[B]For the record: I lived in Salt Lake City for 18 months, and it was sheer hell as a non-Mormon. You are distinctly and definitely a second class citizen. They make the Quebecois look sane by comparison.
Two anecdotes:
Two blocks away from my house was the first drive-in espresso stand in all of Utah. I got to know the owner pretty well, it opened the same month I moved there. Mormons aren't supposed to drink coffee, so a SLC police car was parked across the street for the first six weeks of them being open, writing down license plate numbers. Those license plates were run through the DMV to get names and addresses, and those were then compared against the LDS church rolls to see if any members had strayed, so that they could be talked to by church elders.
Think about that for a minute.
A city resource (a police office and squad car) was being used to gather information on public citizens, which was then run through state resources (DMV records) to extract individual information *on the behalf of the church* so that *they* could enforce religious beliefs for their members.
The espresso stand owner called the police department, and was blocked at every turn. "None of your concern." "If you weren't running that place, it wouldn't be happening, it's your fault." etc, etc.
Sorry, i have to call BS on this without some sort of link.
Coffee drinking is so far down the list of "mormon sins" that most leadership wouldn't even care to know. Likely the officer was doing something else, but when approached by the establishment owner decided to have some fun.
Besides if this is true, i am sure there are a great many organizations in SLC that would love to know about it.
It is, as far as I was able to tell, [1]a garment to ward off evil spirits. [2]It is intended to never be taken off, and the [3]hardcore fundamentalist Mormons bathe one side of their body at a time, with the garmie on the other side.
It is a [4]simple cotton garment with [5]mystic runes embroidered on the edges. [6]It is intended to be worn until it essentially scrap, at which point [7]it cannot be simply thrown away. [8]It must be turned over to the church elders who ritualistically trim the symbols off the remainder of the garment, when only then loses it's religious significance, and can be tossed. [9]The trimmed symbols are then again ritualistically burned in the temple.
[10]But Wiccans are bad, m'kay?
Brief summary for those who may be confused:
1-nope
2-nope
3- sounds like a joke to me, but not as funny as the one about having to have sex through a hole in the sheet
4- sometimes
5- nope
6- Worn to about the same extent as any other piece of clothing
7- nope
8- nope (p.s. most adult male members of the church are considered "elders")
9- nope
10- most wiccans i have met are pretty good people
You ever go to Bad-Ass Coffee in SLC? It is downtown, 34th street IIRC.
That coffee story is fairly astounding and difficult to believe, I cannot believe that going on in SLC-proper.
The 911 call sounds overdramatized and it also seems like a misuse of the 911 system on your part. Walking around the house to get someone's attention is entirely different than "peeping". If they were actually peeping that is understandable, but calling 911 because they are irritating is irresponsible use of a public emergency resource.
SLC is definitely a weird place, even for non-Utah Mormons. Utah Mormons are sheltered and insular, definitely the result of too much state/religion mixing.
Sorry, i have to call BS on this without some sort of link.
Link to *WHAT*, my brain?
I *SAW* the cop car there every day.
Quote:
Coffee drinking is so far down the list of "mormon sins" that most leadership wouldn't even care to know. Likely the officer was doing something else, but when approached by the establishment owner decided to have some fun.
Every day? For weeks? It was a residential area, and there's a cop car sitting there with an officer in it directly across from a highly publicized espresso stand, for several weeks, watching it, and that's not a bit *odd*?
The guy also had his stand vandalized three times in the first six months it was open ("ITS A SIN" spraypainted across the booth was his favorite), had the city health inspector drop by a couple times a week in the first three months... it was insane. Classic harrassment techniques.
And yes, it is low down on the list of spiritual concerns, but this was a highly visible and rather publicized event. An espresso drive-through in the Zion of Mormonism? It'd be like a strip club opening in Mecca. This wasn't about spiritual cleanliness, it was about driving the guy out of business if at all possible.
Quote:
Besides if this is true, i am sure there are a great many organizations in SLC that would love to know about it.
Like who? Major newspapers? LDS owned. Government oversight offices? LDS run. SLC is a prime example of 'tyranny of the majority', a valid concern in any democracy.
When it became obvious that his business was a booming success with or without church members, they backed off.
But the fact remains that they used government resources for church enforcement.
Call BS on it if you want, but I appreciate being called a liar directly.
