What the hell is going on in this country?
NyTimes Article
The article is about the medicare bill passed last year (?) and some of the apparent goings on behind the scenes in the Bush administration, inclusive of creating an environment that was not conducive for full disclosure to congress...
I don't want this to be another Bush-bashing thread, and I will ask the mods to watch it so that if it starts to rot that way could they lock it...
Anyway, I am more interested in what sort of environment allows or forces any political party to keep such a tight ship. Is this even politically useful in a country based upon some sort of individual freedoms? Etc.
The article is about the medicare bill passed last year (?) and some of the apparent goings on behind the scenes in the Bush administration, inclusive of creating an environment that was not conducive for full disclosure to congress...
I don't want this to be another Bush-bashing thread, and I will ask the mods to watch it so that if it starts to rot that way could they lock it...
Anyway, I am more interested in what sort of environment allows or forces any political party to keep such a tight ship. Is this even politically useful in a country based upon some sort of individual freedoms? Etc.
Comments
there's a reason most major diseases occur after a certain age... we aren't meant to grow as old as we now do.
Originally posted by rageous
I'd rather die at 40 (like the human body is designed to) than become a part of the medicare/medicaid/social security nanny state our country has become.
there's a reason most major diseases occur after a certain age... we aren't meant to grow as old as we now do.
When one of your relative will became old, you will start to think otherwise.
Originally posted by Ganondorf
Yes, when you become old, you also become weaker and stupider.
yes it's called the aging process. What's your point ? : preventive euthanasia ?
Originally posted by Powerdoc
preventive euthanasia ?
Sounds like abortion to me...
Originally posted by Jubelum
Sounds like abortion to me...
Only if you start early enough...
Sounds like another wonderful plan put forth by this administration. Why is it that there are so many discrepencies with this administration? I'm really begining to think these guys have completely swindled the US, and it's only getting worse.
Originally posted by Jubelum
Sounds like abortion to me...
Only if you like throwing Bibles at people.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Only if you like throwing Bibles at people.
It just reminded me of the line of thinking from the early 90s that abortion was OK to prevent human suffering for a child who would otherwise be born in to poverty... that's all.
Throwing Bibles? Hmmm.... I've never done that... <looks around for Bible and victim>
Originally posted by FaydRautha
Only if you start early enough...
Sounds like another wonderful plan put forth by this administration. Why is it that there are so many discrepencies with this administration? I'm really begining to think these guys have completely swindled the US, and it's only getting worse.
From a registered Rep. I can tell you that once you stop being fanatical about your party and begin to analize facts, you can't but be disgusted with the little neo-con , religious fools abundant in this administration and their policies.
Originally posted by FaydRautha
I'm really begining to think these guys have completely swindled the US...
Um, Senator, your mic is still on...
Originally posted by Jubelum
Throwing Bibles? Hmmm.... I've never done that... <looks around for Bible and victim>
Run out of Bibles? I have a feeling you've at least prayed a-la Pat Robertson.
Originally posted by billybobsky
NyTimes Article
The article is about the medicare bill passed last year (?) and some of the apparent goings on behind the scenes in the Bush administration, inclusive of creating an environment that was not conducive for full disclosure to congress...
I don't want this to be another Bush-bashing thread, and I will ask the mods to watch it so that if it starts to rot that way could they lock it...
Anyway, I am more interested in what sort of environment allows or forces any political party to keep such a tight ship. Is this even politically useful in a country based upon some sort of individual freedoms? Etc.
I'll answer this in a manner that is as non-partisan as I can.
-Party A holds the key to the cookie jar.
-Party A didn't get the key in a conventional manner so its hold is a little dubious.
-Part A knows that if it make certain children happy by giving them some cookies it might just get another chance to hold the key for another term.
-Part B has had a handful of plans floating around for years. The people in principle like party B's plans, but has an aversion to the costs.
-Party A decides to steal issues from Party B, at all costs, by passing these very same laws that Party B had on the shelf. Certain members of Part A and B would balk at the proposed laws if the true number of cookies required was know, so Party A engages in some subterfuge.
-One of the children sees Party A throw away the grocery store receipt thus hiding the costs of the cookies in the jar.
-This child is a little scared to mention the missing receipt until another child says "This doesn't add up".
-Party B finally gets some balls, and the backing of some of the children to ask about the missing receipt.
The rest goes downhill from there. This sort of thing isn't new in politics. Subterfuge, and issue stealing have been around probably as long as politics. What makes this such a newsworthy story is the extent of the subterfuge, and the amount of discord surrounding the law in question. People didn't like the price-tag associated with the cookies in the first place and now it comes to light the cookies will cost even more than before...
Again, Bush's admin isn't the first to engage in back-room tactics. Tricky Dick's administration is another notable regime associated with nefarious political practices. Its not new, the public just hasn't seen this in a while.
