I never have liked (from the beginning) this assumption that the bin Laden family itself is suspicious because of ObL. The nefariousness of it all seems to rely way too much on simple racism. "Well, he's from that family... they have the same last name... OIL!"
Perhaps the book goes into greater detail as to why it should concern me that people named "bin Laden" were allowed to leave or fly around or whatever, but I sure as hell am not impressed by their last names alone.
I never have liked (from the beginning) this assumption that the bin Laden family itself is suspicious because of ObL. The nefariousness of it all seems to rely way too much on simple racism. "Well, he's from that family... they have the same last name... OIL!"
Perhaps the book goes into greater detail as to why it should concern me that people named "bin Laden" were allowed to leave or fly around or whatever, but I sure as hell am not impressed by their last names alone.
I agree to a bit with this too. But the Bin Ladens have a huge construction empire. They renovated the Grand Mosque in Mecca, the site of a violent seige in 1979 that involved Mahrous bin Laden. They've practicaly built Saudi Arabia as it is today from the ground up. Plus many Euopean companies and of course oil rigs and corporate headquarters for many oil companies.
Believe me the bin Laden family ain't the Brady Bunch.
Remember the accusation of Saudi Royals funding 9.11?
The incident cited is the check that made its way from Princess Haifi supposedly to Atta.
Who is Haifa?
Quote:
But a smaller moment may have cemented the bond between the elder Bush and Bandar. When George and Barbara Bush visited the troops in Saudi Arabia during the Thanksgiving holiday in 1990, Bush called Bandar, who was in Saudi Arabia at the time. Bandar went to the private quarters in the royal palace where the Bushes were staying. Bush had tears in his eyes, and Bandar, worried, asked what had happened. Bush explained that Dorothy, their recently divorced daughter, was alone at the White House with her children. They had called her from the airplane and learned that Bandar's wife, Haifa, had invited Doro and her children to spend Thanksgiving with her. ("I don't have parents now," Haifa told me. "The Bushes are like my mother and father. I know if ever I needed anything I could go to them.")
On the day before the 1992 election, Bandar was in Houston; at around two in the morning, unable to sleep, he wrote an emotional letter to Bush in which he expressed gratitude to Bush for saving his country. "You are my friend for life, one of my family," he wrote. "Tomorrow you win either way. If you win, you deserve it, and if you lose you are in good company," and he reminded Bush that Churchill had won the war but lost the election. Bandar had the letter delivered at four in the morning. At around six that evening, Bush called; the exit polls were showing a Clinton victory. "It's over," Bush said. (Bush recently confirmed that he had received this letter from Bandar.) "It was like I lost one of my family, dead," Bandar said. He told the King that he wanted to resign.
I never have liked (from the beginning) this assumption that the bin Laden family itself is suspicious because of ObL.
I have a hard time buying the idea that Osama just cut off all ties from his family. That's a highly unlikely scenario, and he was in the family business for much of his life.
I am reading this book right now, (together with Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy). In "Fortunate Son", there are 55 pages of sources listed towards the back of the book (pages 319-374), and the huge majority of these refences are from the regular newspapers that everyone reads.
It is incredible, and sad, a chilling indictment of the state of American "democracy" that this man, with so little knowledge of the real world, so little understanding of the way ordinary people live, with such a background of bigotry and intolerance in his family, someone who has never done an honest days' work in all his life and so on...couild have become the "leader" (!) of the free world. If Bush is "elected" in November, the world is toast...we may as well just give up now and give up on all hope of making this world a decent and habitable place for future generations. Although I am an atheist all I can say is 'may God help us all'.
I have a hard time buying the idea that Osama just cut off all ties from his family. That's a highly unlikely scenario, and he was in the family business for much of his life.
Osama is not a "black sheep"...far from it. He was seen at one of his many siblings' wedding, 3 months before 9-11.
Guilt by association giant? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Guilt by association?
Where did I say anyone was guilty of anything?
However, apparently unlike some here, I fully realize that there is a strong possibility that some members of the Bin Laden family still maintain contact with Osama. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. But I see absolutely zero reason why I should believe that there is no contact and I recognize the unlikelyhood that Osama is totally out of contact with all members of the family.
