Either will be good for what you want to do. If you decide to go with the iBook, I suggest you spend a little more money and buy the 600Mhz G3 w/ a 100Mhz bus. You also won't have to buy Office right away because Appleworks along with iMovie, iTunes, and iPhoto are all pre-installed.
One last thing is if you do buy the iBook, go through the Apple Store online and you can get a student discount.
<strong> (snip)... Also, what is the best alternative to Office on mac? Thanks so much!</strong><hr></blockquote>
matt,
Appleworks. Comes with and opens MS Word and Excel files no problem. I haven't tried opening PowerPoint It displays Excel files of more than one worksheet on a single worksheet (it doesn't have multiple worksheets). I'm thinking it doesn't do PowerPoint though.
Office X is usually around $200 for students. That ain't half bad and it's what I've got. My iBook 600 combo 12.1" is by far the best computer I've owned.
Matt, I'm confused. Are you choosing between an iBook and a PC desktop OR between an iBook and a PC laptop. I'm assuming you mean a PC laptop, in which case realize that the iBook is one of the most fully featured portables on the market. It has built in 56K modem, built-in Ethernet networking, FireWire (for external hard drives and digitial video camcorders), USB (for mice, keyboards, external disk drives and digitial still cameras), a VGA out port and a headphone jack that doubles as an A/V out port (on the DVD models) that let you conect the iBook to your TV to watch movies.
On top of that you get OS x and all of the "iApps" (iTunes for music/MP3s, iMovie, iPhoto).
Hi, well ... I have to ask because I'm trying to figure whether or not to wait and see if a new Powerbook is coming out soon or grab one now. It would be my first as I do all my work on the Linux/x86/alpha side. And after reading that last post, I don't understand where you're coming from. I'm looking at powerbook in hopes of at least staying close w/ what's on the market. x86 chips are running circles around the g4 667's and I'm still seeing new G3's in iBooks (1996 tech).
And you're saying their "the most fully featured portables on the market". All the other laptops have 56k modems, built-in or plug-in (has other advantages) nics, firewire, usb (same fits for all reasons you mentioned), vga etc... And all the same type software you mentioned is freely available. Oh, and for only 2/3rd's the price or less.
Heh, so I'm hoping I can really be sold on one because I think I'm buying more for the OS itself rather than the hardware which fits my line of work more.
[quote]after reading that last post, I don't understand where you're coming from.<hr></blockquote>
Might help if you say what you mean in your initial post. You start with the iBook and a PC, now you're talking about a PowerBook. Get it straight yourself before you start asking for help.
[quote]And all the same type software you mentioned is freely available.<hr></blockquote>
Any free software you get for the PC will not even compare to the quality and ease of use of the iApps...
Now come on, don't get bent out of shape. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings w/ a reply to your comment so I'll try to keep this in perspective.
[quote]Might help if you say what you mean in your initial post. You start with the iBook and a PC, now you're talking about a PowerBook. Get it straight yourself before you start asking for help.<hr></blockquote>
Heh, what post are you referring to. Where did I start w/ the iBook. I think you're confusing someone else's initial post w/ my only post. I just asked for clarification on your reason for saying "iBook is one of the most fully featured portables on the market".
As to the software, I admit I've not used it as an owner but while test driving at the store, I didn't see much in functionality that say ... Real One doesn't offer offer. I'm assuming it's a bit better in quality, but for price tag, why not just pay for a full license from a 3rd party offering who specializes in it. I'd still be under the total price w/ a full x86 solution that what apple is offering.
So what I'm say is ... I guess I have yet to see the benefits and an hoping to find some. Keep in mind on your next reply, I'm researching for answers as a first time apple owner, and not meaning to so easily get you all bent out of shape.