As far as the driving political environment goes, look at the republican party. This party underwent a drastic change in the 94 elections swinging the balance from centrist to right wing. It took awhile for the full swing, but 94 was the year when the transformation was fully evident. 2000 brought us a Republican trio House, Senate, and President, so like children in a candy shop they ran wild. The Dems have been centrist on the whole for some time now, so there isn't a real good balance in DC at the moment IMO. The quest to remain in power in order to keep the keys to the cookie jar are driving many of these issues.
Why citizens are sitting idly by as these events occur is beyond me. I don't care if this kind of misrepresentation was carried out by an Elephant or an Ass it is unacceptable. But, we live in a society of fear and patriotism which is quenching the outrage.
Originally posted by rageous
I'd rather die at 40 (like the human body is designed to) than become a part of the medicare/medicaid/social security nanny state our country has become.
there's a reason most major diseases occur after a certain age... we aren't meant to grow as old as we now do.
Grow up dude. Spoken like a typical young pup.
When you've got a loving wife and a couple of kids who love you, I'm sure you'd rather be buried than pop a few pills and hit the hospital when something goes wrong with ya.
"Later family, I ain't gonna be no patsy for the friggin' medicare nanny state! Peace out!"
Originally posted by murbot
"Later family, I ain't gonna be no patsy for the friggin' medicare nanny state! Peace out!"
Truly Funny. Look out Luca.
Originally posted by Gilsch
From a registered Rep. I can tell you that once you stop being fanatical about your party and begin to analyze facts, you can't but be disgusted with the little neo-con , religious fools abundant in this administration and their policies.
Exactly, I have a die hard republican friend who sings the glories of Bush-Co. He refuses to see the unrepublican nature of the neo-conservative movement. Some people don't like to think. They just like to be told what to do. Some of these people have aligned themselves blindly with one party and follow that line no matter what because the party says so.
Originally posted by faust9
Some people don't like to think. They just like to be told what to do. Some of these people have aligned themselves blindly with one party and follow that line no matter what because the party says so.
Bingo.
The evils of blind political allegiance... no matter the ideology.
Originally posted by murbot
"Later family, I ain't gonna be no patsy for the friggin' medicare nanny state! Peace out!"
LOL, now that was funny.
Makes you wonder how some people can actually use computers. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Originally posted by faust9
I'll answer this in a manner that is as non-partisan as I can.
-Party A holds the key to the cookie jar.
-Party A didn't get the key in a conventional manner so its hold is a little dubious.
-Part A knows that if it make certain children happy by giving them some cookies it might just get another chance to hold the key for another term.
-Part B has had a handful of plans floating around for years. The people in principle like party B's plans, but has an aversion to the costs.
-Party A decides to steal issues from Party B, at all costs, by passing these very same laws that Party B had on the shelf. Certain members of Part A and B would balk at the proposed laws if the true number of cookies required was know, so Party A engages in some subterfuge.
-One of the children sees Party A throw away the grocery store receipt thus hiding the costs of the cookies in the jar.
-This child is a little scared to mention the missing receipt until another child says "This doesn't add up".
-Party B finally gets some balls, and the backing of some of the children to ask about the missing receipt.
The rest goes downhill from there. This sort of thing isn't new in politics. Subterfuge, and issue stealing have been around probably as long as politics. What makes this such a newsworthy story is the extent of the subterfuge, and the amount of discord surrounding the law in question. People didn't like the price-tag associated with the cookies in the first place and now it comes to light the cookies will cost even more than before...
Again, Bush's admin isn't the first to engage in back-room tactics. Tricky Dick's administration is another notable regime associated with nefarious political practices. Its not new, the public just hasn't seen this in a while.
As far as the driving political environment goes, look at the republican party. This party underwent a drastic change in the 94 elections swinging the balance from centrist to right wing. It took awhile for the full swing, but 94 was the year when the transformation was fully evident. 2000 brought us a Republican trio House, Senate, and President, so like children in a candy shop they ran wild. The Dems have been centrist on the whole for some time now, so there isn't a real good balance in DC at the moment IMO. The quest to remain in power in order to keep the keys to the cookie jar are driving many of these issues.
Why citizens are sitting idly by as these events occur is beyond me. I don't care if this kind of misrepresentation was carried out by an Elephant or an Ass it is unacceptable. But, we live in a society of fear and patriotism which is quenching the outrage.
That was like reading the sunday comics, good material.
Originally posted by murbot
Grow up dude. Spoken like a typical young pup.
When you've got a loving wife and a couple of kids who love you, I'm sure you'd rather be buried than pop a few pills and hit the hospital when something goes wrong with ya.
"Later family, I ain't gonna be no patsy for the friggin' medicare nanny state! Peace out!"
THAT is what I mean.....