Can anybody find the video for it without having to install that ESPN motion? I don't windows media 7.1 and I don't want to have to get it. Bertuzzi is a bitch, i'm all for fighting but this seemed pretty retarded haven't seen it yet thought.
Check out the NHL 2004 Trade Deadline Thread ... since all the trades are done now and out of the way, the discussion has turned to this incident. I recommend we all discuss it there.
there's some history. Moore checked Vancouver's captain a few weeks back, giving him a concussion. Some people thought it was a dirty hit, but even if it was it was barely so. There's nothing absurdly horrific that's transpired before that could possibly warrant what happened.
And this is why I don't watch the NHL. Fights are part of the game...sure, but then you get this kind of thuggery it just turns non-NHL sports fans completely off to the game.
It makes me want the Canucks penalized as a team...with the smug look on the coach's face. If they don't impose a penalty on Bertuzzi stiffer than suspending him through the end of the season and play-offs, the league is a joke.
I just watched the clip - Bertuzzi is completely out of line there. I mean, some rough contact and stuff is expected in hockey (even encouraged), and yeah, people will get hurt... but this really should be grounds for criminal charges. What an asshole.
And this is why I don't watch the NHL. Fights are part of the game...sure, but then you get this kind of thuggery it just turns non-NHL sports fans completely off to the game.
Then you don't know what you're missing. There are 30 teams that play 82 games per season, and the playoffs. Yet incidents like this occur in once every 4 years or so. You'll find similar retarded behavior in any other sport just as often. Why they don't turn you off to those sports, I don't know...
To me, watching these wide receivers in the NFL put on these big productions after touchdowns is more disrespectful to the sport that what Bertuzzi did. Baseball players on 'roids. Shaq elbowing the head off of guys (this Jazz incident certainly wasn't the first one for him). It's all there if you want to see it. Bertuzzi is an idiot... but he blew his top, like the many before him have done in any sport, and the many to come.
Don't discredit the NHL because one clown can't control himself.
To me, watching these wide receivers in the NFL put on these big productions after touchdowns is more disrespectful to the sport that what Bertuzzi did. Baseball players on 'roids. Shaq elbowing the head off of guys (this Jazz incident certainly wasn't the first one for him). It's all there if you want to see it. Bertuzzi is an idiot... but he blew his top, like the many before him have done in any sport, and the many to come.
Showboating in the NFL doesn't put a guy face down with a broken neck in a pool of his own blood.
Ephedra, steroids, narcolepsy drugs for runners, asthma drugs for swimmers don't put a guy face down with a broken neck in a pool of his own blood.
Shaq elbowing somebody going for rebound or putting a ball up isn't in the same league as punching someone in the side of the head, from behind and then driving his head into the ground. Shaq's actions, like Moore's, can at least be passed off as incidental and not completely pre-meditated.
It's slippery slope material. If you allow lesser violence like the standard hockey fight, you're setting yourself up closer to the break-point. If the smaller fights are where you draw the line, then planned attacks like McSorley whacking others in the head and Bertuzzi breaking somebody's neck are less likely to happen.
I saw Warren Sapp try to stick his helmet through a guy's earhole last year when he was looking completely the other way during a kickoff. Could have very easily ended up as bad as Moore's injury. ****ed him up REAL bad.
Guess I have to stop watching football.
As for Bertuzzi, I think he's gone for the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the first 20 games of next season.
The fact that the guy broke his neck was a freak occurrence. Again, don't get yourself under the impression that this happens weekly, or even monthly, or even yearly in the NHL.
I'm not defending that punk Bertuzzi. But you're making it sound like the NHL is goon central and the level of violence in it somehow grossly exceeds that in other leagues, which it does not.
And my examples were of people doing harm to their sport, just like Bertuzzi did.
Where you're wrong is when you assume allowing fighting means that more violence will ensue. In fact, the opposite is true. It is the instigator rule, a rule designed to deter fighting, that caused this incident. Were there no instigator rule, Moore would've been in a fight the same night he hit Naslund at it would have all been over and done with. But instead hostilities were allowed to ferment and reach critical mass.
Fighting is something unique to hockey and its culture, and stems directly from the way the game is played by nature. Fast, physical, confined competition spawns frustration and at times violence. But isn't it funny how 3 of the most horrific incidents in the NHL have come since the league has tried to crack down on fighting? (Lemieux, McSorely, Bertuzzi)
PS - Shaq elbows can usually be passed off as incidental contact? Surely you don't buy that. He's an ass and throws his weight around any chance he gets. How many "incidental elbows" does a guy have to throw before he's called out for his reckless behavior?
Hey, football players are so busy selling cocaine, kidnapping, raping women, and killing people, they're too freakin' tired to break necks on the field.
