idea. I, of course, am still learning, and some of my coding is probably a bit ugly (I really don't know), but Safari deals nicely with it, so I'm not complaining. IE on the other hand. Yuck. IE Mac butchers my layout, and IE Windows gets the layout right, but makes it nearly unusable (and since we don't have a huge readership at the moment, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it).
How 'bout we just firebomb redmond?
yeah, there are days when i think my css styles are as long as my old html, but at least one sheet can be cached for an entire site, and there's a LOT of shorthand you can use to eek out speed. my best advice: first, buy jeffrey zeldman's book "designing with web standards." not only is it well-written, but it'll comfort you at 3 a.m. when you can't figure out why you're learning all this stuff in the first place.
then, read eric meyer's book "eric meyer on css" i wouldn't buy it though. it's expensive for a recipe book. just grab a cup of coffee at a bookstore and take notes a plenty.
third, go to alistapart.com and all its related sites constantly. then finally start reverse-engineering the csszengarden designs.
by the end, you will no longer be just a young padawan.
Comments
Originally posted by Chucker
rok, could you be more specific with the issues you're having with Safari's engine?
i can do more than that: here's the one fo the css guru's and his discussion with hyatt himself over the issue.
Safari 1.2 Bug -- soon to be fixed
problem is, sure it will be wonderful to get it fixed, but there's of course no guarantee that people will install the update, so now we're going to have to figure out some method to compensate for both for a while. meanwhile, absolutely NO ONE worth their xhtml 1.0/css 1 salt would argue that safari 1.0 or 1.1 were doing everything right with css (though they were better than a lot of crap out there), yet anyone who hasn't upgraded from panther (which is still a lot) still have those versions. hell, even during the safari beta days, i got lots of nasty emails saying my layout was going kablooie, to which i replied "call me when it's not BETA. in the meantime, send your comments to apple, not me, jackass." (okay, maybe i left the jackass part off, but i thought it)
of course, those are the least of my problems, with internet explorer 5 for mac and windows still in heavy circulation (due to a lot of people still using even older versions of mac os and windows). groan...
personally, if i were writing a virus, screw all this DoS attacks and leaving security holes open. do the world a favor, and erase every installation of internet explorer for windows and replace it with a compliant, alternative browser. the internet will suddenly enter a golden age.
Originally posted by rok
yes, it is when you're a designer, and find out that css margins are held or broken or confused between releases 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 (that's one particular headache i'm dealing with now with 1.2). and the "all these updates" was more in reference not just to safari, but also to the mozillas, firefoxes, internet explorers et al.
What are you talking about? The Internet Explorer engine hasn't been updated since November 2001; that's hardly regularly. Gecko gets updated literally every day, but hardly ever does that involve changes that break existing sites. It's also really new to me that WebCore's changes had so many regressions...
Originally posted by Chucker
What are you talking about? The Internet Explorer engine hasn't been updated since November 2001; that's hardly regularly. Gecko gets updated literally every day, but hardly ever does that involve changes that break existing sites. It's also really new to me that WebCore's changes had so many regressions...
jesus h. tap-dancing christ. do you not read ALL of the comments? and i wasn't just talking about internet explorer for mac! get your head out of the "well, i just use a mac, so that's all that really matters or exists" realm.
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job.
Originally posted by rok
jesus h. tap-dancing christ. do you not read ALL of the comments? and i wasn't just talking about internet explorer for mac! get your head out of the "well, i just use a mac, so that's all that really matters or exists" realm.
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job.
I was talking about Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows, released November 2001 and never updated (besides security fixes) in its engine since.
I mainly use non-Macintosh computers, thank you very much name-calling.
Originally posted by Chucker
I was talking about Internet Explorer 6.0 for Windows, released November 2001 and never updated (besides security fixes) in its engine since.
I mainly use non-Macintosh computers, thank you very much name-calling.
i never called YOU a name, though i thought of one that RYHMES with your name. want to continue this "discussion"? talk to me in the private message area.
p.s. yeah, that service pack released in september 2002 didn't have anything other than security fixes, did it? well, that and full DOM support. (in case you couldn't tell, i was BEING SARCASTIC).
