I think 128 kps is perfect. at least for me. I guess I'm not a crazy perfectionist when it comes to music, as long as its nice sounding without any crackles, digity sounds is fine with me I rip cds at 128-164 kps . When you don't develop a taste in HIGH HIGH quality music, you won't notice the diff.
Well, i went and converted an AIFF to 64kbps AAC. I have a pretty sensitive ear, so I can hear where the bitrate fails to deliver... however, I'm willing to bet if you ripped a library at 64kbps, put it on someone's Dell DJ and gave them a pair of cheap, consumer headphones, the majority of those consumers aren't going to really complain. Most people don't have the sensitive ears that you people that rip at ungodly high bitrates do.
I'd be willing to bet that my predicted results would hold true even for consumers that still have both of their ears...
WMA>AAC. WMA at 64kbps is the equivalent of 96-128kbps Mp3 and marginally superior to AAC at a given bitrate. I had a hard time believing it first, but then I decided to listen to some WMA at 64kbps and I am now a believer.
Dean believer --> WMA believer. The next logical step!
Go blast your beliefs at the Hydrogen Audio guys.
---
Now seriously. You might want to hear what AAC+ sounds like at 64 kbps. AAC is more suited at ~128 kbps or higher. AAC+ is suited to <128 kbps.
You do realize that those of you complaining about Dell advertising at 64kbps aren't complaining about Apple advertising at 128kbps. Also that you guys have proclaimed proudly that you rip at incredibly high bit rates. Don't you find that odd?
Sound is all relative to the listener. Let's assume 64kbps WMA sounds close enough to 128kbps AAC (I don't know, I haven't listened to them). What's the problem? What if Dell advertised WMA at 128kbps? I don't think labeling Dell customers as deaf trailer trash is very fair, nor does it really speak positively on your character.
Religious riots incited over this crap sometimes put AO to shame. Bravo.
In any case:
I think They should discolse that:
DELL DJ is at 64kps per song
and Apple is at 128kps per song
Also even if WMA at 64kps sounds as good as AAC at 128kps who would only have WMA songs on their MP3 player..wont it also have MP3.. WAVE....
"There's no reason why we can't be at 30 percent market share, and we'd be an $80 billion company right now," said James Schneider, responding to a question at a Morgan Stanley technology conference"
Dell could be at 70% market share,... all they have to do is lie and tell them their new PC will do everything short of the laundry... If their Dell DJ can last up to 20 hours...hold twice as much music as a iPod.. then... maybe they should just advertise that a Dell CD-RW 52x is faster than a HP CD-RW at 52x or that a ... or...
This company better watch what they are doing.. in both terms of rapid-growth and how they present things (lies)
They could quicky go from the 15% ish market share (now) down to 1.5....
::edit::
They have like a 20% market share in the us during the 4th Qtr
They do disclose that the Dell DJ is at 64kbps, and the iPod is 128kbps. It's in the fine print, right where it should be, and where it has always been. Read the fine print on Apple's ads where they compare their kit to competitor's kit. This isn't anything earth shattering. This is why we should always be informed consumers and read the fine print
They do disclose that the Dell DJ is at 64kbps, and the iPod is 128kbps. It's in the fine print, right where it should be, and where it has always been. Read the fine print on Apple's ads where they compare their kit to competitor's kit. This isn't anything earth shattering. This is why we should always be informed consumers and read the fine print
?????
All it has is:
(4) Assumes audio format is 64kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 min.
Said nothing about iPod being at a higher kbps...
Also..
Im getting really nitpicky... but is the iPod not smaller than the Dell DJ... the "Comparison" showes the DJ as smaller
The use of comparable advertising has been used forever. Apple did and does it as does Dell. However, if there are egregious or misleading statements within the ad there can be action taken by Apple by filing a complaint with the FTC (Federal Traded Commission). However, I wouldn't worry about it too much as the Dell DJ has been around a long time and is not selling that well. It's usually a sign of desperation when this kind of crap goes on.