<strong>Office X is usually around $200 for students. That ain't half bad and it's what I've got. My iBook 600 combo 12.1" is by far the best computer I've owned.</strong><hr></blockquote>
about 1/2 price, whoa... could you be like a student of human nature, or would you need a actual student body card...and i second scooterboy's opinion o the iBook
<strong>Office X is usually around $200 for students. That ain't half bad and it's what I've got. My iBook 600 combo 12.1" is by far the best computer I've owned.</strong><hr></blockquote>
about 1/2 price, whoa... could you be like a student of human nature, or would you need a actual student body card...and i second scooterboy's opinion o the iBook
I'm admittedly a little biased (but not much), but the iBook beats any pc laptop hands down. Just look at dell's latest sub-1000 offering. It's crap. As a student, you could get the entry level iBook for a couple hundred more. Sure percentage wise it may be 20% more, but when you look at the raw numbers it's not that much. The ibook is the best laptop available for the money. The iApps may seem superfluous until you use them. There really is no comparison. Just iTunes is worth it. It's nearly perfect and it's only had one major revision. A couple more tweaks and it will be the best available.
But, I digress. You have to not only look at what you get with the computer, but what you can actually do with it. A portable is supposed to be portable. Battery life is underestimated in that respect. As is airport. Plus the ultra-portability of the ibook is amazing. It's really tiny but you get the same screen real-estate as most 14.1" screens. You can slip it into a small northface sleeve and then into a backpack. It's durable. And it runs OS X like a champ. Plus, you get firewire, so cd burning couldn't be easier. Buy an external firewire burner and you're all set. Out of the box, it works. The iPod. You may not want one now, but you will .
What I meant to say in my previous post is that FOR THE PRICE, the iBook is one of the most fully featured laptops out there.
gary... you say that there are faster notebooks out there with all of the same features as the iBook (hardware AND software ["freely available"]) at 2/3 the price. My question to you is WHERE? By WHAT company? Educate me, because I just don't see anything close to the iBook's features for under $2000.
hi... matt, i've been where you are now--deciding on whether to get an ibook or a pc. for me, i chose the ibook because of 2 reasons: i owned an imac thus i have all the programs i need like office; and i owned a powerbook before my ibook. and when it broke down, i was too settled with a mac portable to switch to a pc.
if you like your pc software a lot and do not want to get a lot of new software for the mac, then you might be happy with a pc portable. but you said that you want a change. and a mac would be a good change. you will need software, yes, but not urgently. the built in apps that come with the ibook should be sufficient for you until you get more software. the iApps are practically sufficient for your early college life. (it was for me... it took me a couple of months in university before i finally decided to move on to office. but i still use appleworks a lot.)
and although my ibook doesn't boast the same mhz as some of the pc portables, it's adequate for my appleworkin', photoshoppin', soundjamin' (yes..i don't use itunes yet) needs. just make sure you get at least 256 megs of ram, and consider a hard drive no less than 20 gigs. (but dvd isn't really a necessity although i got it oo)
hope this opinion from a fellow ibook owner helps you.
- USB (for all that you said AND has 4 ports as opposed to 1 on the iBook)
- VGA (for all that you said AND a 15" screen
- DVD/CD-ROM combo) iBook, nope!
- ATI Radeon w/ 64Mb's DDR (iBook, what, 16Mb?)
- 20Gb as opposed to 15 on iBook.
- 400MHz bus as opposed to 66MHz.
And of course its available with much faster P4's (like up to 2.2GHz on their site) which the powerbook can't even match yet).
So what I'm saying is, I couldn't even get all of this in a powerbook that runs for 3K (so sorry, I mean't less than 2/3rds).
And I don't believe you need any educating on the software. OS's are free that match it, as well as audio and video players.
But seeing as you meant to say "FOR THE PRICE" of an iBook ... I just picked up a UK mag, some sort of buyers guide for laptops that were all available for under $1000, and they were impressive if you wanted to just match the iBook. Pick one up at most any news stand, you should find it this month.
first of all provide a link and get your facts straight.... the iBook has a combo drive, vga (mirroring) out, 2 usb ports (not 1), and a 56K modem--all built in ALONG WITH AN AIRPORT SLOT WITH BUILT-IN ANTENNA...which you dont even mention.... nor do you mention the size and weight of the notebook ALONG WITH BATTERYLIFE INFO... sure put a northwood p4 2.2 gig in there and see how long it lasts? 30 min? your 400MHz buss isnt exactly a good thing on notebooks, how much does extra ram cost? LOADS of $
plus you are spending $1800, the iBook gos for $1200 (cheaper for older models) with 90% of these features... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Nice try, Gary. but your facts, and thus your assumtion, are flawed.
