(among MANY experiences I've had fixing friends'/family's PCs... I too once found over 1000 instances of spyware/adware/junk on a friend's computer thanks to Ad-aware/Spyboy)
This past weekend my roommate started having some serious troubles with his PC (Windows XP). He'd already recently been having some bugs with apps crashing and random weird things not working (his Start menu, for example, wouldn't open). This guy is pretty smart when it comes to PCs, I should note. He's a senior in computer engineering and he knows almost as much about Windows as I know about Mac OS X.
He checks and installs all the security updates regularly. He runs Ad-Aware and Spybot once a week. He has Norton autoprotecting everything it can. I even got him to switch to Mozilla FireFox and Thunderbird and to give up IE and Outlook!
But did that save him? Nope. Either a really weird bug in Windows XP SP2 hit him or he got a virus/worm/something or Windows just decided it didn't like him.
We tried reinstalling Windows XP, repairing Windows XP, even installing on another partition. Only the last option helped (we'd decided to just salvage his files, move them over the network to my Mac, and wipe his partition clean), but even then, his files were inaccessible! That's right, even as an admin user on a separate partition/drive, he couldn't get to his user files on the other drive. He labeled this as a "security feature" of Windows, but I still hold that it is pointless to protect data on another drive like that from the *admin* user. After all, if someone physically has access to the machine to be doing what we're doing, all someone has to do to get the data is... well... what I decided to do.
So, we opened up our computers. I took his drive and popped it into my Mac. Reboot. Voila! It mounts on my desktop and... everything is accessible. So, Windows refuses to read "protected" user data from another Windows installation, but if you use a different OS like Linux or Mac OS X, it's all there plain and simple.
I copied everything he needed to my Mac and we erased his drive and reinstalled Windows XP.
Was the adventure over yet? Nope.
As soon as he starts up his computer, he runs the Windows Update and then starts installing his basic apps. Norton Antivirus was one of the first. Guess what it says? It's already finding a worm or some sort! On a clean install!
I can't help but chuckle. As soon as he plugged into the network, someone fed his computer some crap through one of Windows XP's many vulnerabilities that he hadn't had the chance to patch yet.
I too once found over 1000 instances of spyware/adware/junk on a friend's computer
Ad-Aware, at least, reports tracking cookies in its scanning results. Unless you have cookies shut off, they will account for the bulk of the items that the software reports. If you happen to have spyware/adware installed, Ad-Aware reports each registry key and value individually.
That said, Windows does have a problem with spyware, and I attribute that in large part to Internet Explorer. Using Firefox or Mozilla seems to cut down significantly on spyware.
Another factor may be the temptation to give oneself administrator privileges. Some Windows control panels and installers seem to have problems requesting Administrator privileges. OS X has this problem to some degree, but not nearly as much as Windows. I've had a few installers crap out on me because my regular account isn't a member of Administrators. They never asked for a username and a password; they just bailed out halfway through. Some control panels and applications will ask for authentication if necessary; others won't. The Run As... service (like a graphical version of sudo, invoked by shift-right-clicking a program) is really indispensable, especially in 2000 where there's no fast user switching.
I can't help but chuckle. As soon as he plugged into the network, someone fed his computer some crap through one of Windows XP's many vulnerabilities that he hadn't had the chance to patch yet.
Yea, this happens a lot. You can't connect a Windows computer to the network before you install the newest Service Pack.
After the Service Pack, Windows Update. After Windows Update, you install the antivirus (and possibly firewall).
Ironically, the biggest point of failure of my last Windows install was that my antivirus software crashed the OS a couple of times a year. Otherwise the system was mostly stable.
Ad-Aware, at least, reports tracking cookies in its scanning results.
Allow me to clarify, then: 1000 non-cookie instances. Now do you see the magnitude of the problem? Granted, this was a computer that hadn't had a clear reinstall in about 5 years and the operator was not the saaviest computer user...
Which, in turn, is impossible to install without connecting to the network!
The (only) answer is, you d/l on a computer that is set up right. In the case of my last install, I downloaded the SP on the hard disk using my previous OS. You could also burn it to a CD, or transfer it via LAN while you're cut from the Internet.
I'm sorry to say, but there is spyware, keystroke recorders and screen recorders for the Mac.
Well, of course they exist. I could write my own keystroke recorder if I wanted to.
The important distinction here is that these buggers aren't a prevalent part of using Mac OS X. You don't have to surf the web in fear of accidentally clicking something that will install spyware on your computer. You don't have to worry about whether on not you can safely open your e-mails. You don't have to worry about simply plugging in your network cable. Et cetera ad infinitem.
That is the problem with Windows. It's not that spyware and viruses exists; they can and will exist on any platform. The problem is that they are so widespread that problems are epidemic.
edit: The amount to which this is a problem on the Mac also depends greatly on your definition of "spyware" -- some apps phone home to check a registration/serial number, for example, but that is a legitimate call and I do not consider spyware. The intrusive and malicious spyware that is so common on Windows in practically nonexistant for Mac OS X.
Comments
(among MANY experiences I've had fixing friends'/family's PCs... I too once found over 1000 instances of spyware/adware/junk on a friend's computer thanks to Ad-aware/Spyboy)
This past weekend my roommate started having some serious troubles with his PC (Windows XP). He'd already recently been having some bugs with apps crashing and random weird things not working (his Start menu, for example, wouldn't open). This guy is pretty smart when it comes to PCs, I should note. He's a senior in computer engineering and he knows almost as much about Windows as I know about Mac OS X.