*** WHY ON EARTH DID APPLE TAKE A STEP "BACKWARDS".. ***
This is slightly offtopic, but Apple seems to have a habit of taking steps backwards. Most recently, the last generation of the G4 introduced dual optical drives. Apple was very proud of it. The successor to that Power Mac brought back a single optical drive. Oh well, I guess it wasn't that important.
I'm sure I could conjure up a few more examples if I weren't so tired
*** WHY ON EARTH DID APPLE TAKE A STEP "BACKWARDS".. ***
Prismatic and Polymer LiIon cells all are made with about the same storage density. Apple wanted to reduce the physical size, so they used less hungry electronics and reduced the battery size. They probably also improved the software/firmware.
Being a product designer myself -- I do the circuitry and the industrial/mechanical design -- I'm well aware of the difficulty involved in cramming batteries into a small implement. It can be tough, especially if you're interested in cost as well. Apple's move to better electronics is an extremely desirable solution since it keeps the cost down, reduces the size, and reduces the heat. Since Dell does no real product design, they aren't able to tweak the electronics so they just have to put in huge batteries and hope that economies of scale can allow for profits. But the DJ looks like a piece of shit, and it will be Dell's last music player.
I'm also not sure of the amount of RAM in the Dell DJ. That's one of the more appealing things in the iPod: the huge cache.
On a side note, I crammed 2650mAh of LiIon into a TV remote sized thing that reads RFID tags. With the new Broadcomm 802.11 chips, the battery life increases by a factor of 5 to 10 depending on RFID settings. So I could reduce it to 850mAh and still be great, but instead I just kept the big cells and you can use it non-stop for a week. Good components and good firmware make a huge difference.
Sorry about coming in late on this thread, but doesn't the US have laws preventing misleading advertising.
In Australia, our Trade Practices Act imposes penalties for conduct which is likely to mislead or deceive. Fine print is almost never sufficient to excuse advertising which is otherwise misleading.
Consequences for breaching this act include fines, having to publish retractions and damages to others affected.
Without knowing all the details, if what M.O.S.T says is right, Dell would not have a leg to stand on in Australia.
Sorry about coming in late on this thread, but doesn't the US have laws preventing misleading advertising.
In Australia, our Trade Practices Act imposes penalties for conduct which is likely to mislead or deceive. Fine print is almost never sufficient to excuse advertising which is otherwise misleading.
Consequences for breaching this act include fines, having to publish retractions and damages to others affected.
Without knowing all the details, if what M.O.S.T says is right, Dell would not have a leg to stand on in Australia.
one of my friends recently purchased a DJ, and i got to check it out the other day. obviously its a piece of crap compared to the ipod, but i can see where people would choose it over the ipod in terms of price. for the people that dont care about what their buying when it comes to computers, the dj is fine. i'm not saying its gonna get off the ground or anything, but it wasnt as plasticky as i expected. anyways, like i said, i'm still not a fan and wouldnt recommend it to anyone, but at least i can say that having tried one myself.
To respond to the Aussie guy, Dell does this kind of advertising all the time. The introduce a model and list the optimal specs, even though the specs are impossible to coexist in a single machine. Most notably, they put the price for the bare bones system and the specs for the high end system of the same model. Usually it results in a doubling or tripling of the listed price. All distinctions are made in the fine print.
But, again, people don't usually care about specs to a large extent. The look and feel of a consumer device really make more difference than what it can do as long as it doesn't suck. Case in point: How many iPod knock-offs have been to market in the last 2 years? Lots. How many do you see? Few. The only thing the dell DJ is going to do is let Apple make the iPod better.
(4) Assumes audio format is 64kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 min.
Did I change Dell ???
IT NOW READS...
4 Assumes audio format is 64 kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 minutes. Dell DJ 15 stores up to 3745 songs assuming audio format is 128 kbps MP3 encoding with average song length of 4 minutes. Dell DJ 20 stores up to 4962 songs assuming audio format is 128 kbps MP3 encoding with average song length of 4 minutes.
lol, I wouldn't give you too much credit M.O.S.T. but if you really wanted to check, say something like Mike Dell should be replaced as CEO. Oh wait...