Bertuzzi is a goon and an idiot and will get a nice long sit.
i guess that is my problem...a nice long sit?? if this isn't a part of hockey, if this is an assault and a breaking of somebody's neck, then why isn't he banned for life?? if it is a part of hockey, then why any penalty at all?? hockey has to decide and then stand firm...either it is or isn't a part of the game...and if it isn't the man should not only be out of hockey, not getting a nice sit, but he should be facing some jail time...just my thoughts...didn't some american face canadian courts for hitting somebody in the head with his stick a few years ago??
g
and i have no problem with some fighting in hockey...but i wouldn't call this fighting
as for football players and rape and murder...off the field i would assume?? different than on the playing field action, and they go to jail if caught...well, not oj, but most do...and if they had oj on video tape like this assault i would assume even he would be in jail right now...
well, one difference between the warren sapp "knockout block" and the Ohio State linebacker and this was that neither was stupid enough to say beforehand that they were "going to get" a person. i mean, talk about just vocalizing your pre-meditation. makes the court's job easier, i guess.
and i hate to say this, but having spent a long time around hockey (though never really enjoying it), this sort of thing DOES happen a lot, but it seems to be vocalized and encouraged more in the minors, colleges, etc. i went to several games with parents and families cheering on brothers and sons to take people out, not with checks, but fists. it kinda just bothered me, because some of these people were seemingly sane until they were rink-side.
so when they get to the pro's, i think the ability to do such inane things is still there, buried. some people, it's buried deep, others it just takes a little effort to kick the dirt off to expose it.
(p.s. mind you, i have seen similar outbursts at high school football games and the like, but it seems to be either with less veracity or just less often -- or both).
(p.p.s. by the way, labeling the neck breaking as a freak accident probably won't carry much weight. when you make mistakes (or make calculated actions) that accidentally result in someone's incapacitation or death, it's still taken into account. like the difference between drinking and driving, then only getting into a property damage incident on your way home, versus accidentally hurting or killing someone.)
Why is this tolerance of the occasional fighting unique to hockey? I'll bite.
No other sport has the combination of intense contact, and *continuous* play.
Football is intense, but it's broken up into 20-second segments. Play is over, everyone has a few seconds to cool off and calm down. It's a staccato intensity.
Soccer (and basketball to some degree) are continuous, but not nearly as physically intense. Soccer's probably the closest, but the top speed a human can run is probably about what, 20mph? On skates, cutting a tight curve, a hockey player can hit 60mph at the apex.
Then there's the small, enclosed arena with a hard physical barrier at the boundary.
It's tight, it's intense, and the ongoing play lets emotions keep boiling until sometimes they hit the breaking point. Is it pretty? No. Is it *occasionally* understandable when it happens? Oh yes. Does it justify a Bertuzzi-style clubbing? Never.
I think though, that the league officials have set themselves up for this kind of negative PR / potential fans "not getting it". They constantly waffle and vacillate on issues like fighting. They need to just put their foot down and be done with it, or accept their fate as a "niche sport".
New fans will never be able to "intuit" why some fighting is OK in the NHL. The only reason I ever came to understand it was by playing the game myself and seeing first-hand why "it's different than football" (for example). Most new fans in the US will not have that opportunity or benefit (other than young kids).
The NHL has a bad image problem on its hands and until they take some real action, that will only get worse.
I saw Warren Sapp try to stick his helmet through a guy's earhole last year when he was looking completely the other way during a kickoff. Could have very easily ended up as bad as Moore's injury. ****ed him up REAL bad.
Guess I have to stop watching football.
As for Bertuzzi, I think he's gone for the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the first 20 games of next season.
Hell even baseball players are dieing because of steroids.
Comments
Bertuzzi is a goon and an idiot and will get a nice long sit.
It makes me want the Canucks penalized as a team...with the smug look on the coach's face. If they don't impose a penalty on Bertuzzi stiffer than suspending him through the end of the season and play-offs, the league is a joke.
News Page with Windows Media videos
Click "Streaming Newscast" then Tuesday for RealPlayer videos
Originally posted by Eugene
And this is why I don't watch the NHL. Fights are part of the game...sure, but then you get this kind of thuggery it just turns non-NHL sports fans completely off to the game.
Then you don't know what you're missing. There are 30 teams that play 82 games per season, and the playoffs. Yet incidents like this occur in once every 4 years or so. You'll find similar retarded behavior in any other sport just as often. Why they don't turn you off to those sports, I don't know...
To me, watching these wide receivers in the NFL put on these big productions after touchdowns is more disrespectful to the sport that what Bertuzzi did. Baseball players on 'roids. Shaq elbowing the head off of guys (this Jazz incident certainly wasn't the first one for him). It's all there if you want to see it. Bertuzzi is an idiot... but he blew his top, like the many before him have done in any sport, and the many to come.
Don't discredit the NHL because one clown can't control himself.
Originally posted by rageous
To me, watching these wide receivers in the NFL put on these big productions after touchdowns is more disrespectful to the sport that what Bertuzzi did. Baseball players on 'roids. Shaq elbowing the head off of guys (this Jazz incident certainly wasn't the first one for him). It's all there if you want to see it. Bertuzzi is an idiot... but he blew his top, like the many before him have done in any sport, and the many to come.
Showboating in the NFL doesn't put a guy face down with a broken neck in a pool of his own blood.
Ephedra, steroids, narcolepsy drugs for runners, asthma drugs for swimmers don't put a guy face down with a broken neck in a pool of his own blood.