let us see
2/3 of the price you said. now let's give this another go.
i just went to apple's website now and configured an ibook to match your configuration:
let me copy paste.... *chunk*
Summary
? iBook 600MHz
? 256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 20GB Ultra ATA drive
? DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
? AirPort Card
? Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
? Rage 128 Mobility w/ 8MB memory
? Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
? 12.1-inch TFT XGA display
bam... there it is--all for the price of 1673 bucks--undercutting your configuration by 125 bucks. and read it--you see it has the features which you said are not available on the ibook--the 56k (although who uses that anymore), the 20 gig drive and the dvd/cd-r combo, and vga external video mirroring. and it has some that you didn't mention--you know..important stuff for a portable like wireless networking and long battery life? (i get four hours from my ibook on normal usage--meaning maxxed screen brightness and all.)
but i digress, you said your system had a 15" screen. hard to beat that, but if you're willing to forego .9", you can have a 14.1" ibook for 1799 with the same features--minus the airport card. but then again, i'm not a fan of such a large laptop--i like the ibook because it's small--barely larger 8.5"x11" piece of paper. how big is your portable? very few pc portables give you that much features for that size and that price.
next time, do your research a bit and don't get people riled up for nothing.
To the 2 people that are considering getting a mac....
I am a PC convert . I got my iBook 500 DVD the week after they introduced it last May.
All I can say is am I ever glad that I switched. Owning a mac is so much different than a PC. I run OS X full time and its great! I wouldn't give up my iBook for the world- well- maybe I'd trade for a 600 combo version, but hey- its all the same just faster- a lot faster from what I understand.
I didn't have all the mac programs that I had burned from all my PC friends when I was using winblows. But I now have Office v.X and I love it- I'm waiting for my copy of Photoshop 7 to get here and as soon a Macromedia announces Dreamweaver for OS X I'll get that too.
Now on to the iApps- iTunes is simply the best- I use it everyday. When I got my iBook I got a free Rio 600. All I have to do is plug in the Rio open iTunes and drag the files that I want to listen to over to the Rio icon. NO DRIVER INSTALLS NOTHING! If I want to burn a CD- all I do is make a playlist plug in my USB CD Burner and click burn- no drivers to install again! If I had a digital camera just plug in the USB camera and iPhoto downloads the pics from the camera- easy- NO DRIVERS! I have a DV camera and I use iMovie a lot to make short films of all the adventures I go on- autoshows (Detroit), MacWorld NY 2001, etc. Its great- again no drivers!
Basically the iBook has been a god send to me! I love it so much. It my sound like I'm some kind of average user, but I feel that I was an advanced PC user until I switched to Mac and now I a happy advanced OS X usin' machine.
Also my old PC laptop cost $2000- my iBook was $1599 and it was a much better value. You can see all the numbers of PC- their GHz processors and super low prices- but you get what you pay for- crap. Windoz is such a B**ch. I wouldn't even consider it anymore.
Heh, yeah, I don't mention some of the things like "built-in" antenna because most everyone does that. I assumed it would be obvious. So although I had misunderstood some of the facts on the iBook, they still come up short. I thought by saying the word "winbook" you might know the site to look at, I'll let you puzzle your way through that. So correction, you've said the iBook has 2 USB's (still 2 less) and combo and a modem and is keeping pace. Now where you come up w/ saying that the p4 2.2's only last 30 mins or a 400MHz bus isn't good just leaves me speechless. I'll remind my friends that there's should be going out any day now and that you would rather they trade down.
Basically, what this means is ... we could go all day on the details of these systems (i.e. battery, weight, things more important to others or us that others don't prioritize as we do) and if you look at the specs on other laptops, you'll find things that they carry that the iBook doesn't and a few things on the iBook that they don't (which I havn't seen any yet) and blah, blah, blah. So as I look back at my original post by not agreeing with ...