Comments
I'd be willing to bet that my predicted results would hold true even for consumers that still have both of their ears...
Yes.. they did that on their TV ad as well. Who cares... let DELL do whatever they want.
I am an iPod owner.
Originally posted by Existence
WMA>AAC. WMA at 64kbps is the equivalent of 96-128kbps Mp3 and marginally superior to AAC at a given bitrate. I had a hard time believing it first, but then I decided to listen to some WMA at 64kbps and I am now a believer.
Dean believer --> WMA believer. The next logical step!
Go blast your beliefs at the Hydrogen Audio guys.
---
Now seriously. You might want to hear what AAC+ sounds like at 64 kbps. AAC is more suited at ~128 kbps or higher. AAC+ is suited to <128 kbps.
Originally posted by LoCash
You do realize that those of you complaining about Dell advertising at 64kbps aren't complaining about Apple advertising at 128kbps. Also that you guys have proclaimed proudly that you rip at incredibly high bit rates. Don't you find that odd?
Sound is all relative to the listener. Let's assume 64kbps WMA sounds close enough to 128kbps AAC (I don't know, I haven't listened to them). What's the problem? What if Dell advertised WMA at 128kbps? I don't think labeling Dell customers as deaf trailer trash is very fair, nor does it really speak positively on your character.
Religious riots incited over this crap sometimes put AO to shame. Bravo.
In any case:
I think They should discolse that:
DELL DJ is at 64kps per song
and Apple is at 128kps per song
Also even if WMA at 64kps sounds as good as AAC at 128kps
About Dell...
"There's no reason why we can't be at 30 percent market share, and we'd be an $80 billion company right now," said James Schneider, responding to a question at a Morgan Stanley technology conference"
Dell could be at 70% market share,... all they have to do is lie and tell them their new PC will do everything short of the laundry... If their Dell DJ can last up to 20 hours...hold twice as much music as a iPod.. then... maybe they should just advertise that a Dell CD-RW 52x is faster than a HP CD-RW at 52x
This company better watch what they are doing.. in both terms of rapid-growth and how they present things (lies)
They could quicky go from the 15% ish market share (now) down to 1.5....
::edit::
They have like a 20% market share in the us during the 4th Qtr
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
If I remember correctly the DJ has 2 batteries
From: http://www.pdainternalbattery.com/dellmp3battery.html
The Dell DJ uses: 3.7 Volts 1450 mAh
Apple iPod (new) 3.7 Volts 850 mAh
Apple iPod (old) 3.7 Volts 1200 mAh
*** WHY ON EARTH DID APPLE TAKE A STEP "BACKWARDS".. ***
They had a 1200 mAh battery.. and went down to 850 mAh -are they nuts ???
Apple could end the entire Dell DJ lasts XX Hours longer... and just put in a better battery 1,450+ mAh
Looks like they just cut costs...
850 mAh $49.00
1200 mAh $69.00
Not sure how accurate the prices are... but would make sense that a 1200mAh battery would cost more than a 850mAh
Originally posted by LoCash
They do disclose that the Dell DJ is at 64kbps, and the iPod is 128kbps. It's in the fine print, right where it should be, and where it has always been. Read the fine print on Apple's ads where they compare their kit to competitor's kit. This isn't anything earth shattering. This is why we should always be informed consumers and read the fine print
?????
All it has is:
(4) Assumes audio format is 64kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 min.
Said nothing about iPod being at a higher kbps...
Also..
Im getting really nitpicky... but is the iPod not smaller than the Dell DJ... the "Comparison" showes the DJ as smaller
Originally posted by M.O.S.T
*** WHY ON EARTH DID APPLE TAKE A STEP "BACKWARDS".. ***
This is slightly offtopic, but Apple seems to have a habit of taking steps backwards. Most recently, the last generation of the G4 introduced dual optical drives. Apple was very proud of it. The successor to that Power Mac brought back a single optical drive. Oh well, I guess it wasn't that important.