Shaq elbowing somebody going for rebound or putting a ball up isn't in the same league as punching someone in the side of the head, from behind and then driving his head into the ground. Shaq's actions, like Moore's, can at least be passed off as incidental and not completely pre-meditated.
It's slippery slope material. If you allow lesser violence like the standard hockey fight, you're setting yourself up closer to the break-point. If the smaller fights are where you draw the line, then planned attacks like McSorley whacking others in the head and Bertuzzi breaking somebody's neck are less likely to happen.
Guess I have to stop watching football.
As for Bertuzzi, I think he's gone for the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the first 20 games of next season.
I'm not defending that punk Bertuzzi. But you're making it sound like the NHL is goon central and the level of violence in it somehow grossly exceeds that in other leagues, which it does not.
And my examples were of people doing harm to their sport, just like Bertuzzi did.
Where you're wrong is when you assume allowing fighting means that more violence will ensue. In fact, the opposite is true. It is the instigator rule, a rule designed to deter fighting, that caused this incident. Were there no instigator rule, Moore would've been in a fight the same night he hit Naslund at it would have all been over and done with. But instead hostilities were allowed to ferment and reach critical mass.
Fighting is something unique to hockey and its culture, and stems directly from the way the game is played by nature. Fast, physical, confined competition spawns frustration and at times violence. But isn't it funny how 3 of the most horrific incidents in the NHL have come since the league has tried to crack down on fighting? (Lemieux, McSorely, Bertuzzi)
PS - Shaq elbows can usually be passed off as incidental contact? Surely you don't buy that. He's an ass and throws his weight around any chance he gets. How many "incidental elbows" does a guy have to throw before he's called out for his reckless behavior?
Originally posted by rageous
there isn't much discussion necessary.
Bertuzzi is a goon and an idiot and will get a nice long sit.
i guess that is my problem...a nice long sit?? if this isn't a part of hockey, if this is an assault and a breaking of somebody's neck, then why isn't he banned for life?? if it is a part of hockey, then why any penalty at all?? hockey has to decide and then stand firm...either it is or isn't a part of the game...and if it isn't the man should not only be out of hockey, not getting a nice sit, but he should be facing some jail time...just my thoughts...didn't some american face canadian courts for hitting somebody in the head with his stick a few years ago??
g
and i have no problem with some fighting in hockey...but i wouldn't call this fighting
as for football players and rape and murder...off the field i would assume?? different than on the playing field action, and they go to jail if caught...well, not oj, but most do...and if they had oj on video tape like this assault i would assume even he would be in jail right now...
and i hate to say this, but having spent a long time around hockey (though never really enjoying it), this sort of thing DOES happen a lot, but it seems to be vocalized and encouraged more in the minors, colleges, etc. i went to several games with parents and families cheering on brothers and sons to take people out, not with checks, but fists. it kinda just bothered me, because some of these people were seemingly sane until they were rink-side.
so when they get to the pro's, i think the ability to do such inane things is still there, buried. some people, it's buried deep, others it just takes a little effort to kick the dirt off to expose it.
(p.s. mind you, i have seen similar outbursts at high school football games and the like, but it seems to be either with less veracity or just less often -- or both).
(p.p.s. by the way, labeling the neck breaking as a freak accident probably won't carry much weight. when you make mistakes (or make calculated actions) that accidentally result in someone's incapacitation or death, it's still taken into account. like the difference between drinking and driving, then only getting into a property damage incident on your way home, versus accidentally hurting or killing someone.)
No other sport has the combination of intense contact, and *continuous* play.
Football is intense, but it's broken up into 20-second segments. Play is over, everyone has a few seconds to cool off and calm down. It's a staccato intensity.
Soccer (and basketball to some degree) are continuous, but not nearly as physically intense. Soccer's probably the closest, but the top speed a human can run is probably about what, 20mph? On skates, cutting a tight curve, a hockey player can hit 60mph at the apex.
Then there's the small, enclosed arena with a hard physical barrier at the boundary.
It's tight, it's intense, and the ongoing play lets emotions keep boiling until sometimes they hit the breaking point. Is it pretty? No. Is it *occasionally* understandable when it happens? Oh yes. Does it justify a Bertuzzi-style clubbing? Never.
I think though, that the league officials have set themselves up for this kind of negative PR / potential fans "not getting it". They constantly waffle and vacillate on issues like fighting. They need to just put their foot down and be done with it, or accept their fate as a "niche sport".
New fans will never be able to "intuit" why some fighting is OK in the NHL. The only reason I ever came to understand it was by playing the game myself and seeing first-hand why "it's different than football" (for example). Most new fans in the US will not have that opportunity or benefit (other than young kids).
The NHL has a bad image problem on its hands and until they take some real action, that will only get worse.
Originally posted by murbot
I saw Warren Sapp try to stick his helmet through a guy's earhole last year when he was looking completely the other way during a kickoff. Could have very easily ended up as bad as Moore's injury. ****ed him up REAL bad.
Guess I have to stop watching football.
As for Bertuzzi, I think he's gone for the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the first 20 games of next season.
Hell even baseball players are dieing because of steroids.