He checks and installs all the security updates regularly. He runs Ad-Aware and Spybot once a week. He has Norton autoprotecting everything it can. I even got him to switch to Mozilla FireFox and Thunderbird and to give up IE and Outlook!
But did that save him? Nope. Either a really weird bug in Windows XP SP2 hit him or he got a virus/worm/something or Windows just decided it didn't like him.
We tried reinstalling Windows XP, repairing Windows XP, even installing on another partition. Only the last option helped (we'd decided to just salvage his files, move them over the network to my Mac, and wipe his partition clean), but even then, his files were inaccessible! That's right, even as an admin user on a separate partition/drive, he couldn't get to his user files on the other drive. He labeled this as a "security feature" of Windows, but I still hold that it is pointless to protect data on another drive like that from the *admin* user. After all, if someone physically has access to the machine to be doing what we're doing, all someone has to do to get the data is... well... what I decided to do.
So, we opened up our computers. I took his drive and popped it into my Mac. Reboot. Voila! It mounts on my desktop and... everything is accessible. So, Windows refuses to read "protected" user data from another Windows installation, but if you use a different OS like Linux or Mac OS X, it's all there plain and simple.
I copied everything he needed to my Mac and we erased his drive and reinstalled Windows XP.
Was the adventure over yet? Nope.
As soon as he starts up his computer, he runs the Windows Update and then starts installing his basic apps. Norton Antivirus was one of the first. Guess what it says? It's already finding a worm or some sort! On a clean install!
I can't help but chuckle. As soon as he plugged into the network, someone fed his computer some crap through one of Windows XP's many vulnerabilities that he hadn't had the chance to patch yet.
Beautiful.
Originally posted by Artman @_@
Windows XP (& 98, ME, 2000 et al) is a virus.
Unix is a virus.
I too once found over 1000 instances of spyware/adware/junk on a friend's computer
Ad-Aware, at least, reports tracking cookies in its scanning results. Unless you have cookies shut off, they will account for the bulk of the items that the software reports. If you happen to have spyware/adware installed, Ad-Aware reports each registry key and value individually.
That said, Windows does have a problem with spyware, and I attribute that in large part to Internet Explorer. Using Firefox or Mozilla seems to cut down significantly on spyware.
Another factor may be the temptation to give oneself administrator privileges. Some Windows control panels and installers seem to have problems requesting Administrator privileges. OS X has this problem to some degree, but not nearly as much as Windows. I've had a few installers crap out on me because my regular account isn't a member of Administrators. They never asked for a username and a password; they just bailed out halfway through. Some control panels and applications will ask for authentication if necessary; others won't. The Run As... service (like a graphical version of sudo, invoked by shift-right-clicking a program) is really indispensable, especially in 2000 where there's no fast user switching.
Originally posted by Brad
I can't help but chuckle. As soon as he plugged into the network, someone fed his computer some crap through one of Windows XP's many vulnerabilities that he hadn't had the chance to patch yet.
Yea, this happens a lot. You can't connect a Windows computer to the network before you install the newest Service Pack.
After the Service Pack, Windows Update. After Windows Update, you install the antivirus (and possibly firewall).
Ironically, the biggest point of failure of my last Windows install was that my antivirus software crashed the OS a couple of times a year. Otherwise the system was mostly stable.
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
Ad-Aware, at least, reports tracking cookies in its scanning results.
Allow me to clarify, then: 1000 non-cookie instances. Now do you see the magnitude of the problem? Granted, this was a computer that hadn't had a clear reinstall in about 5 years and the operator was not the saaviest computer user...
Originally posted by Gon
You can't connect a Windows computer to the network before you install the newest Service Pack.
Which, in turn, is impossible to install without connecting to the network!
Originally posted by Brad
Which, in turn, is impossible to install without connecting to the network!
The (only) answer is, you d/l on a computer that is set up right. In the case of my last install, I downloaded the SP on the hard disk using my previous OS. You could also burn it to a CD, or transfer it via LAN while you're cut from the Internet.
Ultimate gotcha for newbies.
I will not tell you where to get them.
But I will tell you about a nifty program that will block all outbound network traffic so you can find these little critters yourself.
Little Snitch
Originally posted by Sailfish
I'm sorry to say, but there is spyware, keystroke recorders and screen recorders for the Mac.
Well, of course they exist. I could write my own keystroke recorder if I wanted to.
The important distinction here is that these buggers aren't a prevalent part of using Mac OS X. You don't have to surf the web in fear of accidentally clicking something that will install spyware on your computer. You don't have to worry about whether on not you can safely open your e-mails. You don't have to worry about simply plugging in your network cable. Et cetera ad infinitem.
That is the problem with Windows. It's not that spyware and viruses exists; they can and will exist on any platform. The problem is that they are so widespread that problems are epidemic.
edit: The amount to which this is a problem on the Mac also depends greatly on your definition of "spyware" -- some apps phone home to check a registration/serial number, for example, but that is a legitimate call and I do not consider spyware. The intrusive and malicious spyware that is so common on Windows in practically nonexistant for Mac OS X.
Originally posted by Brad
Another personal anecdote ...
Beautiful.
Yes indeed. I would call it: "the beauty of wasting your time."
But than, everything to your likeing
best
Originally posted by Chinney
This machine had come from the factory with viruses pre-installed!!! Has anyone heard of this happening?
a few years back, Compaq shipped thousands of laptops with Viruses pre-installed
and I have seen universities master discs of educational s/w for staff, then park a virus on it