Does that make them guilty of anything? Not by itself. But then again, it's you making all the huge leaps.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Which is why I posted the details rather than post a lie from a book.
you mean a book jacket (the devil is in the details isn't it?)
Think Bush will be asking for his support again?
Perhaps the book goes into greater detail as to why it should concern me that people named "bin Laden" were allowed to leave or fly around or whatever, but I sure as hell am not impressed by their last names alone.
but the fact that a ton of arab americans were incarcerated for less is a little troubling to me.
which is the big picture.
Originally posted by groverat
I never have liked (from the beginning) this assumption that the bin Laden family itself is suspicious because of ObL. The nefariousness of it all seems to rely way too much on simple racism. "Well, he's from that family... they have the same last name... OIL!"
Perhaps the book goes into greater detail as to why it should concern me that people named "bin Laden" were allowed to leave or fly around or whatever, but I sure as hell am not impressed by their last names alone.
I agree to a bit with this too. But the Bin Ladens have a huge construction empire. They renovated the Grand Mosque in Mecca, the site of a violent seige in 1979 that involved Mahrous bin Laden. They've practicaly built Saudi Arabia as it is today from the ground up. Plus many Euopean companies and of course oil rigs and corporate headquarters for many oil companies.
Believe me the bin Laden family ain't the Brady Bunch.
The incident cited is the check that made its way from Princess Haifi supposedly to Atta.
Who is Haifa?
But a smaller moment may have cemented the bond between the elder Bush and Bandar. When George and Barbara Bush visited the troops in Saudi Arabia during the Thanksgiving holiday in 1990, Bush called Bandar, who was in Saudi Arabia at the time. Bandar went to the private quarters in the royal palace where the Bushes were staying. Bush had tears in his eyes, and Bandar, worried, asked what had happened. Bush explained that Dorothy, their recently divorced daughter, was alone at the White House with her children. They had called her from the airplane and learned that Bandar's wife, Haifa, had invited Doro and her children to spend Thanksgiving with her. ("I don't have parents now," Haifa told me. "The Bushes are like my mother and father. I know if ever I needed anything I could go to them.")
On the day before the 1992 election, Bandar was in Houston; at around two in the morning, unable to sleep, he wrote an emotional letter to Bush in which he expressed gratitude to Bush for saving his country. "You are my friend for life, one of my family," he wrote. "Tomorrow you win either way. If you win, you deserve it, and if you lose you are in good company," and he reminded Bush that Churchill had won the war but lost the election. Bandar had the letter delivered at four in the morning. At around six that evening, Bush called; the exit polls were showing a Clinton victory. "It's over," Bush said. (Bush recently confirmed that he had received this letter from Bandar.) "It was like I lost one of my family, dead," Bandar said. He told the King that he wanted to resign.
Read it all for yourself:
http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/...2003_04_30.htm
Originally posted by groverat
I never have liked (from the beginning) this assumption that the bin Laden family itself is suspicious because of ObL.
I have a hard time buying the idea that Osama just cut off all ties from his family. That's a highly unlikely scenario, and he was in the family business for much of his life.
It is incredible, and sad, a chilling indictment of the state of American "democracy" that this man, with so little knowledge of the real world, so little understanding of the way ordinary people live, with such a background of bigotry and intolerance in his family, someone who has never done an honest days' work in all his life and so on...couild have become the "leader" (!) of the free world. If Bush is "elected" in November, the world is toast...we may as well just give up now and give up on all hope of making this world a decent and habitable place for future generations. Although I am an atheist all I can say is 'may God help us all'.
Originally posted by giant
I have a hard time buying the idea that Osama just cut off all ties from his family. That's a highly unlikely scenario, and he was in the family business for much of his life.
Osama is not a "black sheep"...far from it. He was seen at one of his many siblings' wedding, 3 months before 9-11.
Originally posted by Scott
Guilt by association giant? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Guilt by association?
Where did I say anyone was guilty of anything?
However, apparently unlike some here, I fully realize that there is a strong possibility that some members of the Bin Laden family still maintain contact with Osama. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. But I see absolutely zero reason why I should believe that there is no contact and I recognize the unlikelyhood that Osama is totally out of contact with all members of the family.
Does that make them guilty of anything? Not by itself. But then again, it's you making all the huge leaps.