The Great Flood

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
We were talking about population in my Algebra 3 / Trig. Class and my teacher went into how he doesn?t really trust carbon 14 dating and that he thinks that the great flood could have happened around only 5000 B.C. Is he crazy or is there possibly any truth to this? My biology teacher laughed and said he is completely wrong. Does anyone have any sites or knowledge about this on comparisons?



My math teacher?s main points were saying that a the world was a crust around water that acted as a cushion from the center of the earth so there were no earthquakes or volcanoes?that type of stuff. He said a meteor or something hit and broke the crust, and then the water under enormous pressure was shot as high as the atmosphere out at the polls and that is why there are mammoths frozen so perfectly, as the super cooled water came down, it froze instantly and all that stuff. He also said how the Grand Canyon wasn?t millions of years of the Colorado carving it, but just days of massive amounts of water/mud. He sighted Mt. St. Helens as an example saying that the same thing happened there only on like 1/40th of the scale or something. He also said ?they? (this freaked me out, conspiracy theory sounding an all) don?t want us to know about the other theories and that is why you won?t hear about them. He said that a professor at a college in Arizona was fired because of teaching this sort of thing.



He also said carbon 14 doesn?t work right, and one of his examples was that rock layers are dated older at the top then at the bottom. He went into the fact that carbon 14 found in coal shouldn?t be there if it?s as old as they say and that you can?t use that dating method because it isn?t necessarily a good measure due to the fact that it is a measure of how much carbon 14 is lost in our conditions not the conditions of ancient times.



My biology teacher laughed and said how they disagree on those things and that the older dated rocks are sometimes caused by mountainous regions falling over and so it looks inverted when you date it.





So what do you think, I am young and impressionable, so I?d like to read up on it, as I?m sure we will talk about it tomorrow. My math teacher was pretty convincing but it is probably just because I don?t know enough?just like if someone doesn?t have explanations, it is easy to make it look like we didn?t land on the moon (not to open up another can of worms).



He said more that I could go into but only will if I need to. So I may have made him sound crazier then I should have or less crazier then he really is.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 257
    podmatepodmate Posts: 183member
    Sounds like somebody has been listening to the Creationists again.

  • Reply 2 of 257
    jimdreamworxjimdreamworx Posts: 1,063member
    Check out Zecharia Sitchin's book that have theories close to this. They mention about how Earth was affected by bodies in our solar system - and this is where ancient cultures started with their stories about the gods (which were planets).
  • Reply 3 of 257
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Wonder how the atmosphere is in the teachers lounge...
  • Reply 4 of 257
    agent302agent302 Posts: 974member
    While I know nothing of the dates, it is quite likely that a large flood did in fact happen in Biblical times. The reason for my belief here is that the flood story shows up in a number of Ancient Near East texts. It's in the Old Testament, but it's also in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which leads one to think that some sort of catastrophic flood did happen.



    The flood stories are actually rather enlightening because the provide some insight to the relationship that people had with there surroundings. The Mesopotamians (in the Gilgamesh story), are clearly influenced by the unpredictability of the flood, and thus feel that their gods are playing with them, whereas Noah forms a bond with God after the flood, showing a much more pacified association with there surroundings. Just thought I'd share. Carry on with the Creationist bashing.
  • Reply 5 of 257
    ganondorfganondorf Posts: 573member
    Yeah, there was a Great Flood 5000 years ago, just a couple of thousand years after God took some dust and made the first human with MAGIC GOD POWERS.



    Now that I have taken advantage of an opportunity to crack on religion, I must say that many myths are based in fact, and it is true there are a lot of flood stories. That doesn't necessarily mean that some sort of flood happened, all the flood stories may have just originated with the same lie. But it's still possible.
  • Reply 6 of 257
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    ast3r3x, your teacher has no idea what he's talking about and is just regurgitating some crackpot sci-fi biblical stuff he picked up at the local crystal shop/storefront church.

    Quote:

    Originally posted by agent302

    While I know nothing of the dates, it is quite likely that a large flood did in fact happen in Biblical times. The reason for my belief here is that the flood story shows up in a number of Ancient Near East texts. It's in the Old Testament, but it's also in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which leads one to think that some sort of catastrophic flood did happen.



    Maybe it was the flooding of the black sea. Who knows?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea
  • Reply 7 of 257
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    Wonder how the atmosphere is in the teachers lounge...



    Warning of the Surgeon general : smoking carpet is bad for mental health
  • Reply 8 of 257
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    Maybe it was the flooding of the black sea. Who knows?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea




    Yeah. But it also could be that the Noah story was based on the Gilgamesh story. Either way, it's interesting to speculate.



    asterex: I don't understand the premise. Your teacher said the flood "only happened around 5000 BC?" Is there some prevailing theory that it happened before then? Is there even a prevailing theory that it happened at all? It sure does sound like he's trying to push some kind of creationist theory - the carbon 14 stuff, the "Grand Canyon wasn't created in millions of years" stuff, the "they don't want us to know the truth" stuff and "a professor in Arizona was fired" stuff. Ask him the name of the professor who was fired. I give 100:1 odds that never happened.



    agent302: if anyone deserves bashing, it's creationists.
  • Reply 9 of 257
    agent302agent302 Posts: 974member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    agent302: if anyone deserves bashing, it's creationists.