[quote]... that FOR THE PRICE, the iBook is one of the most fully featured laptops out there<hr></blockquote>
when comparing main components like processor, video, screen, etc... just the basics, then know that I'm comparing an $1800 laptop which Apple can't even make yet to G3's that are 1997 tech and you can find cheaper. And grab a buyers guide to find the lowend models that compare to the iBook. And I don't mean this as a shot that makes you guys, as Pismeov puts it, "... getting people riled up". Heh, let your conscious be your guide.
Pismeov:
[quote]i just went to apple's website now and configured an ibook to match your configuration <hr></blockquote>
Heh, yes P4 1.6 == a G3 600MHz, and Rage 128 8Mb == Radeon 64MB DDR, and 12.1 == 15 inch screen.
Never mind, not worth it.
Now I am impressed w/ tacojohn's comments. He seems to echo what the entire community says about iBooks and every new version of them ...
[quote]maybe I'd trade for a 600 combo version, but hey- its all the same just faster- <hr></blockquote>
And comments like his about the software is why I'm waiting for the next powerbook.
Bottom line: If your going to tell me that Apple hardware is the most fully featured for the price, save your breath. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Now if you say stylish and innovative on design, I'm convinced.
Comments
One last thing is if you do buy the iBook, go through the Apple Store online and you can get a student discount.
<strong> (snip)... Also, what is the best alternative to Office on mac? Thanks so much!</strong><hr></blockquote>
matt,
Appleworks. Comes with and opens MS Word and Excel files no problem. I haven't tried opening PowerPoint It displays Excel files of more than one worksheet on a single worksheet (it doesn't have multiple worksheets). I'm thinking it doesn't do PowerPoint though.
On top of that you get OS x and all of the "iApps" (iTunes for music/MP3s, iMovie, iPhoto).
The decision should be very simple for you.
And you're saying their "the most fully featured portables on the market". All the other laptops have 56k modems, built-in or plug-in (has other advantages) nics, firewire, usb (same fits for all reasons you mentioned), vga etc... And all the same type software you mentioned is freely available. Oh, and for only 2/3rd's the price or less.
Heh, so I'm hoping I can really be sold on one because I think I'm buying more for the OS itself rather than the hardware which fits my line of work more.
Might help if you say what you mean in your initial post. You start with the iBook and a PC, now you're talking about a PowerBook. Get it straight yourself before you start asking for help.
[quote]And all the same type software you mentioned is freely available.<hr></blockquote>
Any free software you get for the PC will not even compare to the quality and ease of use of the iApps...
Troll.
[quote]Might help if you say what you mean in your initial post. You start with the iBook and a PC, now you're talking about a PowerBook. Get it straight yourself before you start asking for help.<hr></blockquote>
Heh, what post are you referring to. Where did I start w/ the iBook. I think you're confusing someone else's initial post w/ my only post. I just asked for clarification on your reason for saying "iBook is one of the most fully featured portables on the market".
As to the software, I admit I've not used it as an owner but while test driving at the store, I didn't see much in functionality that say ... Real One doesn't offer offer. I'm assuming it's a bit better in quality, but for price tag, why not just pay for a full license from a 3rd party offering who specializes in it. I'd still be under the total price w/ a full x86 solution that what apple is offering.
So what I'm say is ... I guess I have yet to see the benefits and an hoping to find some. Keep in mind on your next reply, I'm researching for answers as a first time apple owner, and not meaning to so easily get you all bent out of shape.
Sorry, I did think you were the original poster... my fault.
Of course I do stand by the post, sans the troll comment.