Originally posted by rok
you see, that's what web designers are supposed to do. design for EVERYTHING. edit: and it's a freakin' thankless job. [/B]
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I'm an amateur web designer. I maintain a site for a small non-profit that I helped start, so I don't even have a lot to deal with, but the browser incompatibilities drive me nuts. I got all excited when I started learning about CSS. "Yay! No more having to worry about designing for 3,000 different browser variations," I thought. So much for that idea. I, of course, am still learning, and some of my coding is probably a bit ugly (I really don't know), but Safari deals nicely with it, so I'm not complaining. IE on the other hand. Yuck. IE Mac butchers my layout, and IE Windows gets the layout right, but makes it nearly unusable (and since we don't have a huge readership at the moment, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it).
How 'bout we just firebomb redmond?
Originally posted by ryaxnb
Actually, I think it is time for a new Safari 1.5 or 2.0 pretty soon.
* VisiTab option: OmniWeb 5 copy
* Session Saving: Partial OmniWeb 5 copy (no multiple workspaces functionality like OmniWeb 5 allows)
* Site Preferences: Duh, copy OmniWeb 5 again
* Flexible search: I'm Feeling Lucky, Site Search, Lycos, etc.
* User Agent control: Put the main option, IE 6, in the main menus. Explain its use in the Help.
* Flexible Color control: Allow you to specify link colors, text colors and background colors.
* Better History: Searchable History, and more intuitive History access. Edit: removed another complaint, the link was there.
* Bookmark Importing: Take it out of the Debug menu and put it in the main menu.
* Ad blocking: Implement a more stable PithHemlet, built-in.
* Full-screen: You know what I mean.
* AppleScript Improvements: Support getting tab info and controlling tabs via AppleScript, for one thing. Add script menus and such, preferably.
Edit: More stuff
* Real customizable toolbars: Use the OS X system. You'd have to get rid of the dynamically draggable search field, but oh well. Instead, Mac OS X could offer two or three preset search field sizes.
* Address bar underneath main bar option: You know what I mean.
* More flexible Bookmarks: Make an option so you can display all your bookmarks in the bookmarks menu.
* Stop/Reload separated option: Allow you to choose via the standard toolbar-customization interface, stop/reload combined or two separate buttons (or just one button, or no buttons at all, or all three.)
These features would really make Safari compare to "power" browsers like OmniWeb and Firefox.
Why don't you just use Omniweb?
Originally posted by SledgeHammer
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I'm an amateur web designer. I maintain a site for a small non-profit that I helped start, so I don't even have a lot to deal with, but the browser incompatibilities drive me nuts. I got all excited when I started learning about CSS. "Yay! No more having to worry about designing for 3,000 different browser variations," I thought. So much for that idea. I, of course, am still learning, and some of my coding is probably a bit ugly (I really don't know), but Safari deals nicely with it, so I'm not complaining. IE on the other hand. Yuck. IE Mac butchers my layout, and IE Windows gets the layout right, but makes it nearly unusable (and since we don't have a huge readership at the moment, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it).
How 'bout we just firebomb redmond?
yeah, there are days when i think my css styles are as long as my old html, but at least one sheet can be cached for an entire site, and there's a LOT of shorthand you can use to eek out speed. my best advice: first, buy jeffrey zeldman's book "designing with web standards." not only is it well-written, but it'll comfort you at 3 a.m. when you can't figure out why you're learning all this stuff in the first place.
then, read eric meyer's book "eric meyer on css" i wouldn't buy it though. it's expensive for a recipe book. just grab a cup of coffee at a bookstore and take notes a plenty.
third, go to alistapart.com and all its related sites constantly. then finally start reverse-engineering the csszengarden designs.
by the end, you will no longer be just a young padawan.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Because he's cheap.
Well.. Thats the problem.. Everybody wants everything for free now-a-days....