I'm sure I could conjure up a few more examples if I weren't so tired
Originally posted by M.O.S.T
From: http://www.pdainternalbattery.com/dellmp3battery.html
The Dell DJ uses: 3.7 Volts 1450 mAh
Apple iPod (new) 3.7 Volts 850 mAh
Apple iPod (old) 3.7 Volts 1200 mAh
*** WHY ON EARTH DID APPLE TAKE A STEP "BACKWARDS".. ***
Prismatic and Polymer LiIon cells all are made with about the same storage density. Apple wanted to reduce the physical size, so they used less hungry electronics and reduced the battery size. They probably also improved the software/firmware.
Being a product designer myself -- I do the circuitry and the industrial/mechanical design -- I'm well aware of the difficulty involved in cramming batteries into a small implement. It can be tough, especially if you're interested in cost as well. Apple's move to better electronics is an extremely desirable solution since it keeps the cost down, reduces the size, and reduces the heat. Since Dell does no real product design, they aren't able to tweak the electronics so they just have to put in huge batteries and hope that economies of scale can allow for profits. But the DJ looks like a piece of shit, and it will be Dell's last music player.
I'm also not sure of the amount of RAM in the Dell DJ. That's one of the more appealing things in the iPod: the huge cache.
On a side note, I crammed 2650mAh of LiIon into a TV remote sized thing that reads RFID tags. With the new Broadcomm 802.11 chips, the battery life increases by a factor of 5 to 10 depending on RFID settings. So I could reduce it to 850mAh and still be great, but instead I just kept the big cells and you can use it non-stop for a week.
In Australia, our Trade Practices Act imposes penalties for conduct which is likely to mislead or deceive. Fine print is almost never sufficient to excuse advertising which is otherwise misleading.
Consequences for breaching this act include fines, having to publish retractions and damages to others affected.
Without knowing all the details, if what M.O.S.T says is right, Dell would not have a leg to stand on in Australia.
cheers
adamr
Originally posted by adamr
Sorry about coming in late on this thread, but doesn't the US have laws preventing misleading advertising.
In Australia, our Trade Practices Act imposes penalties for conduct which is likely to mislead or deceive. Fine print is almost never sufficient to excuse advertising which is otherwise misleading.
Consequences for breaching this act include fines, having to publish retractions and damages to others affected.
Without knowing all the details, if what M.O.S.T says is right, Dell would not have a leg to stand on in Australia.
cheers
adamr
WOW, thats sad (that we are that bad)!
In America its home of the:
Fine print - disclaimer
Sub Disclaimers
Sub- sub disclaimers
Sub- sub- sub- sub- sub- sub- sub disclaimers
one of my friends recently purchased a DJ, and i got to check it out the other day. obviously its a piece of crap compared to the ipod, but i can see where people would choose it over the ipod in terms of price. for the people that dont care about what their buying when it comes to computers, the dj is fine. i'm not saying its gonna get off the ground or anything, but it wasnt as plasticky as i expected. anyways, like i said, i'm still not a fan and wouldnt recommend it to anyone, but at least i can say that having tried one myself.
</slightly off topic>
But, again, people don't usually care about specs to a large extent. The look and feel of a consumer device really make more difference than what it can do as long as it doesn't suck. Case in point: How many iPod knock-offs have been to market in the last 2 years? Lots. How many do you see? Few. The only thing the dell DJ is going to do is let Apple make the iPod better.
Originally posted by M.O.S.T
?????
Orginal Ad:
(4) Assumes audio format is 64kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 min.
Did I change Dell ???
IT NOW READS...
4 Assumes audio format is 64 kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 minutes. Dell DJ 15 stores up to 3745 songs assuming audio format is 128 kbps MP3 encoding with average song length of 4 minutes. Dell DJ 20 stores up to 4962 songs assuming audio format is 128 kbps MP3 encoding with average song length of 4 minutes.
Did I change Dell ??? ?????