Honestly didn't mean to derail this topic, so get back to discussing whether religious diversity is a necessary component for university hiring quotas.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
[B]For the record: I lived in Salt Lake City for 18 months, and it was sheer hell as a non-Mormon. You are distinctly and definitely a second class citizen. They make the Quebecois look sane by comparison.
Two anecdotes:
Two blocks away from my house was the first drive-in espresso stand in all of Utah. I got to know the owner pretty well, it opened the same month I moved there. Mormons aren't supposed to drink coffee, so a SLC police car was parked across the street for the first six weeks of them being open, writing down license plate numbers. Those license plates were run through the DMV to get names and addresses, and those were then compared against the LDS church rolls to see if any members had strayed, so that they could be talked to by church elders.
Think about that for a minute.
A city resource (a police office and squad car) was being used to gather information on public citizens, which was then run through state resources (DMV records) to extract individual information *on the behalf of the church* so that *they* could enforce religious beliefs for their members.
The espresso stand owner called the police department, and was blocked at every turn. "None of your concern." "If you weren't running that place, it wouldn't be happening, it's your fault." etc, etc.
Sorry, i have to call BS on this without some sort of link.
Coffee drinking is so far down the list of "mormon sins" that most leadership wouldn't even care to know. Likely the officer was doing something else, but when approached by the establishment owner decided to have some fun.
Besides if this is true, i am sure there are a great many organizations in SLC that would love to know about it.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Yes, the 'Mormon smile' or 'garmies'.
It is, as far as I was able to tell, [1]a garment to ward off evil spirits. [2]It is intended to never be taken off, and the [3]hardcore fundamentalist Mormons bathe one side of their body at a time, with the garmie on the other side.
It is a [4]simple cotton garment with [5]mystic runes embroidered on the edges. [6]It is intended to be worn until it essentially scrap, at which point [7]it cannot be simply thrown away. [8]It must be turned over to the church elders who ritualistically trim the symbols off the remainder of the garment, when only then loses it's religious significance, and can be tossed. [9]The trimmed symbols are then again ritualistically burned in the temple.
[10]But Wiccans are bad, m'kay?
Brief summary for those who may be confused:
1-nope
2-nope
3- sounds like a joke to me, but not as funny as the one about having to have sex through a hole in the sheet
4- sometimes
5- nope
6- Worn to about the same extent as any other piece of clothing
7- nope
8- nope (p.s. most adult male members of the church are considered "elders")
9- nope
10- most wiccans i have met are pretty good people
You ever go to Bad-Ass Coffee in SLC? It is downtown, 34th street IIRC.
That coffee story is fairly astounding and difficult to believe, I cannot believe that going on in SLC-proper.
The 911 call sounds overdramatized and it also seems like a misuse of the 911 system on your part. Walking around the house to get someone's attention is entirely different than "peeping". If they were actually peeping that is understandable, but calling 911 because they are irritating is irresponsible use of a public emergency resource.
SLC is definitely a weird place, even for non-Utah Mormons. Utah Mormons are sheltered and insular, definitely the result of too much state/religion mixing.
Originally posted by gorebug
Sorry, i have to call BS on this without some sort of link.
Link to *WHAT*, my brain?
I *SAW* the cop car there every day.
Coffee drinking is so far down the list of "mormon sins" that most leadership wouldn't even care to know. Likely the officer was doing something else, but when approached by the establishment owner decided to have some fun.
Every day? For weeks? It was a residential area, and there's a cop car sitting there with an officer in it directly across from a highly publicized espresso stand, for several weeks, watching it, and that's not a bit *odd*?
The guy also had his stand vandalized three times in the first six months it was open ("ITS A SIN" spraypainted across the booth was his favorite), had the city health inspector drop by a couple times a week in the first three months... it was insane. Classic harrassment techniques.
And yes, it is low down on the list of spiritual concerns, but this was a highly visible and rather publicized event. An espresso drive-through in the Zion of Mormonism? It'd be like a strip club opening in Mecca. This wasn't about spiritual cleanliness, it was about driving the guy out of business if at all possible.
Besides if this is true, i am sure there are a great many organizations in SLC that would love to know about it.
Like who? Major newspapers? LDS owned. Government oversight offices? LDS run. SLC is a prime example of 'tyranny of the majority', a valid concern in any democracy.
When it became obvious that his business was a booming success with or without church members, they backed off.
But the fact remains that they used government resources for church enforcement.
Call BS on it if you want, but I appreciate being called a liar directly.
Honestly didn't mean to derail this topic, so get back to discussing whether religious diversity is a necessary component for university hiring quotas.