<strong>Office X is usually around $200 for students. That ain't half bad and it's what I've got. My iBook 600 combo 12.1" is by far the best computer I've owned.</strong><hr></blockquote>
about 1/2 price, whoa... could you be like a student of human nature, or would you need a actual student body card...and i second scooterboy's opinion o the iBook
<strong>Office X is usually around $200 for students. That ain't half bad and it's what I've got. My iBook 600 combo 12.1" is by far the best computer I've owned.</strong><hr></blockquote>
about 1/2 price, whoa... could you be like a student of human nature, or would you need a actual student body card...and i second scooterboy's opinion o the iBook
But, I digress. You have to not only look at what you get with the computer, but what you can actually do with it. A portable is supposed to be portable. Battery life is underestimated in that respect. As is airport. Plus the ultra-portability of the ibook is amazing. It's really tiny but you get the same screen real-estate as most 14.1" screens. You can slip it into a small northface sleeve and then into a backpack. It's durable. And it runs OS X like a champ. Plus, you get firewire, so cd burning couldn't be easier. Buy an external firewire burner and you're all set. Out of the box, it works. The iPod. You may not want one now, but you will
I love the ibook, can you tell?
[edited for clarity]
[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
gary... you say that there are faster notebooks out there with all of the same features as the iBook (hardware AND software ["freely available"]) at 2/3 the price. My question to you is WHERE? By WHAT company? Educate me, because I just don't see anything close to the iBook's features for under $2000.
[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: clonenode ]</p>
if you like your pc software a lot and do not want to get a lot of new software for the mac, then you might be happy with a pc portable. but you said that you want a change. and a mac would be a good change. you will need software, yes, but not urgently. the built in apps that come with the ibook should be sufficient for you until you get more software. the iApps are practically sufficient for your early college life. (it was for me... it took me a couple of months in university before i finally decided to move on to office. but i still use appleworks a lot.)
and although my ibook doesn't boast the same mhz as some of the pc portables, it's adequate for my appleworkin', photoshoppin', soundjamin' (yes..i don't use itunes yet) needs. just make sure you get at least 256 megs of ram, and consider a hard drive no less than 20 gigs. (but dvd isn't really a necessity although i got it oo)
hope this opinion from a fellow ibook owner helps you.
For $1798, I get a winbook that ...
- 56k modems (ibook Nope)
- Built in networking
- Firewire (for all that you said)
- USB (for all that you said AND has 4 ports as opposed to 1 on the iBook)
- VGA (for all that you said AND a 15" screen
- DVD/CD-ROM combo) iBook, nope!
- ATI Radeon w/ 64Mb's DDR (iBook, what, 16Mb?)
- 20Gb as opposed to 15 on iBook.
- 400MHz bus as opposed to 66MHz.
And of course its available with much faster P4's (like up to 2.2GHz on their site) which the powerbook can't even match yet).
So what I'm saying is, I couldn't even get all of this in a powerbook that runs for 3K (so sorry, I mean't less than 2/3rds).
And I don't believe you need any educating on the software. OS's are free that match it, as well as audio and video players.
But seeing as you meant to say "FOR THE PRICE" of an iBook ... I just picked up a UK mag, some sort of buyers guide for laptops that were all available for under $1000, and they were impressive if you wanted to just match the iBook. Pick one up at most any news stand, you should find it this month.
plus you are spending $1800, the iBook gos for $1200 (cheaper for older models) with 90% of these features... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
let us see
2/3 of the price you said. now let's give this another go.
i just went to apple's website now and configured an ibook to match your configuration:
let me copy paste.... *chunk*
Summary
? iBook 600MHz
? 256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 20GB Ultra ATA drive
? DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
? AirPort Card
? Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
? Rage 128 Mobility w/ 8MB memory
? Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
? 12.1-inch TFT XGA display
bam... there it is--all for the price of 1673 bucks--undercutting your configuration by 125 bucks. and read it--you see it has the features which you said are not available on the ibook--the 56k (although who uses that anymore), the 20 gig drive and the dvd/cd-r combo, and vga external video mirroring. and it has some that you didn't mention--you know..important stuff for a portable like wireless networking and long battery life? (i get four hours from my ibook on normal usage--meaning maxxed screen brightness and all.)
but i digress, you said your system had a 15" screen. hard to beat that, but if you're willing to forego .9", you can have a 14.1" ibook for 1799 with the same features--minus the airport card. but then again, i'm not a fan of such a large laptop--i like the ibook because it's small--barely larger 8.5"x11" piece of paper. how big is your portable? very few pc portables give you that much features for that size and that price.
next time, do your research a bit and don't get people riled up for nothing.