    I know. I was endorsing Creationist bashing, not being sarcastic.
  • Reply 10 of 257
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    Yeah. But it also could be that the Noah story was based on the Gilgamesh story. Either way, it's interesting to speculate.



    asterex: I don't understand the premise. Your teacher said the flood "only happened around 5000 BC?" Is there some prevailing theory that it happened before then? Is there even a prevailing theory that it happened at all? It sure does sound like he's trying to push some kind of creationist theory - the carbon 14 stuff, the "Grand Canyon wasn't created in millions of years" stuff, the "they don't want us to know the truth" stuff and "a professor in Arizona was fired" stuff. Ask him the name of the professor who was fired. I give 100:1 odds that never happened.




    And if it *did*, I applaud it just as I would a professor teaching Scientology as a reasonable alternative history.



    No wonder our educational system sucks - we're placing our children in the hands of imbeciles incapable of a minimum of rational or critical thinking.
  • Reply 11 of 257
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Well it was just a side topic going off of how the population growth formula didn't take into account tragedies like that stuff. You know how high school is, it's always fun to get the teacher off topic.



    I understand him believing all this stuff though, he is a hard core christian.
  • Reply 12 of 257
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    And if it *did*, I applaud it just as I would a professor teaching Scientology as a reasonable alternative history.



    No wonder our educational system sucks - we're placing our children in the hands of imbeciles incapable of a minimum of rational or critical thinking.




    Really? I wouldn't go that far. I think you're currently in academia, right? You can't - and shouldn't - fire people for loony ideas. High School is different, but not in universities.
  • Reply 13 of 257
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Ok, couple of things. There is nothing wrong with carbon dating. The relative levels of isotopes in the atmosphere overtime have been corrected for by looking at both ice deposites in the artic/antartic and stalgmite/tite formation. While this certainly doesn't give an accurate description beyond a few million years ago, beyond that point creationist have no argument and the variation in isotope levels doesn't vary significantly in that time frame (the idea is that the error cited from the method outweighs the error of not knowing the relative isotope amounts)...



    There are other dating methods available now which are more popular (i think) inclusive of methods measuring the level of argon in samples which is related to the isotope decay of potassium... this gives you a measure of the last time a rock changed chemical composition (ie a process that would release the stored argon) and cannot be used for fossils...



    On the note of floods. There could have been a flood, but I believe the black sea flood thing has been shown to not be possible...
  • Reply 14 of 257
    xenuxenu Posts: 204member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ast3r3x

    Well it was just a side topic going off of how the population growth formula didn't take into account tragedies like that stuff. You know how high school is, it's always fun to get the teacher off topic.



    I understand him believing all this stuff though, he is a hard core christian.




    I guess you are fortunate he is not your science teacher.
  • Reply 15 of 257
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    Really? I wouldn't go that far. I think you're currently in academia, right? You can't - and shouldn't - fire people for loony ideas. High School is different, but not in universities.



    True. High school is about imparting facts and (one would *hope*) critical thinking skills to students so that they have a toolset with which to simply get through life.



    University is about expanding horizons and looking at possible alternatives.





    *HOWEVER* (oh, you knew one was coming ), if a university level professor was teaching random spewage that was indefensible from some basic critiques (and no, 'ineffable mind of God' is not a valid justification), I'd expect them to be yanked out of the classroom and given a nice harmless job doing something else. Students are paying good money to receive a good education. We should strive to give them that, not waste their time, money or neurons.



    (And this is coming from the guy that thinks that cold fusion still has some potential unexplained processes that could turn out to be interesting.)
  • Reply 16 of 257
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha



    (And this is coming from the guy that thinks that cold fusion still has some potential unexplained processes that could turn out to be interesting.)




    Oh and he said he figured out cold fusion as well Haha he is a nice guy and good with math, just...we'll call it a conflict of interests.



    I just wanted to make sure he was crazy and it wasn't one of those "columbus found america" type things. I figured it wasn't, but I'd make sure with the enlightened few on these boards
  • Reply 17 of 257
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Sounds like a nutter to me. \



    Wait... Columbus found America??? Why, was it lost?
  • Reply 18 of 257
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    I have to point out that anyone that has taken Rocks for Jocks (Geology 101) knows that older rocks can be on top of younger rocks for many different reasons. One of the most common is called folding, it's when the pressures force rocks into cool looking shapes.



    Oh, and ask your teacher how he plans to use Carbon-14 testing on inorganic rocks.
  • Reply 19 of 257
    Carbon 14 is cross-corroborated with ice cores and underground calcium deposits too. It's not 100% accurate but I don't think anyone seriously contests that it works.



    So, er, yes: making science fit to a preconceived world-view derived from a very special sacred text in operation vis-a-vis your maths teacher.
  • Reply 20 of 257
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    I have to point out that anyone that has taken Rocks for Jocks (Geology 101) knows that older rocks can be on top of younger rocks for many different reasons. One of the most common is called folding, it's when the pressures force rocks into cool looking shapes.



    Oh, and ask your teacher how he plans to use Carbon-14 testing on inorganic rocks.




    Yeah my biology teacher talked about folding after he stopped laughing Well maybe that isn't what he said, but he simplified it a lot and said basically rocks build up and fall over and then the bottom are at the top and the top is at the bottom so it's inverted. Maybe he didn't say folding, but he did laugh a lot.
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