I am a PC convert . I got my iBook 500 DVD the week after they introduced it last May.
All I can say is am I ever glad that I switched. Owning a mac is so much different than a PC. I run OS X full time and its great! I wouldn't give up my iBook for the world- well- maybe I'd trade for a 600 combo version, but hey- its all the same just faster- a lot faster from what I understand.
I didn't have all the mac programs that I had burned from all my PC friends when I was using winblows. But I now have Office v.X and I love it- I'm waiting for my copy of Photoshop 7 to get here and as soon a Macromedia announces Dreamweaver for OS X I'll get that too.
Now on to the iApps- iTunes is simply the best- I use it everyday. When I got my iBook I got a free Rio 600. All I have to do is plug in the Rio open iTunes and drag the files that I want to listen to over to the Rio icon. NO DRIVER INSTALLS NOTHING! If I want to burn a CD- all I do is make a playlist plug in my USB CD Burner and click burn- no drivers to install again! If I had a digital camera just plug in the USB camera and iPhoto downloads the pics from the camera- easy- NO DRIVERS! I have a DV camera and I use iMovie a lot to make short films of all the adventures I go on- autoshows (Detroit), MacWorld NY 2001, etc. Its great- again no drivers!
Basically the iBook has been a god send to me! I love it so much. It my sound like I'm some kind of average user, but I feel that I was an advanced PC user until I switched to Mac and now I a happy advanced OS X usin' machine.
Also my old PC laptop cost $2000- my iBook was $1599 and it was a much better value. You can see all the numbers of PC- their GHz processors and super low prices- but you get what you pay for- crap. Windoz is such a B**ch. I wouldn't even consider it anymore.
I LOVE MY MAC! No PC will ever come close.
bought the iBook..
love it
downloaded pirated version of Office v.X
i HATE my PC, i LOVE my iBook....
simple as that
Heh, yeah, I don't mention some of the things like "built-in" antenna because most everyone does that. I assumed it would be obvious. So although I had misunderstood some of the facts on the iBook, they still come up short. I thought by saying the word "winbook" you might know the site to look at, I'll let you puzzle your way through that. So correction, you've said the iBook has 2 USB's (still 2 less) and combo and a modem and is keeping pace. Now where you come up w/ saying that the p4 2.2's only last 30 mins or a 400MHz bus isn't good just leaves me speechless. I'll remind my friends that there's should be going out any day now and that you would rather they trade down.
Basically, what this means is ... we could go all day on the details of these systems (i.e. battery, weight, things more important to others or us that others don't prioritize as we do) and if you look at the specs on other laptops, you'll find things that they carry that the iBook doesn't and a few things on the iBook that they don't (which I havn't seen any yet) and blah, blah, blah. So as I look back at my original post by not agreeing with ...
[quote]... that FOR THE PRICE, the iBook is one of the most fully featured laptops out there<hr></blockquote>
when comparing main components like processor, video, screen, etc... just the basics, then know that I'm comparing an $1800 laptop which Apple can't even make yet to G3's that are 1997 tech and you can find cheaper. And grab a buyers guide to find the lowend models that compare to the iBook. And I don't mean this as a shot that makes you guys, as Pismeov puts it, "... getting people riled up". Heh, let your conscious be your guide.
Pismeov:
[quote]i just went to apple's website now and configured an ibook to match your configuration <hr></blockquote>
Heh, yes P4 1.6 == a G3 600MHz, and Rage 128 8Mb == Radeon 64MB DDR, and 12.1 == 15 inch screen.
Never mind, not worth it.
Now I am impressed w/ tacojohn's comments. He seems to echo what the entire community says about iBooks and every new version of them ...
[quote]maybe I'd trade for a 600 combo version, but hey- its all the same just faster- <hr></blockquote>
And comments like his about the software is why I'm waiting for the next powerbook.
Bottom line: If your going to tell me that Apple hardware is the most fully featured for the price, save your breath. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Now if you say stylish and innovative on design, I'm convinced.